THE US, THE UN AND IRAQ VI

Quote:

My take: if we had tackled Karimov's abuses of power at any point in the past ten years (we've had warnings enough), we wouldn't have had to see violent insurgents taking to suicide-bombings now.

But, if Bush needs a war in October, the American public will probably hop happily in line behind a campaign in Uzbekhistan.

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Death to Uzbekhistan! Twisted Evil

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nimh wrote:

But now what do we do?

Work to help those Iraqies who want it to achieve a strong representative democracy that loves and secures liberty. Upon achieving that, turn our attention to the then most serious threat to the survival of humanity.

I'm betting that success in Iraq, will breed success in neighboring nations when the people of neighboring nations realize that liberty can be achieved by the determined people among them.

The choices of Afganistan and Iraq as the best first steps toward liberty in the region is certainly open to honest argument and honest differences of opinion. However, those choices are better than a continuation of no choices. Someone once said that first one must work hard for a time to discern the right choice, then one must make a timely choice that one thinks is right; finally one must make that choice right.

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ican711nm wrote:

LYING PROPAGANDA Joseph Paul Goebbels style (1897 - 1945)

Gelisgesti wrote:
A taste of the liberated ....
Baghdad Burning
... I'll meet you 'round the bend my friend, where hearts can heal and souls can mend...
Monday, March 29, 2004
Tales from Abu Ghraib...

LYING PROPAGANDA Joseph Paul Goebbels style (1897 - 1945)

Hey doggie !!!! BITE ME [/size]

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McGentrix wrote:

Iraq is free at last

From The Guardian, no less Very Happy

Clever.

Seriously tho - thanks. Interesting.

theollady wrote:

Take a look at that LAST paragraph again, in part:

lack of affordable housing, followed by the lack of needed services for mental health and substance abuse problems, low-paying jobs, unemployment, domestic violence, poverty and prison release.

This is our country... Should a presidential leader worry about other countries before he sweeps his own doorstep?

The numbers you cite are shocking enough fersure, and lets forget the inane "lying propaganda!" shouts at them.

But seriously - are you saying the US should not bother with any involvement in foreign countries as long as there are abuses like this at home? No intervention in Kosovo, no war in Afghanistan, no aid to Liberia, no nuthin'?

I may not agree with the Iraq war but a return to isolationism strikes me as the worst answer to it.

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Gelisgesti wrote:

Hey doggie !!!! BITE ME [/size]

[size=26]OBVIOUSLY, I ALREADY DID Exclamation

[/size]

Now "y'all, try and wiggle your ears." Exclamation

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OCCOM BILL wrote:

Death to Uzbekhistan!

[size=8]Volcano for sale, cheap.[/size]

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You guys are a riot. Seriously, though, ican wrote:

*Someone once said that first one must work hard for a time to discern the right choice, then one must make a timely choice that one thinks is right; finally one must make that choice right."

I like that, except for the last line. What if one were to discover that despite good intentions and best efforts, the choice turns out to have been the wrong choice?

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You know, sumac-
It could be as tragic as turning wrong and plunging down a 3000 foot embankment to your death;
or turning wrong in the bed, and merely startling yourself to the tune of a lump on the elbow and head...

However, it you are musing that Dick Cheney, W bush and company went over ALL the "truth and consequences" with a fine tooth comb and resulted in the 'fair' solution that attacking Iraq was the best choice-----??? I just plain disagree, and think they have had a covert agenda even before being appointed by the SC.

nimh:
I always believe our country should be compassionate and reach out to others with aid and assistance.
But you read the stats on death in the USA, due to poor/no health care, due to exposure caused by homelessness, lonliness/depression/suicide arrived upon by way of joblessness.
Then read the stats on our Government Programs--- where they are spent, what they cover, why they even exist...
Big Government rarely even 'touches' the little guy- (until it taps him on the shoulder to 'come with me and carry a gun'.

I had reference MOSTLY to this costly and hasty war in Iraq, that is draining Billions from our country... and some of the monetary benefits are going into some pockets in our nation-- who will then buy the power to be our dictators, I fear.

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Quote:

However, it you are musing that Dick Cheney, W bush and company went over ALL the "truth and consequences" with a fine tooth comb and resulted in the 'fair' solution that attacking Iraq was the best choice-----??? I just plain disagree, and think they have had a covert agenda even before being appointed by the SC.

I believe that it is all summed up when Bush said "I hit the trifecta" - which, other that a totally evil and abomniable statement meant - "I can now pursue the course perviously decided on by my regime without and further need to try to find a true need to create a war with Iraq................." Vote November 2nd to oust this dictator and show him what true freedom means or take the course of fascism and blindly follow the leader(sic)!

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sumac wrote:

You guys are a riot. Seriously, though, ican wrote:

*Someone once said that first one must work hard for a time to discern the right choice, then one must make a timely choice that one thinks is right; finally one must make that choice right."

I like that, except for the last line. What if one were to discover that despite good intentions and best efforts, the choice turns out to have been the wrong choice?

In such case, the way one makes a bad choice right(i.e., correct) is to succeed in discovering a better choice from having made the bad choice.

Usually, in a search for that which works one makes several wrong choices before finally discovering the right choice. Failure to make a choice is a choice that leads to the discovery of the obvious. One can learn more by making a different choice than making no choice.

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theollady wrote:

However, it you are musing that Dick Cheney, W bush and company went over ALL the "truth and consequences" with a fine tooth comb and resulted in the 'fair' solution that attacking Iraq was the best choice-----??? I just plain disagree, and think they have had a covert agenda even before being appointed by the SC.

[emphasis added by me]

Ah Hah Exclamation

So you're one of them too!

FACT: Federal election law prohibits changing the rules of an election after that election has been held.

FACT: The Florida Supreme Court decided to do just that.

FACT: The US Supreme Court stopped them from doing just that.

In other words the Florida Supreme Court attempted to assist Gore to steal the election from Bush. They failed. All those who attempted to perpetrate this crime along with the Florida Supremes are accusing their intended victim, Bush, of stealing that which they themselves were actually trying to steal.

ALSO FACT: Federal law requires all the legal votes of absentee military personnel to be counted even when their votes are delivered late to the polls by military transportation after election day.

ALSO FACT: Several Democrat Party run polling districts attempted to not count these absentee military personnel votes despite court orders to count them. Some of these absentee military personnel votes have not been counted to this day.

ALSO FACT: All but one subsequent vote count performed by various media organized vote counting groups ratified Bush's election. The one vote counting group that did not ratify Bush's election, employed their own unique rules for deciding whether a vote was void (i.e., a flawed vote for Bush) or a vote for Gore.

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Facts rarely hinder, or even much influence, partisan agenda. Damned inconvenient things sometimes, facts are. Its so much easier to ignore them, or to selectively snip them from context in order to fit them to a preconceived notion ... makes a much stronger-appearing arument, you know.

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Especially, if they are selective..................

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It's also a fact that the Harris woman, working for Jeb Bush, had the Florida voters roll stripped of tens of thousands of black voters, most of whom would vote D, illegally.

Does that fact fit in anywhere here?

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BillW wrote:

Especially, if they are selective..................

Partisan agenda are selective by nature. :wink:

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And, during the recount the Bush clan imported many, many thugs (some who were even Judges) from out of county and out of state to bang on windows, intimidate counters, and preform other criminal tactics to stymie the vote - FACT (only one of thousands)

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timberlandko wrote:

Facts rarely hinder, or even much influence, partisan agenda. Damned inconvenient things sometimes, facts are. Its so much easier to ignore them, or to selectively snip them from context in order to fit them to a preconceived notion ... makes a much stronger-appearing arument, you know.

Damned convenient to claim facts aren't facts without providing any supporting evidence to show the claim valid.

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Scrat wrote:

BillW wrote:
Especially, if they are selective..................

Partisan agenda are selective by nature. :wink:

Since we are playing children games again -

DUH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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BillW wrote:

And, during the recount the Bush clan imported many, many thugs (some who were even Judges) from out of county and out of state to bang on windows, intimidate counters, and preform other criminal tactics to stymie the vote - FACT (only one of thousands)

FACT: The DNC (i.e., The Democratic National Committee) solicited trial lawyers from all over the country to go to Florida and audit the vote recounts and determine what legal action they could take. This I know from personal experience. A group of such lawyers contacted my company to provide a charter flight to Florida from Texas to do just that. They stated their exact purpose in an attempted inducement to us to cancel our previously scheduled charter flight for others to another city in Texas.

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THE US, THE UN AND IRAQ VI

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