0
   

THE US, THE UN AND IRAQ VI

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Apr, 2004 04:43 pm
McTag, After reading the article provided by your link, most of us can now understand what Bush meant when he said he's the "war president." He knows how to start wars, but doesn't have any clue as to its costs or how to determine its goals. "We'll stay the coarse" only tells us they have nothing to offer beyond today while we continue to lose lives and our treasury.
0 Replies
 
Kara
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Apr, 2004 08:12 pm
Quote:
"They have destroyed a life. They have not cracked our values and our efforts for peace," Berlusconi said


What a profound statement.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Apr, 2004 08:31 pm
Why push the idea of Bush as 'war president', which of course is how he describes himself....
Quote:

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/politics/DailyNews/Rove_020118.html
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Apr, 2004 08:34 pm
They are consistent in their inconsistency. That much we can depend on.
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Apr, 2004 08:50 pm
Us Emulates Israeli Tactics

Last Updated: Wednesday, 14 April, 2004, 12:02 GMT 13:02 UK

By Jonathan Marcus
BBC defence correspondent

US soldiers in Iraq have been faced with revolts on more than one front
With sporadic fighting in Falluja and US forces moving into position outside Najaf, the Arab press is pointing to similarities between US military operations in Iraq and the tactics Israeli forces employ in the West Bank and Gaza.

Such similarities are not coincidental.

The Israeli army has long experience of offensive operations in urban areas and it is experience that the Pentagon has been eager to draw upon.

Israel and the US have developed a close military relationship over the years.

Two-way exchange

Israel's armed forces are undergoing a process of transformation similar to that advocated by US Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld with the emphasis on lighter, more agile units employing devastating firepower and drawing on a variety of new information and intelligence gathering systems.

Go to any US military exercise and Israeli observers are much in evidence.

But the transfer of doctrine and tactics is not just a one-way street.

US commanders have drawn extensively on Israel's experiences in the West Bank and Gaza Strip for lessons that might be applicable to Iraq.

Urban trap

Fighting in urban areas is something that modern armies tend to avoid wherever possible.

In the low-rise warren of alleys and narrow streets the advantages of technologically sophisticated soldiers are much reduced.

Even lightly armed opponents with local knowledge can constitute serious opposition.

Many Palestinians have demonstrated against the occupation of Iraq

And the proximity of civilians adds the risk of significant loss of innocent life and widespread damage to property.

While many of Israel's methods are controversial it has, in purely military terms, developed highly effective tactics for offensive operations in urban areas along with a range of specialised equipment which, for example, can help troops to breach walls, gather intelligence, and locate snipers.

The Pentagon has already bought some Israeli equipment. It is planning to buy more.

And senior US commanders have visited Israel specifically to discuss what the Pentagon jargon calls "Military Operations on Urban Terrain".
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Apr, 2004 06:50 am
Tony Blair's reward for supporting George Bush: a kick in the teeth, a public humiliation.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1193403,00.html
0 Replies
 
Brand X
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Apr, 2004 07:38 am
I have a feeling it's going to get nastier real soon. And there's that AFP source again.



Quote:
Iraq Cleric Sadr Rules Out Compromise With Coalition, AFP Says
April 16 (Bloomberg) -- Shiite cleric Moqtada al-Sadr, the leader of a militia uprising whose arrest is sought by the U.S., today said a compromise with the coalition in Iraq ``will not work,'' Agence France-Presse reported.

Al-Sadr made the comments in this first public appearance in two weeks, during sermon at the grand mosque of Kufa, about 5 kilometers (3 miles) northeast of the city of Najaf, one of the Shiite Muslim holy sites in Iraq, AFP reported.

``We will not allow the forces of occupation to enter Najaf and the holy sites because they are forbidden places for them,'' AFP cited Sadr as saying. ``I say that they are here to stay and will occupy us for many years and as such compromise will not work.''

The U.S.-led coalition has vowed to ``kill or capture'' al- Sadr and members of his Mahdi Army. Al-Sadr had been in Najaf. The U.S. has 2,500 soldiers backed by tanks and artillery outside the city.


Source
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Apr, 2004 07:47 am
Power Point presentation associated with the Aug 6, 2001 Presidential Daily Brief...
http://slate.msn.com/id/2098908/
0 Replies
 
Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Apr, 2004 08:56 am
McTag wrote:
Thank goodness we are still able to express opinions. There are those who would seek to prevent it.

Yes, an in the US, most seem to be on the left.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Apr, 2004 09:13 am
Scrat wrote:
McTag wrote:
Thank goodness we are still able to express opinions. There are those who would seek to prevent it.

Yes, an in the US, most seem to be on the left.


scrat

Recall the rhetorical question you asked yourself the other day about style and how it might relate to why folks jump on you? This post you've just written ought to be taped to your refrigerator with some scrawled notation in red magic marker like "Don't do this, self! It's a cheap shot, a generality, and even if others do it, self shouldn't. Bad self!"
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Apr, 2004 09:20 am
It just does not get any more plain .....

16 April, 2004
IRAQ
Al-Sistani tells USA: "The city of Najaf is off-limits"

Najaf (AsiaNews) - Ayatollah Ali Al-Sistani, the country's highest Shiite authority, has called a meeting of Provisional Government representatives, asking them to communicate his clear and decisive message to the Americans: "The (holy) city of Al-Najaf is off-limits."

American troops have been deployed around Najaf, as 2500 soldiers stand ready to enter the city, crush the Al-Mahdi army and capture their leader, radical Imam Moqtada Al-Sadr, held responsible for uprisings in Baghdad, Bassora, Nassiriya and other Shiite regions.

The young and rebellious Imam Muqtada Al-Sadr left the city of Kufa a few days ago and has taken refuge in Najaf, as sign of submission to chief Shiite leaders and in search of protection.

According to eyewitnesses, U.S. soldiers handed out fliers today on which it was read "Muqtada Al-Sadr is an outlaw". Such words have hardened Al-Sadr's position in negotiations with Coalition forces.

Among the various solutions proposals to ease the crisis has been the request for Al-Sadr's exile in Iran. However, the idea was rejected by both the Iranian government and Muqtada Al-Sadr himself.

Al-Sistani's message to the United States is not an ultimatum. His words are the advice of an old wise man to avoid undesired repercussions -by all parties involved.

Najaf is the most beloved holy city for Shiites worldwide, from Iraq to Afghanistan and home to the tomb of Ali Bnu Abi Taleb, cousin and son-in-law of the Prophet Mohammed and the fourth Caliph. The ancient city has also been the seat of world Shiite religious leaders for more than a thousand years. Najaf, a city with 560,000 inhabitants located 160 km south of Baghdad, is also home to the Al-Hawsa Al-Ilmiyya Shiite seminary.

For every violation and entry of foreign armed forces into the holy city reckless disorder could well be triggered across the country. Meanwhile, Al-Sistani urged foreign troops to "respect the sacredness of holy sites" and to avoid commenting on Imam Muqtada Al-Sadr inspired revolts.

Al-Sistani kept silent about the abduction and killing of foreign citizens in Iraq.

Al-Sistani, well respected by Shiites, Sunnis and Christians, is called the "Gandhi of Iraq" by the Arab press. (PB)
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Apr, 2004 09:26 am
Is Iraq a quagmire or what? When will Rummie and Bush see the reality of it?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Apr, 2004 09:33 am
We've heard this before.
********************
The Vietnam Analogy
April 16, 2004
By PAUL KRUGMAN

Iraq isn't Vietnam. The most important difference is the
death toll, which is only a small fraction of the carnage
in Indochina. But there are also real parallels, and in
some ways Iraq looks worse.

It's true that the current American force in Iraq is much
smaller than the Army we sent to Vietnam. But the U.S.
military as a whole, and the Army in particular, is also
much smaller than it was in 1968. Measured by the share of
our military strength it ties down, Iraq is a Vietnam-size
conflict.

And the stress Iraq places on our military is, if anything,
worse. In Vietnam, American forces consisted mainly of
short-term draftees, who returned to civilian life after
their tours of duty. Our Iraq force consists of long-term
volunteers, including reservists who never expected to be
called up for extended missions overseas. The training of
these volunteers, their morale and their willingness to
re-enlist will suffer severely if they are called upon to
spend years fighting a guerrilla war.

Some hawks say this proves that we need a bigger Army. But
President Bush hasn't called for larger forces. In fact, he
seems unwilling to pay for the forces we have.

A fiscal comparison of George Bush's and Lyndon Johnson's
policies makes the Vietnam era seem like a golden age of
personal responsibility. At first, Johnson was reluctant to
face up to the cost of the war. But in 1968 he bit the
bullet, raising taxes and cutting spending; he turned a
large deficit into a surplus the next year. A comparable
program today - the budget went from a deficit of 3.2
percent of G.D.P. to a 0.3 percent surplus in just one year
- would eliminate most of our budget deficit.

By contrast, Mr. Bush, for all his talk about staying the
course, hasn't been willing to strike anything off his
domestic wish list. On the contrary, he used the initial
glow of apparent success in Iraq to ram through yet another
tax cut, waiting until later to tell us about the extra $87
billion he needed. And he's still at it: in his press
conference on Tuesday he said nothing about the $50
billion-to-$70 billion extra that everyone knows will be
needed to pay for continuing operations.

This fiscal chicanery is part of a larger pattern. Vietnam
shook the nation's confidence not just because we lost, but
because our leaders didn't tell us the truth. Last
September Gen. Anthony Zinni spoke of "Vietnam, where we
heard the garbage and the lies," and asked his audience of
military officers, "Is it happening again?" Sure enough,
the parallels are proliferating. Gulf of Tonkin attack,
meet nonexistent W.M.D. and Al Qaeda links. "Hearts and
minds," meet "welcome us as liberators." "Light at the end
of the tunnel," meet "turned the corner." Vietnamization,
meet the new Iraqi Army.

Some say that Iraq isn't Vietnam because we've come to
bring democracy, not to support a corrupt regime. But
idealistic talk is cheap. In Vietnam, U.S. officials never
said, "We're supporting a corrupt regime." They said they
were defending democracy. The rest of the world, and the
Iraqis themselves, will believe in America's idealistic
intentions if and when they see a legitimate, noncorrupt
Iraqi government - as opposed to, say, a rigged election
that puts Ahmad Chalabi in charge.

If we aren't promoting democracy in Iraq, what are we
doing? Many of the more moderate supporters of the war have
already reached the stage of quagmire logic: they no longer
have high hopes for what we may accomplish, but they fear
the consequences if we leave. The irony is painful. One of
the real motives for the invasion of Iraq was to give the
world a demonstration of American power. It's a measure of
how badly things have gone that now we're told we can't
leave because that would be a demonstration of American
weakness.

Again, the parallel with Vietnam is obvious. Remember the
domino theory?

And there's one more parallel: Nixonian politics is back.

What we remember now is Watergate. But equally serious were
Nixon's efforts to suppress dissent, like the "Tell It to
Hanoi" rallies, where critics of the Vietnam War were
accused of undermining the soldiers and encouraging the
enemy. On Tuesday George Bush did a meta-Nixon: he declared
that anyone who draws analogies between Iraq and Vietnam
undermines the soldiers and encourages the enemy.

E-mail: [email protected]

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/16/opinion/16KRUG.html?ex=1083117934&ei=1&en=baed8c0e130163a6

Copyright 2004 The New York Times Company
0 Replies
 
BillW
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Apr, 2004 09:59 am
The sad part is that Bush uses the VietNam lies to justify his lies - How do you justify lies Question
0 Replies
 
Kara
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Apr, 2004 10:11 am
This was in today's Wall Street Journal


COMMENTARY

The Iranian Hand

By MICHAEL LEDEEN
April 16, 2004; Page A14

Much is being made about the irony of an Iranian envoy arriving in Iraq to help negotiate a solution to the U.S. standoff with radical Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr. How could we allow a charter member of President Bush's "Axis of Evil" to negotiate a "peace" with the thuggish Sadr and his band of fanatical militants?

Indeed, the irony is as thick as Sadr's own beard. But the fact that Iran holds sway over him and other Shiite militants in Iraq should surprise no one. Despite repeated denials by the State Department, it is an open secret throughout the Middle East that Sadr has been receiving support -- if not precise orders -- from the mullahs in Iran for some time now.

That the war being waged by Shiite militants throughout Iraq is not just a domestic "insurgency" has been documented by the Italian Military Intelligence Service (Sismi). In a report prepared before the current wave of violence, Sismi predicted "a simultaneous attack by Saddam loyalists" all over the country, along with a series of Shiite revolts.

The Italians knew that these actions were not just part of an Iraqi civil war, nor a response to recent actions taken by the Coalition Provisional Authority against the forces of Sadr. According to Italian intelligence, the actions were used as a pretext by local leaders of the factions tied to an Iran-based ayatollah, Kazem al-Haeri, who was "guided in his political and strategic choices by ultraconservative Iranian ayatollahs in order to unleash a long planned general revolt." The strategic goal of this revolt, says Sismi, was "the establishment of an Islamic government of Khomeinist inspiration." The Italian intelligence agency noted that "the presence of Iranian agents of influence and military instructors has been reported for some time." Our own government will not say as much publicly, but Donald Rumsfeld and Gen. John Abizaid, the commander of U.S. forces in Iraq, have recently spoken of "unhelpful actions" by Iran (and Syria).

The London-based Al-Hayat reported on April 6 that the Iraqi Governing Council was actively discussing "the major Iranian role in the events that took place in the Iraqi Shiite cities," noting that the Iranians were the predominant financiers of Sadr. Another London newspaper, Al Sharq Al-Awsat, quoted a recent Iranian intelligence defector that Iranian infiltration of Iraq started well before Operation Iraqi Freedom. Hundreds of intelligence agents were sent into Iraq through the north. After the fall of Saddam, greater numbers came across the uncontrolled border, masquerading as students, clerics and journalists -- and as religious pilgrims to the now-accessible holy cities of Najaf and Karbala.

The editor of the Kuwaiti newspaper Al Seyassah recently wrote a front-page editorial saying that Hezbollah and Hamas were working with Sadr, "backed by the ruling religious fundamentalists in Tehran and the nationalist Baathists in Damascus." No classified information was required for that claim, since Sadr himself has publicly proclaimed that his militia is the fighting arm of both Hezbollah and Hamas. Nonetheless, the State Department still doesn't believe -- or won't admit publicly -- that there's a connection between Sadr's uprising and Iran's mullahs. Just last week, State's deputy spokesman, Adam Ereli, told reporters that "We've seen reports of Iranian involvement, collusion, provocation, coordination, etc., etc. But I think there's a dearth of hard facts to back these things up."

One wonders what Foggy Bottom's analysts make of Sadr's recent visit to Iran, when he met with Hashemi Rafsanjani (the number two power in the regime), Murtadha Radha'i (head of intelligence for the Revolutionary Guards) and Brigadier General Qassim Suleimani (the al-Quds Army commander in charge of Iraqi affairs). And what might they say about the fact that much of Sadr's funding comes straight from Ayatollah al-Haeri, one of the closest allies of the Iranian supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei?

Americans must understand that the war in Iraq is in reality a regional war which unites religious fanatics like the Iranians and radical secularists like the Syrians and Saddam's Iraqi supporters. The terrorists include Shiites like Sadr and murderous Sunnis like al Qaeda leader Abu Musab Zarqawi (who, despite his celebrated contempt for Shiites, has openly proclaimed common cause with Sadr).

Iraq cannot be peaceful and secure so long as Tehran sends its terrorist cadres across the border. Naturally, our troops will engage -- and kill -- any infiltrators they encounter. But we can be sure that there will be others to take their place. The only way to end Tehran's continual sponsorship of terror is to bring about the demise of the present Iranian regime. And as it happens, we have an excellent opportunity to achieve this objective, without the direct use of military power against Iran. There is a critical mass of pro-democracy citizens there, who would like nothing more than to rid themselves of their oppressors. They need help, but they neither need nor desire to be liberated by force of arms.

Above all, they want to hear our leaders state clearly and repeatedly -- as Ronald Reagan did with the "Evil Empire" -- that regime change in Iran is the goal of American policy. Thus far, they have heard conflicting statements and mealy-mouthed half truths of the sort presented by Mr. Ereli, along with astonishing proclamations, such as the one by Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage, in which he averred that Iran is "a democracy." (One wonders whether he will liken Muqtada al-Sadr to Patrick Henry.)

Mr. Armitage notwithstanding, we can reach the Iranian people by providing support to the several Farsi-language radio and TV stations in this country, all currently scrambling for funds to broadcast a couple of hours a day. We can encourage private foundations and individuals to support the Iranian democracy movement. The current leadership of the AFL-CIO has regrettably abandoned that organization's traditional role of supporting free trade unions inside tyrannical countries, but there are some individual unions that could do it.

This sort of political campaign aimed at toppling the Iranian regime -- allied to firm punitive action within Iraq against terrorists of all stripes -- will make our task in Iraq manifestly less dangerous. Ultimately, security in Iraq will come in large measure from freedom and reform in Iran (as well as in Syria and Saudi Arabia). This is a truth that we should not hide from, nor be fearful to take on.

Mr. Ledeen, resident scholar at the American Enterprise Institute, is the author of "The War Against the Terror Masters" (St Martin's, 2003).

Copyright 2004 Dow Jones & Company, Inc. All Rights Reserved
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Apr, 2004 10:50 am
From Salam's blog (RAED)
Take note of the red italics (added by me) at the end.




Iraq and Palestine: Two Faces of One Coin

When the Sheikh Ahmad Yasin was assassinated by a missile in the last week of March, I felt very sad…

I feel sad, I know that all of this hate and anger because of the American position, and because of the Israeli irresponsible acts, is going to be translated in a way or another in a (Bin_Laden) like phenomenon...
(the 24th of March)

It wasn't just about Yasin, everyone realized that such a brainless act wouldn't solve anything, and it would just open more doors of violence. And when the Bush administration decided to backup the "Man of Peace" with a VITO… it was a real spark to explode the entire region.

Is there a time when the American administration (the one with bigger tanks, faster fighters and the most powerful weapons of mass destruction) will understand the real war they are starting?
(the 27th of March)

I don't think Bush understood that yet.

When AsSadr joined the Arabic uprising, and announced that he is proud to be under the commands of Hamas, and that his militias are another part of the Palestinain militias, Bush and Bremer noticed him.

The "smart" reaction was closing his newspaper (AlHawza).
*What happened next?
Hundreds of thousands of AsSadr supporters demonstrated against that…
*What happened next?
American forces killed some "bad people" demonstrating
*Did Bush and Bremer change their decision about the closed newspaper?
No.
*Why? Didn't they come to bring freedom and democracy?
Well, they said the newspaper was inflaming passions

I mean!! Is that a crime?
Tell you what Mr. Bremer… there is a cute girly inflaming my passions daily!
Is she going to be arrested too?

ok.. back to the subject…
*So, what happened next?
Some clashes started, here and there…
*And next?
Yeah… next… well.. Bremer decided to arrest the assistant of AsSadr.
*Ahha… and…?
And clash started expanding, more and more… and more…
*Then?
Then the whole thing was out of control.
*What did Bush and Bremer do?
The invented a new crime for AsSadr… released by an Iraqi court.
*Did the Iraqi Minster of Justice conferm that?
Nop.. he denied…
*Then?
Clashes started to be more like a war
*Whooaa!
And cities started to go out of the control of the CPA, like Najaf and Karbala.
*So, did the two Bs kill AsSadr? Did they arrest him?
Well… not really… they started some negotiations with him
*And?
And they agreed to pull out their forces…
*Ahha!
And to change AsSadr militias to a political party
*WHAT?! Haha! That's a joke right?
Not really… well… it is kind of funny… but this is what happened.
*So why did they start that from the first time?
mmm… I really can't help you in that.
*I mean… what do you call all of what happened then?
Haa.. haaa… haaaaaaa.. BUSHIT….
*Bless you.

So, after the huge defeat and failure, Bush decided to make a move today… he announced the neo-Balfour Declaration, and gave the house of my grandfather as a gift to Sharon. Please! UN resolutions? Road map? anyone? hello?

I mean… where is the point? How can someone donate something that he doesn't own? It's like me announcing that I give the house of Bush as a gift to my father!

By the way, my father had a real bad accident today, he was going to work in the morning and a big explosion happened near his car, destroyed the glass of the car, and he can't hear by his left ear now… I'm sure mom would announce all the details on her blog.

Ok… back to the subject, again.

So, bush thinks the only way to solve the Palestinian crisis is by killing more "bad" people, by giving the Sharon government the green light to keep the Israeli settlements, and by asking people like me to find another homeland.

Interesting :*)

Flyers distributed today by the Iraqi resistance asked the Iraqi people to stay home next week…
Let's see were is the end of this policy.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Apr, 2004 11:23 am
Maybe Iraq isn't as bad as we all thought.
**********************************
1. The first German serviceman killed in the war was killed

by the Japanese (China, 1937), the first American serviceman

killed was killed by the Russians (Finland 1940), the highest

ranking American killed was Lt. Gen. Lesley McNair, killed

by the US Army Air Corps. So much for allies.



2. The youngest US serviceman was 12 year old Calvin Graham,

USN. He was wounded and given a Dishonorable Discharge for

lying about his age. (His benefits were later restored by

act of Congress)



3. At the time of Pearl Harbor the top US Navy command was

Called CINCUS (pronounced "sink us"), the shoulder patch of

the US Army's 45th. Infantry division was the Swastika, and

Hitler's private train was named "Amerika". All three were

soon changed for PR purposes.



4. More US servicemen died in the Air Corps than the Marine

Corps. While completing the required 30 missions your chance

of being killed was 71%.



5. Generally speaking there was no such thing as an average

fighter pilot. You were either an ace or a target. For

instance Japanese ace Hiroyoshi Nishizawa shot down over 80

planes. He died while a passenger on a cargo plane.



6. It was a common practice on fighter planes to load every

5th round with a tracer round to aid in aiming. This was a

mistake. Tracers had different ballistics so (at long range)

if your tracers were hitting the target 80% of your rounds

were missing. Worse yet tracers instantly told your enemy

he was under fire and from which direction. Worst of all was

the practice of loading a string of tracers at the end of

the belt to tell you that you were out of ammo. This was

definitely not something you wanted to tell the enemy. Units

that stopped using tracers saw their success rate nearly

double and their loss rate go down.


YOU'VE GOT TO LOVE THIS ONE....


7. When allied armies reached the Rhine the first thing men

did was pee in it. This was pretty universal from the lowest

private to Winston Churchill (who made a big show of it) and

Gen. Patton (who had himself photographed in the act).



8. German Me-264 bombers were capable of bombing New York

City but it wasn't worth the effort.



9. German submarine U-120 was sunk by a malfunctioning toilet.



10. Among the first "Germans" captured at Normandy were several

Koreans. They had been forced to fight for the Japanese Army

until they were captured by the Russians and forced to fight

for the Russian Army until they were captured by the Germans

and forced to fight for the German Army until they were

captured by the US Army.



AND SAVING THE BEST FOR LAST....



11. Following a massive naval bombardment 35,000 US and

Canadian troops stormed ashore at Kiska. 21 troops were

killed in the firefight. It would have been worse if there

had been any Japanese on the island.
0 Replies
 
Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Apr, 2004 11:29 am
BillW wrote:
The said part is that Bush uses the VietNam lies to justify his lies - How do you justify lies Question

I don't know, Bill, how do you justify yours?
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Apr, 2004 11:46 am
Kerning is usually effective .................
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Apr, 2004 11:59 am
IF ONLY
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

Obama '08? - Discussion by sozobe
Let's get rid of the Electoral College - Discussion by Robert Gentel
McCain's VP: - Discussion by Cycloptichorn
The 2008 Democrat Convention - Discussion by Lash
McCain is blowing his election chances. - Discussion by McGentrix
Snowdon is a dummy - Discussion by cicerone imposter
Food Stamp Turkeys - Discussion by H2O MAN
TEA PARTY TO AMERICA: NOW WHAT?! - Discussion by farmerman
 
Copyright © 2025 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.04 seconds on 07/18/2025 at 06:26:48