Working Moms and Dads - what is an acceptable expectation for time away from the job...

@ehBeth,

I love it!

The same lab that had the high-demand holiday time off problem had a problem with unplanned absences. In this setting, unplanned absences put a huge burden on the rest of the staff. At the time we were allowed 10 sick days/year and a certain number of vacation days based on longevity. Sick days did not carry over year to year. We had one employee who called in sick every fifth Friday and anther one who would "spike a fever" and go home sick whenever the workload for the day was surprisingly high. We solved that problem by eliminating sick time and vacation time in favor of paid time off. You could bank up to a year's time, sell back up to two weeks per year (done right before the holidays so folks could sell unused leave for Christmas shopping if they chose), or take every day you had coming to you. Unplanned absences almost became a thing of the past. Our sick-leave abusers didn't feel they were going to lose anything by not taking all their sick time, and everyone got extra days to play with.

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@chai2,

I can and do work from home - as I need to. But that normally does not have to do with taking the kids anywhere. What I had asked at one time was to let me take my lunch at 3:00 each day - so I could go pick them up from the bus and let them be doing their homework while I finished working at home. That would be awesome - they agreed at first - but I think the whole "if she does it - everyone will want to do it" came up. Which I absolutely understand. But man - that would have been a HUGE help when it comes to expense.

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@mismi,

Quote:

There are still issues that working parents have to deal with that people who don't have children don't have to. Child care - back to that -

What are some options for after care that are less expensive than what is offered in after school care programs? What about summers? Last summer I had friends and family keeping them because I didn't get them signed up for things in time...now I am looking at the costs and realize there is no sense in my working since everything I make and then some will have to go toward keeping them somewhere. My only option is to leave this job and find something that will let me stay home again in the summers. Not sure about that. Will have to ask about this - I am not the only one experiencing these issues - which is why the focus group has been set up.

Right. That's a real issue. Some employers are hard-asses and take a "not my problem" approach while others offer everything from childcare subsidies to on-site programs. It really comes down to how much your employer is willing to get involved in the needs of their employees with respect to family issues. Do you have a human resources department? Maybe someone there has already researched summer and after-school care options. Like you said, you can't be the only person who is struggling with figuring out the logistics and costs of childcare.

It sounds like you have an employer who falls on the family-friendly side of the spectrum. You can't expect them to have all the answers for you, but it doesn't hurt to ask for guidance on how to make it all work.

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@mismi,

mismi wrote:

I can and do work from home - as I need to. But that normally does not have to do with taking the kids anywhere. What I had asked at one time was to let me take my lunch at 3:00 each day - so I could go pick them up from the bus and let them be doing their homework while I finished working at home. That would be awesome - they agreed at first - but I think the whole "if she does it - everyone will want to do it" came up. Which I absolutely understand. But man - that would have been a HUGE help when it comes to expense.

What would be the problem with everyone taking their lunch at 3pm?

Do you have to stagger your lunches or something?

Or is it that you would leave a workplace, pick up the kids, and continue to work at home, where they might feel you're not supervised?

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@mismi,

The no to moving lunches around so people could leave early came as a result of it being perceived as 'thin edge of the wedge'.

"People will think they can work whatever hours they want".

I think this come up from an employee in every job I've had over the past nearly 30 years. I'll work through lunch and leave early. mmm no.

I get a bit of a hairy eyeball from my v.p. every now and then because I like to come in early and I take a late lunch. It means I have a short afternoon. I think if she could figure out how to make me go for early lunch so her inner sense of balance could be restored she'd do it.

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@chai2,

chai2 wrote:

....We ALL have **** we want to do/have to do besides our work. The vast majority of people work the bulk of it around their work obligations. Sometimes we can't and we take time off of work. We make it up somehow, or we don't and live with the consequences of less money.

<snip>

The fact it's about a kid doesn't play into it.

yup.

I think you'd have better luck with people buying in if you were presenting ideas that would benefit all employees. You want the non-parents on your side - actively.

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@ehBeth,

Show up late and tell you'll leave an hour early to make up for it. You never know what will work.

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@ehBeth,

ehBeth wrote:

The no to moving lunches around so people could leave early came as a result of it being perceived as 'thin edge of the wedge'.

"People will think they can work whatever hours they want".

The reason I got was that it was against labour laws to work through your breaks and lunch and leave early - unions really frown on that. But in non-union environments, they're generally more lenient - a person who takes a coffee break often takes longer than the time allotted (15 min) - coming and going, to-ing and fro-ing... plus, if you drink your coffee/tea at your desk, you're up for a minute to get it, then back at work.

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@ehBeth,

It also opens up the risk of not having coverage during all the hours that the company is open for business. If there are posted office hours for customers/clients then the office has to be covered during those hours. Allowing everyone to work through lunch and leave an hour early could mean having to stagger start and stop times to ensure adequate coverage. It's generally easier to say no.

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@JPB,

Yes. With employer hat on, it's much easier to just think through rules carefully and then enforce them. I learned this the hard way early on in my career -- someone would ask for something, I'd consider it, someone else would ask for something, I'd consider that, and then suddenly way too much of my time was being taken up by dealing with employee requests and then dealing with fallout thereof (if I made a decision they disagreed with, or if they thought I was favoring one employee over another...)

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@Mame,

Mame wrote:

The reason I got was that it was against labour laws to work through your breaks and lunch and leave early - unions really frown on that. But in non-union environments, they're generally more lenient - a person who takes a coffee break often takes longer than the time allotted (15 min) - coming and going, to-ing and fro-ing... plus, if you drink your coffee/tea at your desk, you're up for a minute to get it, then back at work.

Unfortunately this also applies to non-union labor laws and I just found
out the hard way through mediation at the labor commissioner. You cannot use your lunch hours to either leave early or move to a later hour in the
afternoon. After a minimum of 4 to 5 hours, every employee should be given a 30 min meal time break.

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@CalamityJane,

Right! I remember that.

Is that just California? (I was in CA too when I ran into it.)

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@mismi,

mismi, if you have additional space in the house, get an au pair to help you
with the boys. www.aupair.com

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@JPB,

JPB wrote:

Allowing everyone to work through lunch and leave an hour early could mean having to stagger start and stop times to ensure adequate coverage.

that was a particular joy of the place where we signed in/out.

As long as you worked 4 of the 5 (9 a.m. to 2 p.m.) core hours, the rest of your day's scheduling was up to you. You did have to maintain your schedule for at least two weeks at a time, but they were quite flexible. Not a lot of employers permit scheduling like that.

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@sozobe,

sozobe wrote:

Right! I remember that.

Is that just California? (I was in CA too when I ran into it.)

It's not only in CA this way, but I guess we have more disgruntled employees. I thought I had covered everything - even having the employee sign a waiver - but in the end the labor laws were on her side. I've safeguarded myself now, but it's never bullet proof.

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@sozobe,

It isn't a federal requirement, but 19 states have lunch and/or break laws. AL isn't one of them.

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@ehBeth,

I love that kind of flexibility. I think you find more of that in smaller companies.

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@mismi,

Hi mismi! I haven't seen you around much lately and now I know why.

Does your town/city have a Boys and Girls Club? The membership at the one near our house if $5. per year. They have a bus that picks the kids up at the school and they say open until I think 6 o'clock. It works a little different in the summers - you sign up for activities - it's a bit more expensive (like, maybe $15 per activity and they need a couple of activities to get through a typical adult work day, each activity would last for a week or two) but not as outrageous as childcare.

I don't know the nature of the work that you do but back when I had my business many of the parents I employed would trade of hours in a kind of "job share" type thing. I didn't care as long as all the work was done and nobody ran up overtime because of it.

They also shared childcare with each other based on the hours or days that they worked. I always tried to facilitate that with the way I scheduled people.

Keeping your staff happy is job number one; a person's family should always be more important than their job. I applaud your employer for looking for solutions instead of making niggardly little rules that don't benefit anyone, themselves least of all.

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@sozobe,

Thanks Soz -

I have tried to reply to you at least three times - and each time, I end up deleting it because it is so long and much too involved.

I started working again because my husband lost his job, Thanksgiving of 2009. He got another job but he is making much less than we did before. My job doesn't even cover the amount we lost when he started working at the new job. So needless to say we have cut back tremendously. The boys have places they can go through the graciousness of family and friends. I am always searching for a way to do it better and make it easier for those around me as well as myself. Which is why I am exploring as many avenues as I can find.

The focus group was started by a co-worker wanting to start a family. She has questions she wants concrete answers to. In researching and through many of the comments here as well as a nice heart to heart with our VP this morning, I have since come to the conclusion that this company is small enough that concrete is not going to be in her best interest - or mine for that matter. We decided that we need to jot the issues down and start working toward a standard guideline when we get so big that we cannot be as flexible as we are now. But for now - this issue is laid to rest. I have so appreciated all of the truthful answers given here. All of it has given me such a great scope to think about and use for when we need to be more concrete in our standards.

I think that the fact that we can be flexible will be in my co-workers best interest as she starts her family. If we had to write it down - I am afraid we would lose the flexibility that we already have. The key to remember in the requests when we make to leave early or work from home should be as JPB said - what is the burden on those around us, and am I taking advantage of a situation? Chai - your comments also helped in firming this up.

I am very lucky to work here. I love the people - all are so accessible and helpful. It is very much like a little family!

Thank you all for your help!

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@boomerang,

Hey there Boomer!

Yeah - working has greatly cut into my social life!

I looked to see if there was a Boys and Girls club - we live in the county and the nearest one is an hour away. It doesn't look like there is anything closer. I sure do appreciate the suggestion though.

I think my job is much like you have said - they are pretty flexible considering all I have read about other places of business. I cannot complain one little bit! (of course I CAN - but I will try not to!)

I really do appreciate all of the input. Huge help in getting a firmer understanding of what works for now and what we will have to look into for the future.

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