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Should prisoners have the right to vote?

 
 
Mame
 
  0  
Reply Fri 1 Apr, 2011 09:20 pm
Back to the question - Should prisoners have the right to vote? Certainly not. Why not? You transgress the laws, you are removed from society. If you're removed from society, you don't get a say.
parados
 
  2  
Reply Fri 1 Apr, 2011 09:35 pm
@Mame,
Should those that are returned to society be able to vote?
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 Apr, 2011 09:36 pm
@Mame,
Quote:
Certainly not. Why not? You transgress the laws, you are removed from society. If you're removed from society, you don't get a say.


Strange that such simple and clear logic in beyond the ability of some of us to understand.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 Apr, 2011 09:39 pm
@parados,
Quote:
Should those that are returned to society be able to vote?


For myself after enough time had pass that we can be fairly sure that the person is not just passing through society on his or her way to another prison sentence the answer is yes.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  2  
Reply Fri 1 Apr, 2011 09:40 pm
@Mame,
Mame wrote:

Back to the question - Should prisoners have the right to vote? Certainly not. Why not? You transgress the laws, you are removed from society. If you're removed from society, you don't get a say.

So it is OK for a society to use the criminal justice system to control politics by criminalizing opposing viewpoints?

I'm sure you can think of plenty examples without me having to tell you about them.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 Apr, 2011 09:44 pm
@parados,
Quote:
So it is OK for a society to use the criminal justice system to control politics by criminalizing opposing viewpoints?


Would you care to give examples of this under the US or the majors European justice systems?

Plenty of examples?

The word that come to mind is bullshit for western justice systems.
RABEL222
 
  2  
Reply Fri 1 Apr, 2011 10:40 pm
@BillRM,
Once they pay their debt to society they should have the right to vote untill they go back to prison.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 Apr, 2011 12:56 am
@RABEL222,
Quote:
Once they pay their debt to society they should have the right to vote untill they go back to prison.


That is your opinion not mine or a numbers of states in the US for that matter.

Side note would you also grant them the civil right of owning firearms as soon as they walk out of prison?

How about allowing them to hold licenses where the health and safety of the public is placed in their hands would you allow that right as soon as they walk out of prison or not?
0 Replies
 
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 Apr, 2011 03:28 am
@BillRM,
...let me put it in other terms, are n´t they American citizens ? Are n´t they living in American soil and using American resources and working in America ? How is it that their voting relates with the "quality" of the elections ???
And while on that subject what exactly are the inmate rights that you approve with justification ? Why X and not Y ? because as an European, to where I stand you seam to think they probably should have none...

So far you and your pals have been around the subject and not into the heart of the matter... and another subject that beats my comprehension are death sentences...

...as for the firearms stuff, oh dear...nobody should be able to carry firearms but the police or the military ! Rolling Eyes
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 Apr, 2011 04:06 am
@Fil Albuquerque,
Prisons are not Black Holes...and even Black Holes are part of this Universe !
0 Replies
 
saab
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 Apr, 2011 04:10 am
Great Britain has the tradition that prisoners have no right to vote. Sentenced prisoners were originally denied the right to take part in ballots under the Forfeiture Act 1870, and the ban was retained in the Representation of the People Act 1983. Prisoners on remand awaiting trial, fine defaulters and people jailed for contempt of court can vote.
The ban could be retained for murderers and others serving life sentences and that judges may be given responsibility for deciding which criminals should be allowed to vote when they are sentenced.

An exclusive ComRes poll for the EU Referendum Campaign reveals 76% of the British Public disagree that prisoners should be allowed to vote in Parliamentary Elections.

The British often seem to be tired of being ruled by laws which come from Bruxelles.
“The British public are sick and tired of interference from Europe in whatever form. Our poll clearly shows that the people are against the vote for prisoners.
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 Apr, 2011 04:16 am
@saab,
It seams to me that nobody is compelling British people to do whatever they don´t want to do...the choice is simple and its there ! Europe is not just an one way channel ! That kind of reasoning makes Europe the laughing stock in the civilized world...weak and pathetic !
saab
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 Apr, 2011 05:24 am
@Fil Albuquerque,
As far as I know the EU laws are above the individual EU country´s laws.
When EU comes up with a new law the EU countries have to follow.
Relating specifically (and exclusively) to Germany, where from 1998 until 2004, 18,187 EU regulations and 750 EU directives were adopted in Germany. During the same period the German Parliament passed in total 1,195 laws.
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 Apr, 2011 05:48 am
@saab,
...perhaps I was n´t sufficiently clear...Nobody is forced to belong in the European community, this is not the third Reich !
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 Apr, 2011 06:43 am
@Fil Albuquerque,
Citizenship and the rights of citizenship is not an all or nothing matter and you can indeed under US law loss some or all of your rights as a citizen by your behaviors. Hell under some conditions you can loss your citizenship itself.

Second the right to have firearms is also under our laws and under our constitution a right of citizenship and it is highly amusing that as you do not approve of that right you have no problem saying no one should have that right.

However you do not control either US law or the US Constitution and the right to have firearms is just as solid as the right to vote.

Second the right/power to vote in the hands of people who had proven that they are not caring law abiding citizens can be as harmful in the long term to the society as a whole as having such people owning firearms.
Mame
 
  0  
Reply Sat 2 Apr, 2011 06:43 am
@parados,
parados wrote:

Mame wrote:

Back to the question - Should prisoners have the right to vote? Certainly not. Why not? You transgress the laws, you are removed from society. If you're removed from society, you don't get a say.

So it is OK for a society to use the criminal justice system to control politics by criminalizing opposing viewpoints?

I'm sure you can think of plenty examples without me having to tell you about them.


Oh please. More and more criminals are not being jailed because there's no room, so don't start with this political agenda stuff. Likely most criminals don't vote anyway, so your theory is full of you know what.

I don't see it as criminals paying any kind of debt to society - it's a punishment, plain and simple, and when you're punished, you lose certain privileges, voting being one of them, walking about free is another. You make a decision to transgress rules, you pay the consequences, and most people know upfront what those are going to be. If you park where you shouldn't, you're chancing getting a ticket; likewise, you rob a bank, you'll be going to jail... where there are no voting rights. If voting is so important to you, don't rob the bank.
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 Apr, 2011 06:48 am
@JTT,
JTT wrote:
There are way more criminals out than in. There are way more criminals out, voting, receiving pensions, being paid salaries, walking around free, giving speeches for recompense.


wait, you just described everybody from the financial community that played a part in the recent economic collapse
Mame
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 Apr, 2011 06:58 am
@djjd62,
Not to mention politicians, lobbyists, etc.
0 Replies
 
saab
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 Apr, 2011 07:02 am
@Fil Albuquerque,
The politicians want to make a political union. So far no country - their politicians - has left and I do not even think they want to leave.
The poiticians and some people think that only EU keeps Europe peaceful
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 Apr, 2011 07:10 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Citizenship and the rights of citizenship is not an all or nothing matter and you can indeed under US law loss some or all of your rights as a citizen by your behaviors. Hell under some conditions you can loss your citizenship itself.

Second the right to have firearms is also under our laws and under our constitution a right of citizenship and it is highly amusing that as you do not approve of that right you have no problem saying no one should have that right.

However you do not control either US law or the US Constitution and the right to have firearms is just as solid as the right to vote.

Second the right/power to vote in the hands of people who had proven that they are not caring law abiding citizens can be as harmful in the long term to the society as a whole as having such people owning firearms.



Your reasoning as expected is all the way down flawed...

1 - I never implied in my remarks that when it comes to rights it was an all or nothing matter, it is n´t for anyone, rather I believe voting is a central right...thus you necessarily, misread !

2 - I thought from the start that we were not debating abiding Law which I do, but instead debating a matter of opinion upon what one believes is right and why !...again you misread !

3 - I have no intention of questioning American Constitution and American Law which is in place by the free will of its people, nevertheless as a matter of opinion it is also my right to disagree with it totally or partially like in the particular case with the second amendment ! Guess what ? You misread once more !

4 - The right to vote in a candidate with an well known public general governing program hardly can be compared with the right to use firearms beyond the fact that currently both are in place and must be obeyed under US soil ! There´s no whatsoever any similarity in justification for both cases aside that in so far American citizens in general approve of them and they must be obeyed ! The necessary conclusion of your babbling is that you continually misread all my statements and prove ultimately incapable of addressing what actually was brought in...no surprise in there !

Your Logic is linear, simple minded shallow and superficial and so far you did n´t convince me of anything nor did you try to make a proper case for it !
0 Replies
 
 

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