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A woman kicked my dog.

 
 
Ceili
 
Reply Tue 15 Mar, 2011 08:18 pm
I took the boys to the dog park today. Murphy is 10 mths old, about 100 lbs, he's part great dane, part American bulldog. He's big, black, very strong, not graceful and not mean. Everywhere we go, people want to pet him, kids climb all over him, other dogs play well with him, my friends all want to keep him. He's a huge lap dog.
As many of you know, my christmas gift was not one, but two redbone coonhounds puppies.
Yes, two.
2.
I'd never owned a dog til Murph came along. So I read everything I could on dogs. I watched the Dog Whisper and other shows and talked to the vet, other dog owners and listened to everyone, didn't always agree, in my defense, some people have some pretty odd ideas.
This has been an especially bad winter, long, cold and we been buried in snow. The most snow ever, in recorded history. The longest , cruelest pre-spring cold snap, run on, and on, and on...
So, now I have three dogs. 3 Puppies. Seamus and Finnegan have been very hard to train. It's been so cold and they shake when they go near an opened door and well, there's two of them. Shocked it's been very difficult. So, after months of being cooped up for days on end, I've been able to let them outside for longer periods of time, go for walks and take them to the dog park much more frequently.
The dogs have all had their shots. I'm not going to breed them, so Murph's been fixed, and the little ones will be in two months. They've all passed their first dog obedience lessons.
Today I took the boys to the off leash park again. In the summer it's a huge flat grass field, with small clumps of trees and bushes, groves of tightly bunched aspens and poplars. In the summer people walk in circles too, but many people let their dogs run and wrestle and chase each other, as the owners stand or walk and talk, socialise while the dogs play.
In the winter, the City plows a wide path , a huge mis-shapened oval, with a wide path intersecting it. It takes about 30 minutes of leisurely walking to round it. We normally do 3-4 circles or two hours of walking. You talk to people you meet, or know as you pass or catch up, the dogs smell, bark, chase, wrestle and you move on. It still cold out there, the temp is still hovering around zero and your walking on packed snow. The field is finally melting, it's deep, and soft and your boots fill up with snow when you flog through it to pick up the dog's refuse. It's tight quarters.
Anywho, to make a long story short.. Laughing
I always carry leashes and treats.
The little guys are howlers, and barkers and they'll chase anything that moves, loudly.
Today a big dog put them in their place. It was a good thing. Dogs have to learn manners too. Eventually, they all ran together for one lap, with nary a bark. Murphy was rolled a few times as a pup too. He quickly learned the way of the road. There's only so much I can teach them.
Today's second lap, the dogs and I were alone. We came across a large pack. A pup saw the boys, bowed down and then ran towards them. My boys did the same thing and the chase was on. 3 or 4 other, bigger, younger dogs joined in. Finnegan chased the pup, barking, Seamus chased Finnegan, howling, as per the norm, and Murphy was, being Murph, the biggest dog, was barking too, just like all the other dogs... Then two older ladies with older dogs, decided it was getting too rough. All these stupid women freaked out,the owner of the puppy picked up her dog and all the dogs went crazy, and then the old bitch kicked my dog.
There were no dog bites on any human, no dogs were bitten, no one was knocked over, no one or animal was hurt in any way, it was just a lot of posturing on the dogs account. If people would just learn to relax.
Now Murph is lying in bed, he's not himself. There's no swelling, but he's a bit warm. I'm going to keep an eye on him for now.
I go during the afternoon, when the sun is the strongest, warmest. It gets too cold at night and I'm at school in the morning. My question is, what do I tomorrow. These same women seem to be there every time I go. I'm not really into confronting people. She told other people to beware of my dogs. She kicked my dog. Who should people beware of?
What would you do?
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Type: Discussion • Score: 28 • Views: 20,031 • Replies: 111

 
aidan
 
  2  
Reply Tue 15 Mar, 2011 08:46 pm
I keep my dog on a leash around other animals, not because I don't know what she'll do or how she'll react - I do- she's very well-trained and non-agressive anyway, in terms of her temperament.
But I never know how another animal will react and so it's best and easiest to have her on a leash so I can pull her more easily out of harm's way if it ever comes to that.
If she's not on a leash and another dog attacks her, I'd have to enter that fray and that's not something I'd want to do- bend down and put my face and my arms near an aggressive dog to try to move my dog out of it.
And yeah, I guess if another dog were attacking or being aggressive toward my dog - I would kick it to get it off her.
Not saying that's what happened in your case - but maybe the old lady was afraid it was about to happen or something.

But I've never been in the situation you're in. I never got a dog until I had a yard big enough for the dog to run around in and get sufficient exercise. When I got my first dog, the first thing I did was get a fence put around my yard so he could run and play a good part of every day.
Even now, my current dog is ten years old and I wouldn't live in a house without a yard for her to play in, on her own, off the leash. And she still runs the yard like a puppy,
The only place I let her off the leash outside the yard is in the woods where I'm 99 percent sure we won't run into any other dogs.
Maybe you could take your dogs to a fenced tennis court and let them run on their own when no one is playing. I used to do that when I lived across the street from a park. I'd hit tennis balls for the dog to chase, fetch, and bring back.

Honestly though, I do get frustrated with people who don't/can't control their dogs. When I walk my dog, which I do every day, I don't really want to be dealing with other dogs coming over and starting **** with her. When I see someone coming the other way with a dog, I generally cross the street with her specifically because I don't know how that other dog will react and I don't want to be dealing with tugging and barking and growling and stuff.

I think there is dog etiquette just as there is with children and people. If your kid can't handle sitting down and being quiet in a restaurant, you teach them manners at home until they can and then bring them out around other people - same with dogs.

I think other dogs are too unpredictable for me to feel that I'd ever be able to comfortably control a situation where I was in charge of one big dog and two unruly puppies off the leash with numerous other dogs and people added into the mix.
0 Replies
 
Ceili
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Mar, 2011 08:53 pm
You've never taken your dog to an off leash park? Does your dog play with other dogs?
tsarstepan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Mar, 2011 09:03 pm
@Ceili,
Quote:
There were no dog bites on any human, no dogs were bitten, no one was knocked over, no one or animal was hurt in any way, it was just a lot of posturing on the dogs account.

I worked at a dog kennel for almost 8 years not including the years of taking care of a family or friends dogs. Loud posturing can actually lead to some kind of altercation (either defensive or offensive) so just because you perceive it to be posturing doesn't mean you actually understand what's going on in each of the individual dogs' minds. Really, even the dog whisperer doesn't really know what's going on in the dogs' mind. Like most reality tv shows, his show has been edited to the max in order to prove his points and a lot of failures have been left out on the editor's floor.

I'm not saying your dog will react but consider a head on collision between two cars. Either it was caused by the guy travelling south or the guy travelling north or both were at fault. Nonetheless, it takes two cars to get into a two car collision like the adage says ... it takes two to tango.

Still, it doesn't justify the overreaction of the lady.

What should have happened was you should have leashed the dog and walked away from the smaller dogs in order to appease the irrational fears of the owners of the smaller dogs.

Quote:
Now Murph is lying in bed, he's not himself. There's no swelling, but he's a bit warm. I'm going to keep an eye on him for now.

Where did the dog get kicked? Is the dog sore if you massage the area?
aidan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Mar, 2011 09:05 pm
@Ceili,
No - I don't even know where an off-leash park would be in any of the places I've ever lived.
That's because I never got a dog until I had a place for that dog to play and run and get exercise day or night whenever it needed it.
I've always had big dogs. I'm not a little dog fan.
And I believe dogs should be able to run freely and be outside a good part of the day.
So an off-leash park has never been one of my needs.
My dog does play with other dogs when friends come over and bring their dogs to play with my dog in the yard.
She's a very happy dog. She never gets cabin fever. I wouldn't put my dog in a situation where she would.
We move a lot - I only even look at houses where my dog would have a fenced yard to run freely in.
Ceili
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Mar, 2011 09:17 pm
@aidan,
I have a big yard, unfortunatly, it's under 4 ft of snow at the moment. They are spending more time out there as I've said. But it's not easy walking on snow this deep. I take the dogs to dog parks all the time. It's unusual to keep dogs on leashes at these parks. I think dogs need to be around other dogs.
Cabin fever here comes from -20 weather. These dogs have very little fur, even coats and booties didn't do the trick. It's now warm enough to go outside, during the day, With the roads covered in ice, melting snow water, chemicals, with huge windrows lining roads and sidewalks, it's much safer for us all at the park.
aidan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Mar, 2011 09:32 pm
@Ceili,
Oh, well that's a hard one then. Now I know for sure I'd never want to live in Canada!
But when we lived in Maine, we used to get four feet of snow all the time and my dogs would just walk on it. I can't remember ever having a situation where I couldn't let my dog out in the yard.
In fact, I have a picture of my 120 pound german shepherd walking OVER the snow to get out of my four foot picket fence.

Can you shovel some trails through your yard or something? That'd be fun for them to be able to run through this maze of snow trails.

I don't know. I've never been in your situation. But I do know I get irritated when people can't control their dogs.
Ceili
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Mar, 2011 09:41 pm
@aidan,
It's not necessarily the snow, it's the fence. It's not high enough to go and run around the yard with out easily jumping over..
Your german sheppard had more fur, again, the little ones were bred for the alabama climate, they wouldn't do well in Maine either. Again, the dogs weren't out of control. They were being dogs. Not children.
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Mar, 2011 09:47 pm
We have a similar problem with BBB's two dogs. They rough house and chase each other around the backyard and have a good time. They haven't ever been socialized with other dogs and we're still at the beginning stages of getting them through some basic training. They have a lot of bad habits to break.

They take turns being the alpha dog around each other. Maddy is extremely protective of Dolly when she escapes out the front door while Dolly will try to show Maddy who is boss by roughly humping him when he snatches a toy away from her. When she does it he gets a bored "see what I have to go through" look on his face and ignores her.

Anyway, a new dog park was recently opened up within walking distance of us, but I've been reluctant to take them there because I don't know how they will act around other dogs. I've been trying to find a time when no one else is there so they can at least get used to the smells of other dogs being around before I introduce them.

I'll be interested in what tips others have for you.
ossobuco
 
  2  
Reply Tue 15 Mar, 2011 09:49 pm
@aidan,
I'm not very experienced with all this but I understand that to a great extent dogs work stuff out on their own.

When I had Pacco in the car or on leash on walks, he was mr. dawg. (Thus I had to replace seat belts; he would grab and tear at them with anger at dogs in other cars or people with parkas, before I learned to crate him in the car.)
Meet a dog with the dogs on leash, sniffing out - accommodation after some agita.
I had great sturm and drang re what to do when I landed in Albuquerque at near dark and Pacco had to meet SallyDog. Dys, mr. wise, insisted I let him unleashed in the back yard. (Last thing I needed was him hurting their dog..) They went into snarl city and I tried to separate them. But they separated themselves, I was just in the way. He was soon enough dry humping her ear near the kitchen table.

It seems this is the way dog parks work. I dunno. Spring is in the air and I want to go check out the new neighborhood dog park for dog watching.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Mar, 2011 09:51 pm
@Butrflynet,
We cross posted. And are interested in the same dog park. Maybe we can meet up..
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Mar, 2011 09:56 pm
@ossobuco,
Will be tied up this week with taking BBB for some medical procedures and helping her recover afterward. Sounds like a good adventure for the week after if the weather is good.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Mar, 2011 10:04 pm
@Butrflynet,
Ok, keep in touch..

We could go with or without the doggies to check it out. Meantime, I'm sure there is an untold amount of info online re dog parks and dogs.
I see the worry re small dogs, and don't know how that works out in real life.
As I mentioned in another thread, my business partner's dobie used to protect pacco at the doggy day care. Literally stand over him, according to the day care lady. On the other hand, I remember that once, she had to take pacco out of the general yard and put him in his own special cage palace, a day the dobie wasn't there.

He was mostly with me all the time, so the day care stuff happened on the rare occasions we had to drive, say, fifty or more miles to do a site mapping and left both dogs. Even then, sometimes we could leave them with her husband if he wasn't at work. So, I remain not all that experienced in all this.
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  2  
Reply Tue 15 Mar, 2011 10:06 pm
All three of your dogs are still puppies. Furthermore, they are your dogs. This woman attacked your dog. Last summer, when I walked after dark, I often saw a grey-and-white cat out for an evening's hunt. He was domesticated and loved people. One night, he was playing with the mouse he caught and a young woman tried to kick him. Her boyfriend/date told her the mouse was his dinner. I told her the cat was acting naturally but that she was being cruel. The fellow pulled her away.

Your dog may be injured. The woman is a beast.
0 Replies
 
wayne
 
  2  
Reply Tue 15 Mar, 2011 10:08 pm
@Ceili,
I don't think the woman should have kicked your dog, I must, however, consider what her position might be. From what you've said, this was an older woman and your dog is quite large and young to boot.
I can understand how the woman might have been fearful of injury and over reacted as a result. Large youthful dogs can easily hurt someone in thier exuberance.

I don't think you are doing anything wrong here, it is an off leash park after all. It is possible that this older woman would be more suited to a different situation for she and her dog. As with many situations though, she probably does not understand the purpose of an off leash park, and sees the situation entirely from her own convenience.

My experience, with socializing dogs, shows that it works best when the dogs are familiar with each other. If the same dogs use the park regularly they know each other and their place in the order. When the situation is too fluid, the reactions are unpredictable. The only advice I can offer is that when attending this park, pay close attention to whether or not there are unfamiliar dogs there. If so, it might be best to employ the leash until the proper introductions are made.
0 Replies
 
Ceili
 
  2  
Reply Tue 15 Mar, 2011 10:28 pm
@Butrflynet,
I take the dogs every chance I get. I go everyday. There are a couple in the river valley I'm going to check out soon.
If I say Dog Park in the house, the dogs go crazy, then they calm down, just in case you were wondering.. I can't even mention it in a conversation.
Take your dogs, leave them on a leash at first. They'll meet other dogs, learn the how to sniff and where, how to play and how to pee. They will also learn to socialize with people, kids, deal with bikes, baby carraiges or sleds.
There are small dogs, old dogs, groups and singles. There's a alpha in every group, it changes with the groups you pass. Dogs love to play with other dogs. I've never seen an all out fight. I've never even heard of anyone, ever being bitten. In all the months I've been going to the park, I've never seen blood either, it would show up really well on all the white. Most dogs never stray further than a loud shout away, some stay within a few feet. Some of the dogs, big and small, love to catch a ball while others will play keep away with a stick. Herders try to keep all the dogs together. Pups learn to respect their elders, one growl or nip and young dogs learn their place. Old dogs just walk, they don't want to play. Dogs respect that.
Butrflynet
 
  2  
Reply Tue 15 Mar, 2011 10:39 pm
@Ceili,
There is a bit of anxiety here with having them around other dogs because of BBB's other little dog being killed by a neighbor's big dog when she dug under the fence and sneaked into our neighbor's yard and then their neighbor's yard.

We're working on it. I'm hoping to get to take them there quite often this summer.
Ceili
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Mar, 2011 10:46 pm
@Butrflynet,
Oh man, that's rough. I can absolutly understand the trepidation.
0 Replies
 
Ceili
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Mar, 2011 10:56 pm
@tsarstepan,
Sorry Tsar, missed your post in there.
Yes, he's sore. She kicked him in the ribs. I'm watching him closely. He's not whining, he could be tired, we were at the park the last three day for 2 hours each go. The dogs run a lot, they get pretty tired.
I always carry leashes and I do separate the dogs, I just don't kick them. Trust me, I don't claim to know what goes on their heads. I just know that people can escalate situations, more often than not.


Hmmm, just thought of a question for the Phil Folks...
If a bunch of dogs are more than 20 feet in the distance away from their owners and they bark, and growl, no biting is it still a fight?
0 Replies
 
Bella Dea
 
  4  
Reply Wed 16 Mar, 2011 07:58 am
This is tough, because we don't know your dogs. If it were Bailey and Zoe (my beasts) Bailey doing that would be nothing, Zoe doing that would be the start of trouble. I think only you can say if it was just fun and playing or if it was the start of a fight.

Either way, the woman should have picked her dog up, asked you to please keep your dogs away from hers, and walked away. Kicking is just cruel and unnecessary and if it had been the start of something, could have caused her to become the target. It is an off leash park but usually they have an area for large dogs and one for small dogs (at least by me they do). Is that not the case at your park? Bailey is 100lbs and even though he is as gentle as a kitten, playing with a 20lb dogs is like him playing with a rag doll.
0 Replies
 
 

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