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Houston Police shown beating suspect

 
 
aidan
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 6 Feb, 2011 07:50 am
@Ionus,
Quote:
I know people who have said their dog would never attack anyone, yet we have had several fatal dog attacks around these parts in recent years. If people dont think their dog will do harm (too much like themselves ???) what hope do they have of accepting their child will do harm ?

What does this have to do with the subject at hand? Are you talking about the mother of that cop who would have said, 'Oh, my son would NEVER stomp on another man's head after he had lain himself on the ground with hands out in surrender?'

Quote:

How much responsibility should selectors bear ? They may well think a person is unsuitable, but they are short staffed. The Police psychologist may want to pull a person off beat duty, but higher-ups need the manpower.

If they KNOWINGLY sent a powder keg waiting to blow out to wield his power to abuse on the community - they bear responsibility.

Quote:
Fellow officers should have stopped the attack. How much responsibility should they bare ?

Even more than the people who weren't there and set him loose in the community. How much responsibility should you bear when you see a person abusing another person and do nothing to stop it?
I know I would hold myself very responsible if I stood by and watched without taking action to stop it.

Quote:
How much responsibility should criminals in general bear ? Would you like to arrest a **** thrower, a biter, a spiter or a HIV addict with a needle ?

Some, for sure. They put themselves in an unpredictable situation - don't they?
But how many of them expect to be subdued and arrested by an out-of -his-mind psychopath who likes to stomp on peoples' heads?
Let's put it this way - I'm a habitual speeder. Should I really have to worry about being stopped, dragged out of my car and abused by a rogue cop everytime I exceed the speed limit?

Quote:
Part of the casualties in this "war" are the Police. Pain is a natural learning device. Why cant we use it ? What would we do to a soldier who lost it ?

I'm saying, if he's unfit for the job - take him out of the job. Or do you want to wait until he kills someone? He very easily could have given this man permanent brain damage. Would that have been alright with you?

Quote:
We have now reached the stage where people are locked up and the criminals roam free.

Huh? Where?
Quote:
If they are put in gaol, we have to pay for them to do nothing...perhaps do an education course...whilst a good men outside prison struggles to get ahead because we wont pay for him to study for free. The prisoner probably gets to watch a TV after being arrested for stealing a TV from the good man who never gets it back.....he has to work to get another one.

Sounds like you're envious. Would you want to trade places with an inmate?
I know I wouldn't. I wouldn't have wanted to live their lives before incarceration, I wouldn't want to live their lives during incarceration, and I wouldn't want to try to live their lives after they get out.
And I don't care how many tv shows I got to watch for free.

Quote:
And you are complaining if someone loses their temper ? I am surprised it is not more common.

There's a difference between losing your temper and stomping on an inert and unarmed man's skull.

Quote:
And you don't even know what you're talking about.
Are you certain ?

Yeah, when it comes to you assigning motivation for attitudes or beliefs to ME - I am certain you have no idea what you're talking about.
You don't know me.
edgarblythe
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 6 Feb, 2011 09:23 am
Aidan and others - I am interested in your comments, but please don't quote lonus, as I don't want any input from that source.
ABE5177
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Feb, 2011 11:51 am
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:

Screw off if that's all you've got to say.

SAY what????? all i did was ask a QUESTION

you a fuckin moron can't answer just say so

no seweat
0 Replies
 
ABE5177
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Feb, 2011 11:54 am
@Ionus,
Ionus wrote:

Quote:
Everybody is allowed a say, even the ones whose posts I don't read.
How would you feel if the Police were as unreceptive to listening as you are ?

that be another unansweered question

screw the idiot who's igonorihg ou5r posts excwept to insult us

nmop NO understanding of english there

he's goottta be a jaoilbird got screwded badly in his cell
who carees????

I don't
0 Replies
 
ABE5177
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Feb, 2011 11:55 am
@Ionus,
Ionus wrote:

Quote:
Sounds like you are saying some criminal acts are justified by unrelated circumstances.
You have already set yourself up as a judge and jury. What is an unrelated circumstance ? Where is they line draw betweeen a cop who needs help and one who should be gaoled ?

Quote:
Is that for everyone or just the police, how bout soldiers. Or survivors of bear attacks.
It is true for everyone, even bears that attack people.

i want to know the answers to all these questions too
maybe an 3neglish speaker will provide them
ABE5177
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Feb, 2011 12:03 pm
@ABE5177,
yeah to edgie boy who's marking down mty posts, don't read dont learn dont understan NUTHIN

just go home willya ?????
Rockhead
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Feb, 2011 12:07 pm
@ABE5177,
you're naive to think that just because you are being a dickhead on ed's thread, that he would be the only one to mark down your screed.
Ceili
 
  2  
Reply Sun 6 Feb, 2011 12:30 pm
I think most police forget that they are PEACE officers first and foremost.
Last night on the new it said that several of the officers had been fired. A few had been charged with misdemeanors. I wonder what actions would have gotten them more serious charges? Killing him maybe? After watching the video it seems they were lucky that wasn't the outcome. Never kick a man when he's down....
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Feb, 2011 01:00 pm
@Rockhead,
I did not mark anybody down. I have Abe on ignore, instead.
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Feb, 2011 01:19 pm
@edgarblythe,
Thing about marking a person down, all that does is remove the post from your personal sight. It does not prevent others from reading it. Only gang mark downs have much effect on a post. I opt for ignore, because I don't want to have input from certain persons. Which marks me a bastard in some readers' view, but I don't really care about that.
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Feb, 2011 07:19 pm
@edgarblythe,
Quote:
Aidan and others - I am interested in your comments, but please don't quote lonus, as I don't want any input from that source.
You wouldnt be a cop stomping on the heads of others would you ?
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 6 Feb, 2011 07:46 pm
@edgarblythe,
Quote:
Aidan and others - I am interested in your comments, but please don't quote lonus, as I don't want any input from that source.


Edgar, that gets way too complicated. Imagine trying to remember everyone's ignore list and who are the ones who want no quotes.

Putting people on ignore is really silly. You're a much too much open minded guy to go for that crap.
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Feb, 2011 07:47 pm
@aidan,
Quote:
What does this have to do with the subject at hand?
I am talking about your sons friend.

Quote:
If they KNOWINGLY sent a powder keg waiting to blow out to wield his power to abuse on the community - they bear responsibility.
Dont you think with all the Police violence out there, one selector would have been brought up on charges ?

Quote:
How much responsibility should you bear when you see a person abusing another person and do nothing to stop it?
If you view child porn you are 100% guilty. These people who film these events but never rush in to help....none have ever been charged.

Quote:
But how many of them expect to be subdued and arrested by an out-of -his-mind psychopath who likes to stomp on peoples' heads?
My point was how many of them would do that to a cop if they had the opportunity ?

Quote:
Let's put it this way - I'm a habitual speeder. Should I really have to worry about being stopped, dragged out of my car and abused by a rogue cop everytime I exceed the speed limit?
No, but if you refuse to stop and put my life and that of my kids in danger then I dont care if you get a little paint damaged.

Quote:
Sounds like you're envious. Would you want to trade places with an inmate?
No it doesnt sound like I'm envious. I point out that we treat a criminal better than we do an honest man who is struggling to get by without committing crime and you think I am envious of prisoners.....does that level of stupidity usually work or am I singled out for all the tricks ?

Quote:
I'm saying, if he's unfit for the job - take him out of the job.
Agreed. But criminal action against the officer is too much, given the spread of responsibility.
Quote:
Quote:
We have now reached the stage where people are locked up and the criminals roam free.
Huh? Where?
Is it your hope that if you dont know it then no-one else will ?? There are people who are too scared to have their kids play outside, old people who are terrified of a walk to the shops...great damage is done to society and your attitude is to tackle the Police whilst the criminals arent frightened...not in the least.
Quote:
There's a difference between losing your temper and stomping on an inert and unarmed man's skull.
Well I cant see the difference. You lose your temper and violence results.

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
And you don't even know what you're talking about.
Are you certain ?
Yeah, when it comes to you assigning motivation for attitudes or beliefs to ME - I am certain you have no idea what you're talking about. You don't know me.
May I remind you that I said you would make a good cop ? It is puzzling as to what you are going on about. Do you feel you would be stomping heads too ?

0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  0  
Reply Sun 6 Feb, 2011 08:00 pm
@JTT,
On one thread, as short as this, I don't think one need qualify for Mensa to master the concept.
0 Replies
 
aidan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Feb, 2011 01:41 am
I want to respect your wishes Edgar - because you asked in a respectful way and I'm sure you have your reasons- so I'm not directly quoting the person in question, but I won't ignore people.
I can't do it unless they're rude and inappropriate. I haven't seen that on this thread, so although I recognize that it may have happened somewhere else (I am not doubting your perception), I feel that it's productive (in my perception) to carry on this conversation.

It was my friend's son - not my son's friend. And his father, who is perhaps my oldest and best friend - we've known each other since we were both eight years old - is entirely aware of his son's issues and resulting behavior.

He's had the same issues his entire life (a tendency to substance abuse and addiction) and although he managed to avoid being involved in any criminal charges - he realizes that's only because he was lucky. Nobody stopped the car in which he ran around town with HIS friends buying and using drugs.
He's under no illusions. In fact he feels sick with worry and partially responsible for his son's issues.
He wishes his son was different and would behave differently.
But does that mean his son should be abused by a six men taking out the frustrastions of their day, or job, or entire life?
No.

In terms of any of the ancillary participants, selector, bystanders, etc taking responsibility - I think the key terms is 'KNOWINGLY'.
It's not always difficult to prove what someone did or didn't do - but it is often very hard to prove what they did or didn't know when they did it.

Just for the record, I do not and have never viewed child porn. If I did, I would feel VERY guilty! Just because no one has ever been charged and held responsible for an activity doesn't mean they shouldn't be.

I don't know how many criminals would like to stomp on a cop's head. Probably a lot. The point is, that shouldn't be and isn't allowed either.
My point is that in a humanistic and civilized society, we have a duty to treat people to a certain standard.
It is not alright to abuse or torture people - no matter what they've done. I don't necessarily agree - in fact - no, let me say that I DON'T agree with criminals doing easy time and having tv's and play stations in their cells.
And yes, I do wish that honest, struggling people were given more help to maintain a minimum standard of life.
But that's a different issue.
This cop in this video is only issue to which I speak on this thread. And what he did is WRONG! He should not retain his job and the chance to do it to someone or anyone else.

Look- a cop, a minister, a teacher, a counsellor- it's all the same.
If you use or abuse the powers your job gives you to hurt or take advantage of vulnerable people in your care - you should know and be aware that you will pay a higher price than someone society hasn't entrusted with those people and that power.
He assaulted that man innapropriately and for no reason except his own anger. He could have caused grievous bodily harm.
He has been trained and KNOWS moreso than the average person on the street what is necessary and what is unnecessary force. He made a decision to ignore that and expel his demons on this man because he had the POWER to do that to him.
He's dangerous.
Do you think he should be held to a higher standard of behavior or not?
I do.
There is a case going on right now in our village where a 20 year old man hit a 24 year old man once - the 24 year old man fell and hit his head on the curb and died. The 20 year old man will go to prison for that.
I see people all the time who are doing 5-7 years for throwing one wrong punch.
Why should this man, who should have known better - who is paid by society to uphold the law and who stomped and kicked this prone and inert man not face the same consequences everyone else has to?

Police acting like criminals will not solve any of society's problems.

When I lose my temper, violence does NOT result. Where did you get that idea? I couldn't be a mother or a teacher if violence resulted every time I lost my temper.
I have to control my urges. And honestly, I can say, I have never, ever, EVER had the urge to stomp on someone's head.
NO!!

I think I could make an okay cop. I didn't understand that's what you were saying.
edgarblythe
 
  0  
Reply Mon 7 Feb, 2011 05:43 am
I'm not sure I can make any points not already covered. I hitch hiked near, but not actually on, a freeway one time, years ago. A cop arrested me and took me to the city jail in Houston. As I stood in the booking room with three other men, I witnessed the one next to me standing with his hands at his side. I heard no sound, from the prisoner or the cop. Suddenly the cop hit the man in the face so hard the man flew behind me. I dared not move to see where he ended up and I never saw him again. The one doing the hitting sucked on his knuckles for a minute. Next, the same cop looked at my Rhode Island driver's license. He stared at me as if he were prepared to punch me out also. "You a yankee?" he asked. "No, sir." I kept my eyes straight ahead. One other jailer made a remark in my favor and the cop eased off. I had no base from which to operate, no money at all, so once I was released I did not make an issue of the way they did that unfortunate person. I went on to Oklahoma. I am thinking this was before video cameras got installed in these places.

I have no personal axe to grind. I have never been physically abused by a policeman. Most were very nice, or reasonable, at least. There are cops in my wife's family, even. But injustice can occur from almost any group without a system for checking their activities.
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Feb, 2011 06:22 am
@aidan,
The person to whom you replied to but did not refer to wishes to respond to your reply providing it doesnt offend anyone else's wishes as to how to reply and to whom.

A summary of my points :

1) A parent is the last person to ask as to what is a suitable punishment.
2) Selectors can take some responsibility for violent cops.
3) Fellow Officers can take some responsibility for violent cops.
4) Force psych's can take some responsibility for violent cops.
5) Criminals can take a LOT of responsibility for violent cops.
6) Violent cops can take some responsibility for their actions, but I see them more as shell shock soldiers who can no longer perform.
7) Human decency compels me to try to be understanding as to the causes of a violent cop and not conduct a trial by media.
8) Anyone who thinks they have all the answers, shouldnt just condemn another human for not being holy enough, but should have a serious rethink as to why that other human is so inclined.
9) I plead a special case for violent cops because they are a special case. Their job is not ordinary and they can not be compared to the average citizen.

My conclusion :

Bringing charges to bear against an individual when it is a system that equally failed may make some feel that justice is being done, but to me it seems like more injustice and burying the problem till next it should arise.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 7 Feb, 2011 08:56 pm
HOUSTON—Rep. Al Green said Monday he will ask the Justice Department to investigate after a video surfaced last week showing four Houston police officers beating a 15-year-old burglary suspect.

The video in question shows Houston police officers kicking and punching Chad Holley repeatedly during a burglary arrest in March.

Rep. Green, D-Houston, announced his decision during a news conference Monday.

"Because justice demands it and because I believe it’s the right thing to do, I will ask the Justice Department to investigate all aspects of the circumstances surrounding the Chad Holley apprehension," said Green. "This is really about justice for all, if we’re to truly have justice for every one of us we have to have justice for any one of us."

Police say Holley was arrested after a brief chase on suspicion he and three others burglarized a home. Holley’s mother has said her son’s nose was fractured and he limped after the alleged beating.

The four officers were fired. They are to be tried on various charges.

Holley, now 16, was convicted in October in juvenile court of burglary and put on probation.

0 Replies
 
 

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