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edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Apr, 2011 05:57 pm
I knew this thread would likely attract the sorts that like to pile on when a Democrat is being criticised. Despite my criticisms of the president, he stands head and shoulders above any prominent Republican I could call to mind.
ossobuco
 
  0  
Reply Sat 16 Apr, 2011 06:13 pm
@edgarblythe,
I know more about his relative (uncle? father? grandfather?) Edmund Bacon, author of Design of Cities, one of my all time favorite books.

Which is neither here nor there.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Apr, 2011 06:19 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
On that I disagree. If Obama is a lefty I'm a monkey's uncle, to use an old phrase. Or, aunt. He fits, to me, well within the sphere that serious lefties have considered "liberal", as in pale shadow. So, that he seems lefty to you shows me how far right you may be. (I'm not saying I do take you as far right; that is just explaining a left point of view.)

I think of myself as middle re the rest of the world, and as somewhat left here in the US, some of the time. But, as has been said many times before on a2k, the left right dichotomy is growing to be unuseful.
snood
 
  2  
Reply Sat 16 Apr, 2011 06:26 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:

Nothing wrong with it Snood, but that's not what she said.

She said there was nothing wrong with voting for Obama because he was black, because there was a national wrong to redress.

Is that why you voted for Obama?

It certainly had nothing to do with my not voting for him.

Of course very many of the people who voted for Obama would have voted for him if was white, simply because he was the Democrat's candidate, but I don't think that was necessarily the case for voters in the Democratic primaries.



Would it kill you to admit there are good qualities in the man we might have voted for?
Renaldo Dubois
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 16 Apr, 2011 06:37 pm
@edgarblythe,
That's quite a partisan statement. Judging Presidents by what party they are in is a waste of time. A president should be judged on how well he does his job like everyone else is.
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Sat 16 Apr, 2011 07:52 pm
@Renaldo Dubois,
That would only be true if the Republicans were working to better the nation than to turn it over to big business and beggar the middle and poor classes.
plainoldme
 
  0  
Reply Sat 16 Apr, 2011 08:56 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Who is this alleged lefty in the WH?
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 16 Apr, 2011 08:57 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
Blacks deserved the presidency before women because black men got the vote before women did?


That's not what I wrote. Go back a read with comprehension.
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  0  
Reply Sat 16 Apr, 2011 08:58 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
ou vote for the person who you believe can best serve the nation, and not for the candidate who is a member of an identity group whose turn you think it is.


I vote against the person who will do the most harm to the nation.
plainoldme
 
  0  
Reply Sat 16 Apr, 2011 09:01 pm
@edgarblythe,
What we see here is people like you and I who voted for Obama can and do criticize him. The right never seems to be able to criticize their crew.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  3  
Reply Sun 17 Apr, 2011 09:09 am
@plainoldme,
Quote:
I now have a son in Afghanistan.


You and I dont agree on anything, but on this we will agree.
I hope he comes home in one piece, and that he stays safe.

You dont say where he is or what he is doing, but after having been there I know that the entire country is a dangerous place.
My best wishes to him and my wife and I will pray for his safe return.

Please pass along my best wishes to him.
Renaldo Dubois
 
  -3  
Reply Sun 17 Apr, 2011 09:18 am
@edgarblythe,
Looks to me someone has to stop the spending. We can't afford any more "hope and change". business has nothing to do with the left spending us all into bankruptcy. The Federal government is too big. Enough is enough.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Sun 17 Apr, 2011 09:28 am
Taking away the rich people's right to be taxed and taking away everything from the only taxpayers in the nation makes no sense at all. Regulating and taxing businesses is the first needed step to getting on track. Cutting the military, CIA and the like, along with halting so many military adventures, is another step. There are many ways to work at it without throwing the aged and the middle and poor classes to the wolves.
Renaldo Dubois
 
  -3  
Reply Sun 17 Apr, 2011 10:12 am
@edgarblythe,
The rich pay their taxes. The wealthy pay the majority of taxes in America. We have one of the highest corporate taxes on the planet. How much is enough for the left? You all sound greedy to me.
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Apr, 2011 10:48 am
Good day to yall. We had a rough night here in central Virginia. Torrential rain and high winds. Flash floods killed several people near Charlottesville but most of the fatalities happened in coastal VA and NC where they had numerous tornadoes. Thanks to those of you who pmed me. I appreciate you thinking of me.
Today is sunny and mild.
Rasmussen released a poll on Friday that is somewhat interesting, I guess. People were asked this question: "I am going to read you a list of issues. Tell me whether or not you would consider the issue to be Very Important."
The Economy: 76% said very important vs (86% in February). The 76% is the lowest since 5/2008).
Health Care: 63% vs (72%). That is the lowest since 3/10.
Taxes: 59%. This is the 1st time since 2/10 that taxes made it into the top 3. On followup, most people felt that we are overtaxed and that any proposal to raise taxes should be put to a national vote.
Government Ethics and Accountability: 58%
Social Security: 57%
Education: 55% vs (65%) That is kind of a new low
Immigration: 52% vs (62%
National Security: 44%
Afghanistan: 32%
Iraq: 29%. That is down from 60% in mid-2008.

The last 2 trouble me as a Vietnam vet. I was there when it was becoming clear that we were not winning. The brother of one of my employees leaves this weekend for Afghan and the son of an A2Ker heads off also. Mysteryman, who served there, correctly notes that no place is really safe.
Young men and women will die or will be physically/mentally wounded. But the majority of Americans don't consider that to be "very important."


edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Apr, 2011 11:39 am
@Renaldo Dubois,
The rich get around taxes and GE doesn't pay even 2 Cents
plainoldme
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 17 Apr, 2011 11:41 am
@mysteryman,
Thank you so much.

He is in Kandahar where he a computer technician. I know that desk people go out on patrol. He and his wife dropped out of college and want to return and to buy a house. He saw the Army as a way to go back to school and get away from dead end jobs.
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Sun 17 Apr, 2011 11:42 am
@realjohnboy,
I am happy to know you are okay, rjb. I came on here just now to see how you, the Quinneys and farmerman did in the storm. And any members I did not mention.
0 Replies
 
revelette
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 17 Apr, 2011 11:43 am
@Renaldo Dubois,
Super rich see federal taxes drop dramatically

As millions of procrastinators scramble to meet Monday's tax filing deadline, ponder this: The super rich pay a lot less taxes than they did a couple of decades ago, and nearly half of U.S. households pay no income taxes at all.

The Internal Revenue Service tracks the tax returns with the 400 highest adjusted gross incomes each year. The average income on those returns in 2007, the latest year for IRS data, was nearly $345 million. Their average federal income tax rate was 17 percent, down from 26 percent in 1992.

Over the same period, the average federal income tax rate for all taxpayers declined to 9.3 percent from 9.9 percent.

The top income tax rate is 35 percent, so how can people who make so much pay so little in taxes? The nation's tax laws are packed with breaks for people at every income level. There are breaks for having children, paying a mortgage, going to college, and even for paying other taxes. Plus, the top rate on capital gains is only 15 percent.

There are so many breaks that 45 percent of U.S. households will pay no federal income tax for 2010, according to estimates by the Tax Policy Center, a Washington think tank.

"It's the fact that we are using the tax code both to collect revenue, which is its primary purpose, and to deliver these spending benefits that we run into the situation where so many people are paying no taxes," said Roberton Williams, a senior fellow at the center, which generated the estimate of people who pay no income taxes.

The sheer volume of credits, deductions and exemptions has both Democrats and Republicans calling for tax laws to be overhauled. House Republicans want to eliminate breaks to pay for lower overall rates, reducing the top tax rate from 35 percent to 25 percent. Republicans oppose raising taxes, but they argue that a more efficient tax code would increase economic activity, generating additional tax revenue.

President Barack Obama said last week he wants to do away with tax breaks to lower the rates and to reduce government borrowing. Obama's proposal would result in $1 trillion in tax increases over the next 12 years. Neither proposal included many details, putting off hard choices about which tax breaks to eliminate.

In all, the tax code is filled with a total of $1.1 trillion in credits, deductions and exemptions, an average of about $8,000 per taxpayer, according to an analysis by the National Taxpayer Advocate, an independent watchdog within the IRS.

More than half of the nation's tax revenue came from the top 10 percent of earners in 2007. More than 44 percent came from the top 5 percent. Still, the wealthy have access to much more lucrative tax breaks than people with lower incomes.

Obama wants the wealthy to pay so "the amount of taxes you pay isn't determined by what kind of accountant you can afford."

Eric Schoenberg says to sign him up for paying higher taxes. Schoenberg, who inherited money and has a healthy portfolio from his days as an investment banker, has joined a group of other wealthy Americans called United for a Fair Economy. Their goal: Raise taxes on rich people like themselves.

Shoenberg, who now teaches a business class at Columbia University, said his income is usually "north of half a million a year." But 2009 was a bad year for investments, so his income dropped to a little over $200,000. His federal income tax bill was a little more than $2,000.

"I simply point out to people, 'Do you think this is reasonable, that somebody in my circumstances should only be paying 1 percent of their income in tax?'" Schoenberg said.

Sen. Orrin Hatch of Utah, the top Republican on the Senate Finance Committee, said he has a solution for rich people who want to pay more in taxes: Write a check to the IRS. There's nothing stopping you.

"There's still time before the filing deadline for them to give Uncle Sam some more money," Hatch said.

Schoenberg said Hatch's suggestion misses the point.

"This voluntary idea clearly represents a mindset that basically pretends there's no such things as collective goods that we produce," Schoenberg said. "Are you going to let people volunteer to build the road system? Are you going to let them volunteer to pay for education?"

The law is packed with tax breaks that help narrow special interests. But many of the biggest tax breaks benefit millions of American families at just about every income level, making them difficult for politicians to touch.

The vast majority of those who escape federal income taxes have low and medium incomes, and most of them pay other taxes, including Social Security and Medicare taxes, property taxes and retail sales taxes.

The share of people paying no federal income tax has dropped slightly the past two years. It was 47 percent for 2009. The main difference for 2010 was the expiration of a tax break that exempted the first $2,400 of unemployment benefits from taxation, Williams said.

In 2009, nearly 35 million taxpayers got a tax break for paying interest on their home mortgages, and nearly 36 million taxpayers took the $1,000-per-child tax credit. About 41 million households reduced their federal income taxes by deducting state and local income and sales taxes from their taxable income.

About 36 million families cut their taxes by nearly $35 billion by deducting charitable donations, and 28 million taxpayers saved a total of $24 billion because their income from Social Security and railroad pensions was untaxed.

"As a matter of policy, there would be a lot of ways to save money and actually make these things work better," said Leonard Burman, a public affairs professor at Syracuse University. "As a matter of politics, it's really, really difficult."
0 Replies
 
 

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