9
   

Will the UN get involved in Syria?

 
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Jun, 2012 07:46 pm
@cicerone imposter,
OK, but you asked me what the UN should be doing do now.
I assumed, because you posted this comment along with your question, that you agreed with the British ambassador that enough was not being done:
Quote:

..Britain's UN ambassador Mark Lyall-Grant said that the council statement, while important, was not enough.

"Over the next two days, the Security Council will be meeting again to discuss in more detail what steps need to be taken," he told reporters.

That's why I asked you the same question. What should the UN do now?
Or what else, given its charter, can it do?
Neither of us disagrees with the imposition of sanctions against Syria.
But is there any other UN action that you think would be appropriate right now?




cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Jun, 2012 08:32 pm
@msolga,
As I've said many times before, there isn't "anything" the UN can do. Their attempts at talking has no influence or "power" behind it. They're a 98 lb weakling trying to "talk" Asaad into a peace. It's not going to happen by UN actions. It has to happen by the international community cooperating to demand a sanction/embargo against Syria.
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Jun, 2012 09:12 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
As I've said many times before, there isn't "anything" the UN can do.

About Syria or about anything & everything, c.i.?
The UN could have averted the unnecessary & disastrous Iraq invasion if some it's member nations had heeded it's advice at the time & had not taken matters in their own hands over WMD fiasco. Consider that.
Quote:
Their attempts at talking has no influence or "power" behind it. They're a 98 lb weakling trying to "talk" Asaad into a peace.

You haven't been willing to discuss any charter changes, or anything else for that matter, which might actually give the UN more real power, though.
You seem to assume that things will always remain as they are now.
You seem to want the UN to fail.
Quote:
It's not going to happen by UN actions.

It may not happen with any other actions, either, given the bloody-mindedness of Assad & his government.
Quote:
It has to happen by the international community cooperating to demand a sanction/embargo against Syria.

But those very same members of the international community are members of the UN! They could be cooperating with each other inside the UN, too. They are already cooperating with each other in the UN. The problem is with the nations who refuse to cooperate ... & they will continue to refuse to cooperate both inside & outside the UN. You can't blame the UN for their self-interested bloody-mindedness .... but you might at least consider ways of reforming the UN charter so their influence on the UN's ability to act is lessened.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Jun, 2012 09:24 pm
@msolga,
That's about how much influence the UN has in today's world.
They could probably help some countries with food and health issues, but not much when it concerns countries like Syria.

The UN weapons inspectors were in Iraq when GW Bush chased them out to start his war. Not much the UN could have done. Stay and die by our bombing or leave.

The reason I'm not ready to talk about "charter change," is because it doesn't change what makes them powerless today.

Syria is almost next door to Europe, but they're not doing anything either. Why should the US get involved in an intractable war that will cost US lives and treasure? Our economy is also hurting.

One more very important thing; democracy must come from within.



There's a world of difference between being a member of the UN vs what the community of nations can do to stop people like the leader of Syria. The UN can't involve the military of all the countries who are members. Individual members must "volunteer" to get involved. None seem forthcoming.

msolga
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Jun, 2012 09:55 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
That's about how much influence the UN has in today's world.

There's nothing I can say which would change your mind, c.i.
You are unwilling to even consider things could ever be different, but others who want a more effective global body are.
That's basically what it boils down to.

Yes, I'm well aware of why the UN failed to stop the Iraq debacle ... but if some UN member nations (especially powerful ones) are determined to have their own way (& create a war) there's nothing the other member countries can effectively do to stop them. There was nothing all of us who marched on the streets in our millions in opposition to the planned invasion could do to change Bush & co's decision, either.

Quote:
The reason I'm not ready to talk about "charter change," is because it doesn't change what makes them powerless today.

Obviously I & those pushing for UN reform disagree with you on that.
Or are at least willing to try to make the organization more effective than it has been.

Quote:
Syria is almost next door to Europe, but they're not doing anything either. Why should the US get involved in an intractable war that will cost US lives and treasure? Our economy is also hurting.

Who has suggested that the US become involved in a war in Syria?
Certainly not me!
God forbid!
Escalate what could well become a civil war into another full scale war?
That would most likely be an even bigger disaster for Syrian civilians than their current circumstances. I honestly don't think the world has much stomach for any more Iraqs or Afghanistans.

Quote:
There's a world of difference between being a member of the UN vs what the community of nations can do to stop people like the leader of Syria. The UN can't involve the military of all the countries who are members. Individual members must "volunteer" to get involved. None seem forthcoming.

None have been asked to be forthcoming.
The UN has not called for any member countries to be involved in a Syrian war. It's charter is to attempt to find peaceful resolutions amongst its members. Alternatives to war.
But, obviously, when dealing with an Assad, that is no easy task.
It may even be an impossible task.


0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Jun, 2012 10:06 pm
Update on Syria from the ABC News today.

(Please note the warning about graphic content in the video included in the link to this report. It's distressing.)

Quote:

UN monitors arrive to gruesome scene of massacre
Updated June 09, 2012 13:49:40/ABC news

Related Story: UN warns Syria at brink of civil war
Related Story: Syria rebels told to fight back after new massacre
Related Story: Syria orders Western diplomats out
Related Story: Carnage in Syria as rebels abandon ceasefire
Video: WARNING - GRAPHIC CONTENT: UN monitors enter Syrian village of Qubair
Map: Syrian Arab Republic

UN monitors have arrived at the gruesome scene of a massacre in the Syrian village Qubair, where militia loyal to the government are said to have slaughtered at least 78 people on Wednesday.

The UN observers are trying to verify the details of the massacre, but were yesterday stopped from entering the village and were fired upon by small arms and turned back by both security forces and residents of the area.

Activists say government forces removed many of the bodies while the UN observers were being hindered from reaching the site.


The opposition has blamed the killings on militia loyal to president Bashar al-Assad, while the government has accused terrorists of the attacks.

Activists say army tanks shelled Kubeir before storming in with plainclothes gunmen, killing more than half of the village's 150 residents and burning many of their bodies.

The BBC's Paul Danahar, who is travelling with the main UN convoy, has described a hellish scene at the village.

He says houses in the area have been burnt out and body parts lie on the ground.

Danahar says he is sickened by what he has seen and the stench of burning flesh in the village is still strong.

"There is a big pile of congealed blood, there is a tablecloth that still has pieces of someone's brain attached to the side of it," he said.

"We can see that some of the houses have been burnt out - one of them looks to have an RPG hole blown out the side of it.

"There is no-one alive from this village to tell us what happened at the moment. We've been led up here by some nearby villagers, they say it was Shahiba - militia from another village that have come and done this.

Danahar says the village has been torched and it looks like there was some evidence of the massacre has been cleared away. ....<cont>


http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-06-09/un-monitors-arrive-to-grusome-scene-of-massacre/4061846
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Jun, 2012 10:23 pm
@msolga,
Bless those UN monitors in Syria.
What ghastly, dangerous job they have.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Jun, 2012 10:51 pm
@msolga,
The need to publicize the atrocities in Syria is necessary for the world community to act, but I'm afraid nobody is willing to be the first to commit their military in this conflict.

I'm sure most of the international governments are discussing what their options are, but I think they are gun-shy to get involved.
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Jun, 2012 10:59 pm
@cicerone imposter,
As I just said, c.i., I think military action would simply make the situation worse for civilians. If you check out the statistics on deaths in say, Afghanistan or Iraq, civilians suffered by far highest numbers of casualties.
It has nothing to do with being "gun shy", military action won't resolve the problem.
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Jun, 2012 11:34 pm
Update from Al Jazeera:

Quote:
Gun battles rage in streets of Damascus
Last Modified: 08 Jun 2012 20:11/Al Jazeera

Syrian army and opposition fighters clash in capital's Mezze neighbourhood, as monitors reach al-Qubeyr massacre site.

http://www.aljazeera.com/mritems/Images/2012/6/8//201268133942322580_20.jpg
Amateur video released by the Syrian opposition purports to show explosions in the Khaldiyeh area of Homs [AP]

Fierce gunfights between security forces and rebels have broken out on the streets of a neighbourhood in the Syrian capital, Damascus, residents said, as government troops battled to take back the rebel bastion of Khaldiyeh in the central city of Homs.

Residents of Damascus' Mezze district said they were hiding in their homes on Friday as gunfire crackled outside.

"The gunfire is so loud; I think some bullets could have hit the house. I'm afraid to go outside to see what is happening," one resident said.

Activists and Syrian state television said a car bomb exploded in the Qadsiya suburb of Damascus, killing at least two members of the security forces.

Syrian TV blamed the bomb on "terrorists," using the term it frequently uses to describe rebels fighting forces loyal to President Bashar al-Assad.

In the early stages of the 15-month-old uprising, Damascus remained firmly under government control as Assad's forces tried to crush opposition in other parts of the country.

But in recent months shooting and bombings have erupted in several neighbourhoods. ...<cont>

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2012/06/20126817510357285.html
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Jun, 2012 11:07 am
@msolga,
This is only one problem of getting involved in wars.

Quote:
Suicides Eclipse War Deaths for U.S. Troops

There have been 154 suicides among active-duty troops this year, a rate of nearly one death a day that is on pace to set a record annual high since the start of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
JTT
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 9 Jun, 2012 11:37 am
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
The need to publicize the atrocities in Syria is necessary for the world community to act,


Did you ever react like this to Reagan's slaughter of Nicaraguans, Ike's slaughter of Guatemalans, LBJ's slaughter of Vietnamese, Nixon's slaughter of Laotians/Cambodians, Nixon/Ford's slaughter of Indonesians, ...

Why is there always this great need to expose the atrocities of so many others, but never the atrocities of the USA? Especially when the others, even seen collectively, are mere pikers compared to the US. Especially when the others are often civil wars whereas the US's intent is simple greed, stealing the wealth of others?

Quote:
but I'm afraid nobody is willing to be the first to commit their military in this conflict.


Of course not, no great wealth to steal. The US [and others of course] will mouth all the platitudes, just to keep the propaganda stream pumped full, just to keep duping folks into thinking that the white hat guy is on it.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Jun, 2012 11:41 am
@cicerone imposter,
Gee, imagine that, CI expressing his concern about those of the invading horde rather than those who have suffered immeasurably more, the Iraqis and the Afghans.
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Jun, 2012 10:51 pm
Quote:
Amid rising violence, U.N. suspends Syria mission
June 16, 2012/ 6:21 am/ LA TIMES
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/.a/6a00d8341c630a53ef0176158a7d3b970c-600wi

BEIRUT -- The United Nations said Saturday it was suspending its observer mission in Syria because of escalating violence in the country, signaling a major setback in a U.N.-brokered effort to end violence in the strife-torn nation.

"U.N. observers will not be conducting patrols and will stay in their locations until further notice," Gen. Robert Mood, head of the observer mission, said in a statement.

Increasing violence "is limiting our ability to observe, verify, report as well as assist in local dialogue and stability projects," Mood said.


The suspension will be reviewed "on a daily basis," the Norwegian general said. "Operations will resume when we see the situation is fit for us to carry out our mandated activities." The observers will remain in place and are not being pulled out of Syria, the U.N. said.

The unarmed mission, begun six weeks ago, has had several close calls, including a number of incidents in which observer vehicles were shot at. At least two roadside bombs have also exploded near observer vehicles, the U.N. said. The U.N. has reported no injuries to its staffers.

In statements to the press on Friday, the general bemoaned what he called “a lack of willingness” by both sides in the conflict “to seek a peaceful transition.” The general added: “Instead there is a push toward advancing military positions.”

The escalating violence, Mood suggested Friday, could be imperiling the U.N. mission, which now includes almost 300 unarmed observers. The observers are part of the six-point peace plan crafted by U.N. special envoy Kofi Annan. Both sides have widely violated the plan, which calls for a cease-fire and pullback of government forces from populated areas, among other points.

U.N. officials must decide soon what to do with the observer mission, which involves monitors from more than 60 U.N. nations, the general said. Its current mandate expires July 20.

The observers’ job, Mood said, is becoming “increasingly risky.” Participating nations must weigh whether the risk level is getting too high, said Mood, who acknowledged “frustration” among the monitors about the continuing violence.

“We would like to see — last week, yesterday, not tomorrow or next week — a different situation, where those who have their fingers on the trigger, whoever they are, make the decision to take their fingers off the triggers and give the Syrian people a chance to move forward,” Mood told reporters in Damascus on Friday. ...<cont>


http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/world_now/2012/06/un-suspects-observer-mission-in-syria-due-to-violence.html
0 Replies
 
space007
 
  0  
Reply Thu 28 Jun, 2012 05:13 am
@cicerone imposter,
Sooner or later.
0 Replies
 
 

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