Bonds Convicted

Also, we are speaking skill. Men are typically bigger and stronger so in baseball, etc. they typically are able to run faster, hit a ball further, etc. out of pure physical strength. Rather than pure skill.

One thing I've noticed for the most part about women in sports - they tend to try to perfect their skill - how they move, swing, jump, - actual technique. Whereas men for the most part focus on increasing strength and more physically improvements. Maybe one reason why men sports see more in the use of performance enhancing drugs.

Most likely it is illegal because of how bad it actually is for your health and all the damage it does to your body.

It's illegal b/c the drugs are actually very harmful to your body in a lot of ways, and use of them as a performance enhancer leads to addiction and eventually acute organ failure.

It's not easy to get a scrip for them, either - you usually have to have some sort of medical condition.

Let's be honest about what happened here - Bonds contracted a company to produce a type of steroid that wouldn't be detectable on tests and proceeded to use those drugs for years. This caused significant changes to his physiology and made him a much more effective hitter of home runs, which is exciting for fans. But, it simultaneously harmed his body and made him a shitty outfielder. He then was caught as part of a criminal investigation that rounded up people who were using the drug company, lied about it to investigators, lied again in front of Congress.

None of this was a mistake or accident on his part. He purposefully enacted a plan to cheat the game by using illegal means, and then he lied to cover it up. I have no sympathy for him whatsoever and I hope that he does go to prison for it.

Cycloptichorn

Once again, I disagree with this statement completely. There are any number of sports where men have achieved heights of skill mastery that have little to do with overall physical strength.

For example, tennis. Both men and women play competitively, but there is no doubt - in anyone's mind - that Federer is the most skilled player in the world, bar none. He can do things with the ball that nobody else can do. No woman can match his control level.

There are examples of this on pretty much every level of sporting activity. I'm not saying that women are worse at sports - they are not - but the proposition that they are somehow more interested in skill, and men are more interested in brute strength, doesn't hold up under examination.

Cycloptichorn

Cyclo, You can disagree all you want; the fact of the matter is that men's sports are built on muscle, height, and strength.

Seeing as women and men typically play the same sports in America, it's fair to say that women's sports are also built on muscle, height, and strength.

Cycloptichorn

This is why I said "for the most part" - there are always exceptions to the rule.

Recently watching the women's basketball - there were a few who played purely physically, but most of played skillfully with incredible ball handling and passes. Not that men do not do this, but more women focus on perfecting the skill. Some men focus on perfecting the skill, but more play with strength and physicalness.

The answer is a resounding no. This is a total misuse of government powers.

But you miss the most important aspect; women are built differently. They are usually much shorter, less muscle, and less weight. That's why the "level playing field" is the important aspect of women and men's sports.

We're not denying there are exceptions, but generally speaking.

I love roger Federer, but that's a wee bit of a bold statement (NO doubt- in ANYONE's mind?) . A little Latino guy named Nadal (currently ranked number 1 and ranked that way for much of the last 3 years) has provided some evidence that would at least make a counter argument to this. I would tend to agree with your assertion that Federer is the best men's player all things considered, but there's certainly no way to reasonably assert that "everyone knows who's most skilled".

Nadal has no greater technical skill than Federer. No real fan of tennis would take your position. However, Nadal has two things going for him - 1, he's got tremendous physical strength, and 2, he's left-handed. That's a much bigger deal than you think, because many of Federer's 'great shots' are so great because the 90% of our population who is right-handed can't possibly hope to reach them in time.

I would also point out that Nadal has tremendous success playing on Clay, in large part because it is a leveler. The clay surface slows the ball and kills some of the spin, so Federer's best shots simply don't have as much oomph as they do on hardcourt. Federer does much better against Nadal on other court surfaces.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federer%E2%80%93Nadal_rivalry#Results_on_each_court_surface

I repeat: amongst committed tennis fans and analysts, there is no doubt that Federer is the most technically skilled player in the world. This isn't to say that he always wins - he doesn't. But he can do things with the tennis ball that nobody else can, which at the end of the day is the real definition of skill. And to circle back around to the discussion of skill in men vs. women, there's not a woman player out there that could hope to match the skill and precision of either Federer or Nadal.

Cycloptichorn

BTW, looking back at baseball in the '60s, Jim Bouton, the former Yankee and best-selling author of 'Ball Four' blew the lid off the pristine baseball mystique. What he did was highlight drug-use in the early to mid-'60s when he wrote about the use of greenies and amphetamines. That was the beginning of PEDs. There were often back-to-back games or west-to-east coast latenight flights that were very exhausitng. He spoke openly of the rampant use of amphetamines to keep the players energy levels up.

PEDs have been used for at least 4 (almost 5) decades in baseball. Yes, they aren't steroids which are a lot more dangerous but they also tilt the playing-field on behalf of the team whose players used them.

also, as far as why sahould non-fans care....here's one that msot people who aren't close followers of sport don't know. Baseball has a grandfatherwed tax-free clause as far as taxation rgulations. That privilege can been put into jeopardy.

So you need to understand that there are some added far-reaching tax implications that causes Feds to be looking up their poop-shoot.
Let me see if I can find the link to this.

Here's what I was previously referring. This is the Fed's reason why there's all kinds of Federal concern and interest in pursuing MLB in a court of law. This relates to Sherman Anti-trust laws. This exclusion from this law protects the ONLY the MLB which has this grandfathered exclsuion that releases and excludes them:

"Baseball's exemption from antitrust laws--which prohibit actions that unreasonably restrain competition--stems from a 1922 Supreme Court decision in which the Court ruled that antitrust law did not apply to baseball. The rationale was that baseball games were local affairs, not interstate commerce. The Supreme Court upheld the antitrust exemption twice, first in 1953 and again in the famous 1972 case in which Curt Flood sued Bowie Kuhn in his attempt to have the reserve clause declared illegal and have himself declared a free agent.

After the 1975 Andy Messersmith arbitration ruling in which the reserve clause was deemed to cover one, and only one, season, Major League Baseball and the Players Association eventually agreed on a structure for free agency, but the antitrust exemption remained. The Supreme Court has made it clear that it would not overturn the exemption, insisting that only Congress could do so.

Baseball is the only major sport that has an exemption from antitrust law. Whenever Major League Baseball is involved in a major controversy, Congress starts talking about revoking the exemption. This talk reached a fever pitch during the 1994-95 players' strike, but nothing happened. After that labor war, MLB and the Players Association agreed to lobby Congress for a limited repeal of the exemption where labor matters are concerned."

Please ignore my tax-free reference. MLB has no tax free exemption.

A little
Nadal is 6 ft 1 in
Latino
he's from Spain and he's white
named Nadal
Yeay!!! You got 1 out of 3 right!!

What is this? Who said anything about his race? Latinos can be white or not. He never stated a thing about his race.

There should be a decision to toss out all records for a specific period of time, maybe beginning when with the year in which performance enhancing drugs made an appearance on the scene, and begin anew, with very strong drug testing in place. No excuses (boohoo, I ate a sesame bagel.....).

What is this is you never saw a map? Latinos are from Latin America Europeans are from Europe.

Spain is in Europe. Freaking out about race? There's a lot of it going around in this forum, why?

I could support that.

How about Pete Rose? Same deal?