America to Unions: Enough is Enough

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Liberal Democrats just hate it when a political figure fulfills promises made on the campaign trail – especially when those promises are specifically the will of the people.

Gov. Scott Walker, while he was candidate Walker, made it crystal clear that if the fine people of Wisconsin found him worthy to be their governor he would eliminate the collective bargaining power of the Government Employees' Union. He would also ask union employees to contribute a very small amount to their pensions and health care as one of many steps to balance the state budget, which includes a $3.6 billion deficit. He actually ran campaign ads with that exact language.

Guess what? The people said yes!

However, Democrats and their powerful friends in the union decided their needs and wants for their 35,000 members were far more important than the needs of 5 million fellow citizens. It is more important to the unions to maintain the death grip they have on the state. Union members make double in wages and benefits as the equivalent workers in the private sector, yet they contribute a pittance in comparison to the private sector for health care and pensions.

Unions are the core of the Democratic Party. Therefore, what is playing out in Wisconsin is the very future survival of the Democratic Party. Democrats know if the unions lose so will the Democratic Party. This is a fight for the survival of an entire political party, and it serves them right for putting all their political eggs in the hands of "negotiators" who get and never give.

Mr. Obama just had to get his two cents in. As if he doesn't have enough on his plate to fix his own budget problems, he has interject himself into the debate and sided with the unions. He couldn't help himself. It is in his DNA. Every community organizer just loves the smell of tear gas in the morning and riot police confrontations. It makes terrific red meat for their radical left base. He knows without the unions he has zero chance of a second reign of terror in 2012.

With Mr. Obama comparing himself to several presidents like Abraham Lincoln, JFK and Ronald Reagan, he now has the opportunity to actually act like one. He could tell the protesters to stop protesting and go back to work or face immediate termination – just as President Reagan did with the PATCO workers. That would open up 35,000 jobs for the 500,000 people looking for work in Wisconsin.

Most people would love a job that pays twice what the private sector pays while protecting them from actually having to earn a superior salary. I know there are a lot of great union people, but let's face facts: Union bosses survive off workers who do the minimum amount of work. They encourage slothfulness.

Union bosses tell their members how abused they are and if they are not there to protect them, the big, bad government will take advantage of them. All the while, they abuse their members with high dues that, in many cases, are spent on causes many members detest.

Gov. Walker and his Republican members of the state Senate are prepared to make the hard choices, regardless of the demagoguery from the left. He will balance his budget. He will stop the corrosive effect collective bargaining has had on his state budget....

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@gungasnake,

Government should be about protecting the rights of minorities against majorities, the poor againt the rich, and the weak against the powerful... The unions are hanging on by a thread; but even if it is the best thing to have the unions destroyed -only if the result is the unity of american behind the idea that the government itself should be our union and defend our rights, and us, one and all...

America has really had too much of the government being the union of the rich, serving the rich, and feeding us one by one into the maw of profit... We have had enough, and what if we are now like mad dogs lashing out at friend and foe alike in our pain???...

God forbid that we should even discover those who afflict us, for it would make the reign of terror look like a church picnic... So kill the unions, and kill the middle class and see if I care... We are all that is standing between this moment and revolution... We should get out of the way and let it all come together. What do you think

1 Reply

@gungasnake,

Yep, government workers unions need to be busted up and I will
march & protest against government workers unions as needed.

0 Replies

@Fido,

Quote:

Government should be about protecting the rights of minorities against majorities

Government should not be about allowing minorities to rule. THAT is what the dems are asking for in the case of these government worker unions.

100 Years ago there was a real need for unions in the world. Today all you really see is the NEA and a couple of other govt. workers unions demanding wages and compensation significantly beyond those of the people who pay for it i.e. taxpayers and citizens. They're basically demanding to be recognized as a new aristocracy.

1 Reply

@gungasnake,

gungasnake wrote:

Quote:
Government should be about protecting the rights of minorities against majorities

Government should not be about allowing minorities to rule. THAT is what the dems are asking for in the case of these government worker unions.

100 Years ago there was a real need for unions in the world. Today all you really see is the NEA and a couple of other govt. workers unions demanding wages and compensation significantly beyond those of the people who pay for it i.e. taxpayers and citizens. They're basically demanding to be recognized as a new aristocracy.

Is that true??? Minorities should not rule??? Then why is it that our governments all together, and the rich rule us when together they do not make up more than 3% of the population... Look at our representatives... There is one for every 600K of people, and they divide the districts to keep their districts from ruling them...Even in ancient Athens with so far fewer resources than ourselves, there were one representative in their supreme Court, the essential part of government for every 250 citizens... We have afforded one rep for every 30k of citizens even when our conditions were primitive, and now we do not afford more reps because fewer are easier to corrupt, pure and simple... God; You are a fool... You idiots let the loopholes in the constitution trip you up, and you hate your brothers and blame them for the failures of this country... You would not wear a pair of day old underwear, and yet you insist upon us being saddled with a two hundred year old constitution that was always a piece of ****, that allowed the rich to have this country and carve it up between them while we are starved and reduced to slavery... The only thing wrong with the unions is that they are not revolutionary... The government should be our union... The government should defend our rights, and the government should make the exploiting rich walk the plank where ever they raise their heads... Effem...

1 Reply

@Fido,

The rich obviously did not vote Walker into the governor's mansion in Wisconsin (if as you say they are no more than 2% or 3% of anything) The war is not between public unions and the rich; the war is between public unions and the ordinary middle-class people who pay for most of our government.

2 Replies

@gungasnake,

gungasnake wrote:

The rich obviously did not vote Walker into the governor's mansion in Wisconsin (if as you say they are no more than 2% or 3% of anything) The war is not between public unions and the rich; the war is between public unions and the ordinary middle-class people who pay for most of our government.

Those who owned slaves in the south were but a small percentage of those who fought for the south, or who suffered the effects of the war... I know it is an idiots dream to be rich, and that is what makes Lotteries profitable... We identify with them, admire them, read about them, watch them on tv, and want to be them even if we would be the beverly hillbillies... It is human nature which causes people to follow the rich... Money has become the equivilant of honor... But the rich make us all poor, and only when the rich have taken the last we have, our money, our rights, and our honor even while they have encouraged us to take these from our neighbors across the board, then we will be all together with only one choice to make: Freedom or Slavery...

The republican will choose slavery, and they will fight for slavery just as free white trash did in the south because they identify with the masters even while having nothing more than the worst off of slaves...

1 Reply

@Fido,

Fido wrote:

gungasnake wrote:

The rich obviously did not vote Walker into the governor's mansion in Wisconsin (if as you say they are no more than 2% or 3% of anything) The war is not between public unions and the rich; the war is between public unions and the ordinary middle-class people who pay for most of our government.

Those who owned slaves in the south were but a small percentage of those who fought for the south, or who suffered the effects of the war... I know it is an idiots dream to be rich, and that is what makes Lotteries profitable... We identify with them, admire them, read about them, watch them on tv, and want to be them even if we would be the beverly hillbillies... It is human nature which causes people to follow the rich... Money has become the equivilant of honor... But the rich make us all poor, and only when the rich have taken the last we have, our money, our rights, and our honor even while they have encouraged us to take these from our neighbors across the board, then we will be all together with only one choice to make: Freedom or Slavery...

Stay on the liberal progressive democrat plantation or escape slavery and be
a free conservative, independent, libertarian or republic - - it's your choice.

1 Reply

@H2O MAN,

H2O MAN wrote:

Fido wrote:

gungasnake wrote:

The rich obviously did not vote Walker into the governor's mansion in Wisconsin (if as you say they are no more than 2% or 3% of anything) The war is not between public unions and the rich; the war is between public unions and the ordinary middle-class people who pay for most of our government.

Those who owned slaves in the south were but a small percentage of those who fought for the south, or who suffered the effects of the war... I know it is an idiots dream to be rich, and that is what makes Lotteries profitable... We identify with them, admire them, read about them, watch them on tv, and want to be them even if we would be the beverly hillbillies... It is human nature which causes people to follow the rich... Money has become the equivilant of honor... But the rich make us all poor, and only when the rich have taken the last we have, our money, our rights, and our honor even while they have encouraged us to take these from our neighbors across the board, then we will be all together with only one choice to make: Freedom or Slavery...

Stay on the liberal progressive democrat plantation or escape slavery and be
a free conservative, independent, libertarian or republic - - it's your choice.

No one can be a revolutionary in a conutry founded by revolution without also being a conservative... The problem is one of definition... A lot of lick spittle reactionaries having no understanding of their true condition, or of where their self interest lay live to attack others and deny their rights and condem all to slavery if allowed to do so and consider themselves conservative in the process because no one calls them what they are... All of humanity is conservative, and people are only forced into changes of forms out of dire necessity and Jefferson says so in the Delaration of Independence... So do not be foolish enough to consider me liberal... I want revolution as a right, and to conserve every right for which we once revolted... I will not sell out my inalienable rights for a pot of capitalist mush.. Or a promise ill made by a union for cooperation, peace, and a bigger piece of the pie... You see what such deals are worth... Not worth the cost of pen and ink...

1 Reply

@Fido,

Capitalism as I understand it is basically the idea of allowing markets rather than governments to determine how money and energy are spent.

ASSUMING we ever get some sort of a handle on banks, the creation of money, energy, and vulture.crony capitalism, then how is that, in theory at least, such a bad thing? I mean, we've seen what state control of everything leads to...

1 Reply

@gungasnake,

gungasnake wrote:

Capitalism as I understand it is basically the idea of allowing markets rather than governments to determine how money and energy are spent.

ASSUMING we ever get some sort of a handle on banks, the creation of money, energy, and vulture.crony capitalism, then how is that, in theory at least, such a bad thing? I mean, we've seen what state control of everything leads to...

If you actually think you understand capitalism, then you would not need to qualify your thoughts with a reference to your understanding... As Aristotle said of Government, they are formed for good, and if that means that the weak must be protected from the exploitation of the powerful; then that is the task of government, and our Government was formed in this fashion, with good goals before it, reasonable goals, possible goals which it has abandoned long since in preference for a mindless ideology that never has performed up to expectation... Now; The economy must support the population and the good goals of government... The poor and the powerless must be protected from the rich and the powerful, or we simply do not have a nation or society since, on the other end, if the rich were not protected from the poor, or the criminals, or the worthless then we would have no nation either...

The State exists to bring enough justice to both classes to assure peace, and it does not now do so... The economy left untaxed, and uncontrolled finds no natural limits on its exploitation of the population, and then, when it has taken so much that the people can give no more, the rich go to the government with hands out to get what the people as individuals can no longer give, and for this, the price of their rescue is loaded onto the backs of people who little benefit from their wealth and capital... The government no longer represents the people or support their needs... It is hooked on an ideal that has long failed to provide the advance for society it has promised... It is time to reconsider our reality...

In answer to your question; the Government as a form is not the same as a state as a form... States, like civilization, imply more than one class, one ruling and the other enduring rule.... We need government, but the state is not a necessity...The economy is like any natural fact of life, like a wild river, or fault line which should not be ignored by government, but is the very sort of thing that government should be provided for, to limit damage and danger... Consider the meaning of the word economy... It means house management... If people should govern their houses and resources should the government, acting for the people not govern its own house... If the government will see the people broken, exploited and empoverished by an outside the law economy then the government has destroyed its own legitimacy...

1 Reply

@gungasnake,

Organized Labor vs. Public Opinion
Union overreach is fracturing the Obama coalition.

0 Replies

@Fido,

Somewhere along the line, American leftists ran out of rich people to scapegoat and are now using the ordinary middle class the way they used to use the rich and, as you can see from Wisconsin, the middle class have determined not to take it any more.

1 Reply

@gungasnake,

gungasnake wrote:

Somewhere along the line, American leftists ran out of rich people to scapegoat and are now using the ordinary middle class the way they used to use the rich and, as you can see from Wisconsin, the middle class have determined not to take it any more.

I hate to agree with you on any point, but the fact is that anyone with anything seems to be fair game, and it is justly deserved since the unions never fixed things so they were fixed for good and all... We took our cut, and in the process divided the working class and made true and necessary change impossible to achieve... Still, none of us seems to have the courage to say: Take the commonwealth back from the rich if they will not pay for the defense they get from the police, the military, the law, and the constitution... If they have sold this country cheap to put a down payment on the world then let them deliver it to international capital, or let them answer for it... Union labor sold out for its piece of the pie... As great as the pain might be; to wipe them out if it leads to revolution long over due would be the best possible event for America... The advocacy of good is not sufficient to define the unions as good... For them to be truly good they must be willing to live and die for revolution that will accept nothing less than common good, and equal advance for all in society... We are a house divided... The rich around the world are feeding on us, and laying bare our national throat before the blade of international envy... The rich are traitors to the cause of democracy, as they have always been since the days of Plato...

1 Reply

@Fido,

It doesn't really sound like you have any thoughts about the nature of money, who has the authority to generate it and how, the question of fractional reserve banking and/or other things of that nature. You REALLY need a copy of that book of Ellen Brown's which I mention from time to time on forums, "Web of Debt":

http://www.webofdebt.com

THAT is the really big story about exploitation over the last 300 years more or less.

1 Reply

@gungasnake,

gungasnake wrote:

It doesn't really sound like you have any thoughts about the nature of money, who has the authority to generate it and how, the question of fractional reserve banking and/or other things of that nature. You REALLY need a copy of that book of Ellen Brown's which I mention from time to time on forums, "Web of Debt":

http://www.webofdebt.com

THAT is the really big story about exploitation over the last 300 years more or less.

Let me agree with you that paper money is but one method by which the working people of this world are robbed... John Connely said as much of England, that Ireland could raise the green flag and England would still control them through its banks and counting houses... The government has over spent and over committed armed forces fighting an enemy on the worst possible terrain... We cry about the price of Gas; but oil does not cost more to produce... The oil is not worth more... The money is worthless, and it will get even more worthless... It is a commodity whose value decreases as its supply increases, and since it can be printed easily, it's potential value can float to a possible zero... As one Maryland store clerk told a southern officer: The prining on the paper devalued it... As we try to buy the affections of worthless friends around the world with dollar bills we make it possible for them to own everything of value for the point of calling ourselves a world power... As Jefferson warned: It is the working people of the country who must bear the cost of deficit spending, and that is true because they create all the value...

1 Reply

@gungasnake,

Why do you separate the union workers from the "ordinary middle-class"? Are they really such leeches that they don't even deserve an honest day's pay? Are teachers all a bunch of thieves? It sounds like that's what you're saying, and it's disgusting.

Also, why do you mention union's influence on government, and completely ignore the massive influence of huge corporate interests in every aspect of our government today, just as it was in the Robber Baron-days?

1 Reply

@Fido,

The question I was really looking for an answer to when I bought a copy of Ellen Brown's book was th extent to which Hitler's pulling Germany out of the international money system might have figured as a cause of WW-II.

That was the one thing the Nazis ever totally figured out and did right. Germany was a total basket case in 32 and within a space of five or six years had become the strongest economy on the planet DESPITE being blackballed, ostracized, and having to conduct all foreign trade on a pure barter basis.

THAT is the thing which bankers have wanted to keep a secret from mankind, i.e. how quickly, particularly in the case of a modern industrialized state like Germany or the U.S., a nation's economy would turn asymptotically upwards the first minute that English style banking/money system is dropped.

In other words, by doing things roughly the way the Nazis did, you can simply print money in ways which INCREASE the value of money, rather than decrease it. The only two meaningful things in that picture were productivity, and an element of trust.

Simplest possible example: Two shipwreck survivors on an island have five dollar bills from their previous lives left between them and there are five clams on the island; a dollar is clearly worth one clam. Nonetheless the first guy somehow manages to print five more dollars AND PAYS THEM TO THE OTHER GUY TO DIG UP FIFTEEN MORE CLAMS... That's right, there are now ten dollars on the island and twenty clams: a dollar is worth TWO clams. That is how Germany worked between 1933 and WW-II.

The gold standard caused major unbelievable grief all through the 1700s and 1800s and would cause worse grief now in any nation stupid enough to re-implement it.

1 Reply

@gungasnake,

gungasnake wrote:

The question I was really looking for an answer to when I bought a copy of Ellen Brown's book was th extent to which Hitler's pulling Germany out of the international money system might have figured as a cause of WW-II.

That was the one thing the Nazis ever totally figured out and did right. Germany was a total basket case in 32 and within a space of five or six years had become the strongest economy on the planet DESPITE being blackballed, ostracized, and having to conduct all foreign trade on a pure barter basis.

THAT is the thing which bankers have wanted to keep a secret from mankind, i.e. how quickly, particularly in the case of a modern industrialized state like Germany or the U.S., a nation's economy would turn asymptotically upwards the first minute that English style banking/money system is dropped.

In other words, by doing things roughly the way the Nazis did, you can simply print money in ways which INCREASE the value of money, rather than decrease it. The only two meaningful things in that picture were productivity, and an element of trust.

Simplest possible example: Two shipwreck survivors on an island have five dollar bills from their previous lives left between them and there are five clams on the island; a dollar is clearly worth one clam. Nonetheless the first guy somehow manages to print five more dollars AND PAYS THEM TO THE OTHER GUY TO DIG UP FIFTEEN MORE CLAMS... That's right, there are now ten dollars on the island and twenty clams: a dollar is worth TWO clams. That is how Germany worked between 1933 and WW-II.

The gold standard caused major unbelievable grief all through the 1700s and 1800s and would cause worse grief now in any nation stupid enough to re-implement it.

You should try to understand the extent to which hitler used bonds to rebuild the war machine which protected his economy from the prying eyes of debt holders that he was debasing his currency... You should also realize that before hitler, with the Brouning (sp) government, that the economy was already improving and Bruning was holding money aside to stimulate the economy that ultimately fell into hitlers control... Our situation is also similar since the aging field marshall Hindinburg helped hitler to power in order to protect the large junker estates of a past age from being broken up to pay due taxes... The rich who will not support their society and their privilages with cash invite tyranny and destruction for all... The whole story of Prussia from Frederick to Bismark to Hitler, including their defeat by Napoleon is a set piece, with one tragic event leading inevitably toward the next... Bismark destroyed democracy and fed reactionary nationalism, and in doing so he empowered a brainless Kaiser to make the war that made in time the Nazi party... Their flaws as human beings are only matched by the political and economic flaws made by the allies before, during, and after the first great war... In this, Wilson played no small part...

1 Reply

@trog69,

trog69 wrote:

Why do you separate the union workers from the "ordinary middle-class"? Are they really such leeches that they don't even deserve an honest day's pay? Are teachers all a bunch of thieves? It sounds like that's what you're saying, and it's disgusting.

Also, why do you mention union's influence on government, and completely ignore the massive influence of huge corporate interests in every aspect of our government today, just as it was in the Robber Baron-days?

It is not only true as you say it; but contracts are freely entered into on both sides, and this is an economic right from time immemorial... No one can say that working people do not have to give for what they get, that the contract is only one sided having benefits for only one section of the population... No number of unions representing imperfectly only a small fraction of the population barely ten percnt can have much barganing power... They are as much cop on their members as advocate, and leaders often represent both sides because they identify with the rich and the powerful as most humans do, out of weakness... The forces on the union are aimed at all the middle class because the rich absolutely refuse to pay more taxes than the laws they cause to be written will make them pay... They will not, both spend to by the loyalty of government representatives and pay for the support of the government... The one is due, but the other is purely investment... When they have government living on loans rather than income, it is they for the most part who give those loans... Why does the population not ask: If it is possible for the rich to loan government money to operate, why can they not pay their dues to the commonwealth???...

Low wages and long hours have forced the whole society into the use of credit such as most will never, ever escape... Why can we not get enough off the top to live without it... Simply said: we are manipulated out of our sense of individualism to despise collective action, even while unity is essential to these united states and even relative success in our affairs... No one can prove the existence of the individual... He is a myth... But for myths real men and real societies have often died...

Unions are absolutely foolish to try to buy the affections of government... They cannot win a bidding war against the power and wealth of the rich and their corporations... They are, and we are well within our rights to demand from government that they do their jobs, protect our liberty, deliver us justice, tranquility, general welfare, and unity... The unions try to do for a limited number what government should do for all, and against the resistence of government which finds personal gain in injustice... They are criminals... They are traitors in this land, and if this country ever wakes up to the injury done to us, their blood and the blood of the rich will water the earth...

1 Reply

America to Unions: Enough is Enough

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