THE US, THE UN AND IRAQ VI

ican711nm

Thanks for your reply. I must agree with the majority of your thoughts. But take issue with your position on the Valerie Plame affair on which you state:


The law in question is the Intelligence Identities Protection Act of 1982 which makes it a federal crime to reveal the identity of a covert agent where punishment can be up to 10 years in prison and up to $50K in fines.

Actually Ms. Plame's capacity with the CIA was not just as an analyst. This CNN article quote found at:

http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/09/30/wilson.cia/



In addition, Novak gives us a back handed confirmation of the illegality of his act by his special pleading, after the fact. We find, in the paragraph immediately preceding the above quote, Novak stating that a confidential source told him Plame was "an analyst, not a spy, not a covert operative and not in charge of undercover operatives". This begs the further question of where that confidential source actually worked. So it seems that at best Novak was the only dupe out of six jounalist initially offered this tidbit of information that felt it so irresistable and merely succumbed to moral weakness.

The fact that Plame was a spy in the field is confirmed by a second article in which we find the CIA in pursuit of justice for Ms. Plame, this contributed to by CNN's David Ensor and found at:

http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/09/29/novak.cia/

which states in its last two paragraphs:



The legality may hinge on whether all this happened while Ambassador Wilson was still considered employed by the State Department. The fact that Plame was a spy and was outed is not in dispute despite Novak's insistence that even if this was a crime it was "No great crime". No matter how much Novak doth protest, ignorance is no excuse in the eyes of the law. Novak's special pleading is akin to stating that one didn't realize what the speed limit was when pleading not guilty to going 65mph in a 45mph zone. The fact he is noble enough not to reveal his sources may not matter; he could still be prosecuted and convicted for his crime. The only difference revealing his sources would make might be the results at a sentencing hearing. All CIA sources that came into contact with Ms. Plame have been compromised and that may be the least of their problems stemming from this mere "much ado about nothing."

JM

And your thought on the fact that the citizens of many of these nations oppose their involvement?


And you see nothing dishonest about its inclusion in the list?


Whatever you say, frat-boy.


Your point is fallacious, and my challenege to you still stands. Your "coalition" is a joke. Only the very gullible or the very stupid believe in it.

Another fact that argues for it being correctly labled a unilateral action: Bush bullies the UN inspectors out of Iraq and goes in against the UN's wishes.

Indeed. This speaks volumes about Bush's statements about war being a last resort.

Yeah, hobit, especially when one really looks at who's involved in the coalition. How many troops and $$$$ each contribute is a better joke than anything Bob Hope can come up with.

Which makes me wonder why people still fling themselves about like floppy fish over how the "coalition" shows the US wasn't acting unilaterally.
BTW, CI, saw your pics from the SF gathering. You remind me of an old Kendo instructor of mine. My noggin got sore from rememberence!

Beat your brains out, heh? LOL

What there was of them...

No matter how you cut it we are taking all the punches.......

DIDN'T FORMAT SO WELL.
LINK IS AT THE BOTTOM OF THIS POST.
SORRY


Military Fatalities: By Time Period:

News

Period US UK Other* Total Avg Days
3 550 26 44 620 1.76 352
2 22 2 0 24 1.09 22
1 117 31 0 148 7.05 21
Total 689 59 44 792 2.01 395
To View Period Details Click The Period Number
Military Fatalities: By Month:
Period US UK Other* Total Avg Days
4-2004 88 0 2 90 5.29 17
3-2004 52 0 0 52 1.68 31
2-2004 20 1 2 23 0.79 29
1-2004 47 5 0 52 1.68 31
12-2003 40 0 8 48 1.55 31
11-2003 82 1 27 110 3.67 30
10-2003 42 1 2 45 1.45 31
9-2003 31 1 1 33 1.1 30
8-2003 35 6 2 43 1.39 31
7-2003 47 1 0 48 1.55 31
6-2003 30 6 0 36 1.2 30
5-2003 37 4 0 41 1.32 31
4-2003 73 6 0 79 2.63 30
3-2003 65 27 0 92 7.67 12
Total 689 59 44 792 2.01 395
To View Period Details Click The Period Number
View Fatality Names and Details Fatality Metrics
Hostile/NonHostile Timeline Attacks By Date & Place
Casualties Trends Since Fall of Baghdad U.S. Fatalities By Month
U.S. Fatalities with DOD Links U.S. Fatalities City Map
The Wounded: US Military as reported after 4/3
Period Wnd-RTD Wounded
03/19/03 thru 04/03/03 115 426
04/04/03 thru 04/02/04 963 1484
04/03/04 thru 04/09/04 59 222
04/10/04 thru 04/16/04 119 242
Total 1256 2374
Wnd-RTD: Wounded return to Duty within 72 hours

Wnd: Wounded not return to Duty within 72 hours

Totals updated weekly (every Friday) by the DoD

US Military Wounded by Month as reported prior to 4/3
Month Hostile Non Hostile Total Avg Days
MARCH 300 27 327 10.55 31
FEBRUARY 147 17 164 5.66 29
JANUARY 187 22 209 6.74 31
DECEMBER 266 28 294 9.48 31
NOVEMBER 332 12 344 11.47 30
OCTOBER 422 11 433 13.97 31
SEPTEMBER 244 26 270 9 30
MAR - AUG 1124 301 1425 8.64 165
Total 3022 444 3466 8.77 378
As Reported By Centcom
Wounded Timeline Daily Wounded Totals

Notes:
Latest Military Fatality Date: 4/17/2004
Total Fatalities since May 1st: 620
March 20th through May 1st: 139
Hostile US Fatalities Since May 1st: 387
Hostile Fatalities Since May 1st: 438
US deaths since July 2nd: 483
(Pres. Bush announces, "Bring Them On")
Total Fatalities since December 13th: 248
(Saddam Hussein is captured)
Total Hostile Fatalities since December 13th: 200
(Saddam Hussein is captured)
* Other - Polish: 2
* Other - Danish: 1
* Other - Spanish: 11
1 Military Diplomat, 2 Army Soldier, 8 Central Intelligence Agents
* Other - Italian: 17
* Other - Ukrainian: 4
* Other - Bulgarian: 5
* Other - Thai: 2
* Other - Estonian: 1
* Other - Salvadoran: 1





04/17/04 KRT: 6 Marines, scores of Iraqis killed in fierce battle (not confirmed)
Six Marines were killed and scores of insurgent Iraqis slain in a fierce 14-hour battle Saturday between Marines and mujahedeen fighters who slipped into this town near the Syrian border.
04/17/04 UPI: 3 U.S. soldiers are killed (not confirmed)
Iraqi gunmen reportedly fired rocket propelled grenades at a U.S. patrol in a Baghdad suburb Saturday, killing three soldiers and wounding three others.
04/17/04 GEO: Two Jordanians killed
Two Jordanians were killed in the US gunship helicopter's rocket attack in Ramadi.
04/17/04 Times: Three U.S. soldiers wounded
Three U.S. soldiers were wounded, including one who was shot in the head and was not expected to survive.
04/17/04 SABC: Iraqi wounded in Baghdad blast aimed at US patrol
A bomb allegedly aimed at a US patrol exploded in central Baghdad today and police said an Iraqi civilian had been wounded.
04/17/04 AP: Iraqi Gunmen Offer to Swap U.S. Soldier
...the 20-year-old was surrounded by masked gunmen who offered to exchange him for imprisoned Iraqi fighters and claimed they had more hostages.
04/17/04 Reuters: U.S. soldier dies of wounds after Najaf attack
A U.S. soldier has died of his wounds after an attack by Shi'ite militiamen near the holy city of Najaf on Friday, Brigadier General Mark Kimmitt has told a news conference.
04/16/04 NBC4: Ohio Solider Captured In Iraq
A soldier on a videotape delivered from Al-Jazeera television to the U.S. Embassy in Qatar Friday identified himself as an Ohio soldier.
04/16/04 Reuters: Kidnappers free four hostages
Three Czechs taken hostage in Iraq have been freed, as well as a Canadian who said he was desperate during his eight-day captivity in which kidnappers beat him and accused him of being a Jewish spy.
04/16/04 Novinite: Two Iraqi Police Gunned Down
Unidentified gunmen killed two Iraqi policemen near a mosque in the holy city of Karbala.
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Operation Enduring Freedom Fatalities
Sources:

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(1) Department of Defense press releases @ DoD
(2) CENTCOM press releases @ CENTCOM
(3) British Ministry of Defense website @ MoD

Data research by Pat Kneisler Site Designed and maintained by Michael White Special Thanks to Lynn, Evan, Glenn, & Michal
Copyright 2003-2004 by Lunaville


http://lunaville.org/warcasualties/Summary.aspx

Broadcast on Friday, April 4, 2003 by the The Portual News (Portugal's Weekend Newspaper in English)
US Arms Group Heads for Lisbon


Directors of one of the world's largest armament companies are planning on meeting in Lisbon in three weeks time. The American based Carlyle Group is heavily involved in supplying arms to the Coalition forces fighting in the Iraqi war.

It also holds a majority of shares in the Seven Up company and Federal Data Corporation, supplier of air traffic control surveillance systems to the US Federal Aviation Authority. The 12 billion dollar company has recently signed contracts with United Defense Industries to equip the Turkish and Saudi Arabian armies with aviation Defense systems.

Top of the meeting's agenda is expected to be the company's involvement in the rebuilding of Baghdad's infrastructure after the cessation of current hostilities. Along with several other US companies, the Carlyle Group is expected to be awarded a billion dollar contract by the US Government to help in the redevelopment of airfields and urban areas destroyed by Coalition aerial bombardments.

The Group is managed by a team of former US Government personnel including its president Frank Carlucci, former deputy director of the CIA before becoming Defense Secretary. His deputy is James Baker II, who was Secretary of State under George Bush senior. Several high profile former politicians are employed to represent the company overseas, among them John Major, former British Prime Minister, along with George Bush senior, one time CIA director before becoming US President.

The financial assets of the Saudi Binladen Corporation (SBC) are also managed by the Carlyle Group. The SBC is headed up by members of Osama bin Laden's family, who played a principle role in helping George W. Bush win petroleum concessions from Bahrain when he was head of the Texan oil company, Harken Energy Corporation - a deal that was to make the Bush family millions of dollars. Salem, Osama bin Laden's brother, was represented on Harken's board of directors by his American agent, James R. Bath.

The connection between the Bush and bin Laden families can also be traced to the collapse of the Bank of Credit and Commerce International (BCCI) in the 1990s. Members of the Anglo Pakistani bank's board of directors included Richard Helms and William Casey, business partners of George Bush senior and former CIA agents. During their time at BCCI both Helms and Casey worked alongside fellow director, Adnan Khasshoggi, who also represented the bin Laden family's interests in the US.

The Portugal News has been told by a reliable source that the Carlyle Group meeting in Lisbon will discuss the relationship between the Saudi Binladen Corporation (SBC) and Osama bin Laden. Many US officials claim that the SBC continues to finance his political activities, and has done so for many years. If true, this would place George Bush senior and his colleagues at the Carlyle Group in an embarrassing position. As managers of SBC's financial investments they might well be accused of indirectly aiding and abetting the United States' number one enemy.

© 2003 the-news.net

###

Gels, Betcha nothing comes of this news, and it's business as usual.

BTW, the Bushies don't understand the concept of "embarassment."

CI, what is so sickening is they call it business. You have to know that when they look at their returns they smile... and say 'somebody's got to do it.
Blood money

Yes, it is generally easier to ask questions than formulate answers. I think that too because I have also formulated answers and posted evidence to support those answers. But the response I get suggests to me much contradictory thought among those on the left. So to test these perceptions of mine, I have with increasing frequency resorted to questions. My intent, so far frustrated, is to try and figure out why those on the left might think what they do. No absolutes are sought by me, nor expected to be found. Your reasonable thoughts would be appreciated and respected.

ican, That goes both ways. When Bush claimed he's a "uniter and not a divider," exactly what should we have expected? Can you actually support this rhetoric with the reality?

Then in a later post you quote this review:


Writer of a very bad book? Ok! A "hack" not OK.

I agree that this book is a very difficult read. I personally had to reread each major section several times before I was satisfied I understood its main point.

The fundamental message in the book is that too many arabs "prefer an excuse to an accomplishment" (a phrase borrowed from Thomas Sowell in his book "The Vision of the Annointed") and seek to blame the west for the current state of their culture rather than exhibit the necessary courage required to strive to rectify that part of their culture which has gone awry.


In another review you quote:


Well, why if Lewis is a "hack" did this reviewers claim that Lewis's book is a "disappointment"? A rational reviewer is unlikely to claim a book is a disappointment if he thinks its predecessors were the work of a "hack".

But, Walter, that which I wrote is true. It provides a valid explanation for why obtaining UN approval for the Iraqi war was doomed to failure by French and Russian vetoers of such a war and their vested interests in the continuation of Saddam's regime. It explains why the misbegotten idea that failure to win support of the UN is equivalent to unilateralism, is a fraudulent idea.

If we could get a 'hook' into something that made sense to Arab psychology, such as "preferring excuse to accomplishment", AND get people in the region to take it seriously, perhaps it would loosen the hold of such thinking in enough people to shake previously-held perceptions and assumptions.

If at the time of her outing by Novak, Plame was a spy, and/or is in charge of spying, and/or works with or for those in charge of spying, and/or knows who is spying, then the law you cited above was broken by Novak and his informant. To the best of my current knowledge none of these conditions was true at the time of her outing. I am well aware of sources claiming otherwise. However, I do not consider sources or other unnamed persons reliable sources. I acknowledge the possibility but not the probability I am wrong.

However, I respect the way you debate and discuss.

Bush is fallible! There I wrote it and I'm glad.

Among those seeking or who have sought within the last year to be elected president in November, who is less fallible?

I, of course, am scheduled to be infallible by next Tuesday. But I am way behind schedule. How about you? :wink:

Seeking to unite is not rebutted by a failure to unite, especially when the odds against uniting are so great. Uniting people with conflicting objectives is a tad difficult. It might even take a great effort on the part of such as me. Again, how about you?

Perhaps after 2,000 or so years we should now again look for another great star in the eastern sky to help us find a solution.