Reply Sat 23 Apr, 2011 03:12 pm
But there is no such thing as "death panels". We were promised. Someone has been lying to you.

http://spectator.org/archives/2011/04/22/ipab-is-an-acronym-for-death-p

Contemplating the 2012 election that can already be seen looming on the distant horizon, the President's advisors were no doubt hoping that the "death panel" debate was… well… dead. But Obama himself inadvertently resurrected it when, in response to Republican budget proposals, he claimed that Medicare costs will be kept under control by the Independent Payment Advisory Board (IPAB). Obamacare opponents have been screaming about this committee since it was first added to the "reform" bill. And, since that time, anyone with the temerity to call it by its proper name -- death panel -- has been vilified by the Democrats and the "news" media. Nonetheless, that's precisely what IPAB will be. Its sole purpose is to cut funding for some health care services seniors now take for granted. And those cuts will kill people.

 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Apr, 2011 08:12 pm
@Renaldo Dubois,
The biggest problem (though not the only problem) is this statement which is completely unsupported.

Quote:
those cuts will kill people.


It seems obvious to me that you can cut costs without killing people, and that a panel of well-educated experts acting without any conflicts of interest is the best way to make these judgments.

Now the irony here is that the conservatives are trying to cut all of Medicare, replacing it with payments to private insurance companies.

This is a worse choice because in this case the people making the decisions will be employees of corporations whose primary purpose is to make the biggest profit possible. If I could choose between unbiased experts or corporate bean counters as the people deciding my treatment, option one seems like a pretty obvious choice.

I thought everyone was in agreement that we should be cutting costs.

Renaldo Dubois
 
  -4  
Reply Sun 24 Apr, 2011 09:16 am
@maxdancona,
I don't want your panel of "experts" making judgements on my life. No thanks. I want to make MY own judgements on MY life.
JPB
 
  4  
Reply Sun 24 Apr, 2011 09:22 am
@Renaldo Dubois,
So do I. Which is why I'm in favor of the default position on health care intervention being changed to pre-written directives over the opposite. Currently, standard of care is to intervene at all cost unless there is a written directive stating otherwise. I'd like every adult to have a written directive stating their wishes. If you, as an adult, want society to keep you alive for as long as possible, then say so. If you want a panel to determine for you what they deem appropriate, then say so. If you want no extreme intervention, then say so. In the absence of a health care directive I'd like the default to be the later vs the former/current position. The evaluation of a panel of experts is a mid-level path that doesn't satisfy either one of us, but is a more centrist approach.
Renaldo Dubois
 
  -4  
Reply Sun 24 Apr, 2011 09:28 am
@JPB,
Here is my approach. Get government totally out of the health care business. That's my approach.
Cycloptichorn
 
  4  
Reply Sun 24 Apr, 2011 09:37 am
@Renaldo Dubois,
Renaldo Dubois wrote:

Here is my approach. Get government totally out of the health care business. That's my approach.


First, you have to stop taking their money, Hypocrite. I mean, you are on Medicare. Right?

Cycloptichorn
JPB
 
  4  
Reply Sun 24 Apr, 2011 09:53 am
@Renaldo Dubois,
Then I guess you're in favor of eliminating Medicare.
Renaldo Dubois
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 24 Apr, 2011 09:53 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Your post is a complete authentic glitterng straw man. Come back when you have a point.
0 Replies
 
Renaldo Dubois
 
  -4  
Reply Sun 24 Apr, 2011 09:54 am
@JPB,
Nope. People pay into it their entire lives. That does not give government the right to make life and death health care decisions on my behalf. The deal didn't include that until Obama took over. He broke it.
parados
 
  4  
Reply Sun 24 Apr, 2011 10:33 am
@Renaldo Dubois,
I'm curious what changes you think Obama made to Medicare that allowed the government to make health care decisions they didn't already make in 2008.




You won't be able to find any which makes your argument what?
Renaldo Dubois
 
  -3  
Reply Sun 24 Apr, 2011 10:48 am
@parados,
You need to read the OP at the top of the page.
0 Replies
 
LionTamerX
 
  4  
Reply Sun 24 Apr, 2011 10:56 am
@Renaldo Dubois,
Quote:
I don't want your panel of "experts" making judgements on my life. No thanks. I want to make MY own judgements on MY life.


So you don't want private health insurance either ? If you have health insurance, you have a death panel.
JPB
 
  3  
Reply Sun 24 Apr, 2011 11:09 am
@Renaldo Dubois,
Renaldo Dubois wrote:

Nope. People pay into it their entire lives. That does not give government the right to make life and death health care decisions on my behalf. The deal didn't include that until Obama took over. He broke it.


People pay into their insurance coverage before they're eligible for Medicare too. And, yet, insurance companies dictate what they'll pay for every day. You have no more control over your health care choices with insurance than you do with Medicare. You can purchase a policy that covers more for more premiums (or has a lower deductible) IF AND ONLY IF the insurance company agrees that you're a low risk, but even then the coverage you get is at their discretion.
Renaldo Dubois
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 24 Apr, 2011 11:15 am
@LionTamerX,
Depends on what kind of insurance you have. I still have a choice.
Renaldo Dubois
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 24 Apr, 2011 11:16 am
@JPB,
I certainly do have control. I can change my insurance. My choice.
JPB
 
  2  
Reply Sun 24 Apr, 2011 11:19 am
@Renaldo Dubois,
You can change your insurance IF and ONLY IF you're deemed an acceptable risk by the insurance company. Good luck with that if you have any pre-existing conditions or need anything other than catastrophic coverage. When was the last time you tried to purchase insurance on the open market?
Renaldo Dubois
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 24 Apr, 2011 11:22 am
@JPB,
If this and if that and if, if, if. Government running my health care is not what I want nor is it what millions of other Americans want. You all keep trying to convince us, but it's pretty hard to do when you keep telling us we're all stupid.
LionTamerX
 
  2  
Reply Sun 24 Apr, 2011 11:24 am
@Renaldo Dubois,
Quote:
Depends on what kind of insurance you have. I still have a choice.

Actually, it depends on a combination of how healthy you are, and how lucky you are. If you get too sick and costly, your ass is getting kicked to the curb.
JPB
 
  3  
Reply Sun 24 Apr, 2011 11:27 am
@Renaldo Dubois,
The government is already running your health care if you're on Medicare. The insurance companies are already running your health care if you're covered by insurance. If you're uninsured and not on a government program you either don't get health care or you get your health care via the "show up at the ER and they can't turn you away" program, which means that society is footing the bill through increased premiums and costs for everyone else. Those are the only options (unless you're independently wealthy, of course and can pay for all your needs out of pocket).

What Americans want? It seems like the typical American wants all the health care they can get without thinking about its cost.
Renaldo Dubois
 
  0  
Reply Sun 24 Apr, 2011 11:41 am
@LionTamerX,
File bankruptcy. Happens every day in America. God bless America for a wonderful system.
 

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