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THE US, THE UN AND IRAQ VI

 
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Jan, 2004 09:22 am
I listened to a radio interview this morning between Jack Straw (UK foreign secretary) and John Humphreys, BBC journalist famous for his fairly tough questioning and abrupt manner.

I thought good for you John, you got as near as anyone ever has in nailing the bastard.

I went back to the BBC website and listened to the interview again. You should be able to find it here

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/today/index.shtml?focuswin

But I was so intrigued by what Straw said I decided to try and make a transcript, and added my own comments (in blue). Humphreys (in green) Straw (in black)

War on false prospectus?
If so who is to blame, politicians or intelligence agencies?


Why we took military action. To enforce the will of the UN 1441 8/11/2002. International community concluded Iraq threat to int. peace. 1441 laid down a scheme for Iraq to get into compliance. This is what have to do. This is by when. If you don’t (in material breach) serious consequences to follow.

Also Dr Blix report of Jan 27 2003. I wont be part of re writing of history to suggest we went to war on a contingency. There was nothing in 1441 that Saddam could not have complied with.

Disappointed (personally) further evidence has not come forward to support what rest of the world "genuinely believed" about weapons programs and weapons stockpiles.

Example northern Ireland after 30 years still no PIRA stockpiles weapons.

Straw did not accept the premise of the question, i.e. that we went to war on a false prospectus. He said we went to war on the basis of 1441 and what we "genuinely believed" about Saddam's wmd. But of course 1441 was not a justification for war. And no matter how hard you "genuinely believed" something before the event, it does not make it right after the event when its proved wrong. The best that can be said is that it was an honest mistake.

Humph. Never had wmd.

Straw right but stockpiles bigger that bio weapons

Straw Anthrax. Was concerned by previous UNSCOM report on Iraq that charted areas of further investigation. UNMOVIC said 10000 lit anthrax not destroyed. The size of only a single petrol tanker.

Straw says how concerned he was about "unaccounted for" wmd. But as Blix has pointed out, just because they are unaccounted for does not mean they exist. The UNMOVIC reports were the best at the time guess about what Iraq might have. After the invasion we saw what Iraq actually did have, i.e. nothing.

Hump but it was not found. Kay said they did not exist. Not just not found but did not exist past tense. New head of ISG says doubtful if did exit. Therefore did we go to war on a false prospectus. Could we have made a mistake?

Straw Kay says many unresolved issues. Maybe some gone to Syria

Hump this was denied by Syria.

Straw just makes the point that WMD issue is not finally resolved and changes the subject.

Straw The question is was decision by house of commons 18 mar. justified in light of events. Yes.

Humphreys Even if no wmd. And Iraq did not pose threat to us.

Straw. Not getting into that mode of speculation.

This is amazing. The issue of whether or not Iraqi wmd posed a threat to this country was central to the issue and to the debate. It was the justification for the war. But Straw dismisses it as speculation.



Hump Why not its crucial?

And Straw changes back to his original point about the reasons for war being failure to comply with 1441.

Straw The basis was Saddam's failure to comply with 1441

Hump But TB said threat real and current threat. Saddam had wmd deploy in 45 min. That was the picture TB painted for this country.

Straw We were all concerned. Int. community was concerned. Also Britain. Not prepared to go into Hutton.

Straw says he is not prepared to pre-empt the Hutton enquiry, when this discussion has nothing to do with Hutton, a diversionary tactic.

Hump real and current threat to this country from wmd. But was wrong. TB said serious and current threat. Proved wrong after looking

Straw H of c resolution expressed profound concern about Saddam's failure to meet 1441. 1441 was whole basis for the action.

This is also amazing. Straw now says 1441 was the whole basis for the action. So wmd had nothing to do with it!?

Britain wanted peaceful resolution as late as 7 March 2003.

18 March resolution in h of c was justified then and is still more justified now.





Iraq has been liberated from terrible tyranny. Reasons were wmd.

And now he contradicts what he said a minute ago because he brings in wmd again.

Never said Saddam posed imminent threat to UK…

Here Straw is again using weasel words, pointing out the Govt. never said Saddam posed an imminent threat to the UK. But as Humphreys goes on to say…

Hump serious and current threat? TB said (in the House) "the threat was real and growing and of an entirely different nature than Britain had ever faced before".

So Straw changes tack again and talks about getting rid of an evil dictator, and the good things that have resulted from that.

Removed terrible tyrant lots of graves found. Established representative Govt. Also good side effects Libya full declaration. Iran the same. Moves in north Korea. If no intervention.

What ifs important. If no action if walked away like some members of sec council Saddam would have been re-emboldened and threat to the region.

UN authority would have been undermined.

What he means here is that 1441 would not have been followed through. But 1441 only called for serious consequences not war. It meant another resolution, specifically authorising war had to be passed before war was legitimate. Straw tried very hard for this, but failed to get the so called "second resolution". But Britain went to war anyway….so who is undermining the authority of the UN?

ME security and therefore our security would have been threatened.

Here Straw is trying to bring in the pre-emptive argument. That Saddam would pose a threat if left in place. The idea of pre-emption was specifically ruled out as a reason for going to war. Blair even said that Saddam could remain in power provided he gave up his illegal wmd.

Hump Was it justified on basis of no wmd?

Straw war was justified. Kay says many unresolved issues. Go to UNMOVIC website. If no weapons how to explain Saddam refused to co-operate?

Humphreys Saddam was co-operating at the time inspectors withdrawn.

We wanted to give Blix more time. That was the purpose of my speech (to UN) and moving of second res. on 7th March.

This is a lie as far as I can work out. It was France and Germany that wanted to give Blix and his team more time. Britain was desperate for the second resolution specifically authorising force to give international legality to the action that was about to take place. They never got it. And war went ahead to schedule forcing the withdrawal of the inspectors for their own safety.



Since Saddam had had several deadlines. If we had got that resolution through military action would not have been necessary as Saddam's regime would have collapsed.

Here Straw is saying that had they got a resolution through that did actually authorise war (the implication is of course that previous resolutions notably 1441 had not done so), then war itself would not have been necessary. Saddam would have realised the game was up, and his regime would have collapsed.

This is ridiculous. To avoid war Saddam would have been forced to co-operate. But as he had been co-operating with the UN, that would not have meant much hardship. The end result would have been a disarmed Iraq, with Saddam still in place. But this was unacceptable to the US, who wanted Saddam out by any means. Although Britain obviously suffered a blow by not getting the second resolution, the US was not at all concerned as they never considered it necessary before launching the attack.


Straw More evidence over time of wmd. Many unresolved issues.

Again Straw tries to say the wmd is not dead. But as it's impossible to prove a negative, i.e. give definitive proof that Iraq has no wmd, the issue never can be absolutely resolved. Before the war the Americans demanded a full declaration of all Iraqi equipment. They produced 12000 pages of documents. But it couldn't prove that they didn't have wmd, and the Americans and the Brits decided to believe they did. The difference now is that it’s the American Iraq Survey Group who are saying to the American govt. Iraq is clean of wmd. You might think that would carry more weight. But Britain and America are still able to draw out the argument because no matter who says it, it is not possible to prove a negative. Saddam couldn’t and neither can the ISG. It suits the coalition to a certain extent. The longer we waste time on it, the more people forget and the real reasons for invading Iraq get lost in the mists of time.

Straw The question is - "Was decision to take military action justified?"… I believe that it was.

This was Straw's final shot. Was it justified? He believes it was. Therefore it was justified. QED.

We are asked to believe that Britain and America made an honest mistake in invading Iraq. But having mistakenly gone to war we find we do not have to apologise, because a lot of good things came out of it anyway. Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Jan, 2004 09:58 am
Thanks a lot, Steve, for posting the link and especially for your comments on this interview Exclamation
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Jan, 2004 10:41 am
Quote:
Ousting Saddam 'no cause for war'
The reasons for the war are still being questioned
A leading human rights group has said the US and UK are wrong to use the toppling of a brutal regime in Baghdad to justify going to war against Iraq.

The group, Human Rights Watch asked why George Bush and Tony Blair did not try remove Saddam Hussein much earlier.

Its report comes as the former US chief weapons inspector questioned the CIA's assessment of the threat from Iraq.

Tony Blair is also under pressure, awaiting the findings of an inquiry into the death of a UK weapons expert.

Mr Blair and Mr Bush have come under increasing pressure from critics of the war over their failure to produce convincing evidence that Saddam Hussein possessed banned weapons of mass destruction.

In its annual World Report, the New York-based Human Rights Watch also said:

* Human rights are deteriorating in Afghanistan due to a reliance by US-led forces on warlords to defeat Taleban and al-Qaeda fighters

* The Bush administration uses threats to national security to justify putting executive action in the United States above the law

* Russian authorities justify the war in Chechnya as their contribution to the war on terror, while European and other governments ignore appalling human rights abuses there

* There was a "moment of hope" in Africa with African leaders trying to stop regional wars and the associated abuses, through bodies like the African Union

Flawed justification

Human Rights Watch said Mr Bush and Mr Blair should not try to justify the war retrospectively as an effort to save human life.


The Bush administration cannot justify the war in Iraq as a humanitarian intervention, and neither can Tony Blair
Human Rights Watch
"Only mass slaughter might permit the deliberate taking of life in using military force for humanitarian purposes," it said.

"Brutal as Saddam Hussein's reign had been, the scope of the Iraq Government's killing in March 2003, was not of the exceptional and dire magnitude that would justify humanitarian intervention.

"The Bush administration cannot justify the war in Iraq as a humanitarian intervention, and neither can Tony Blair."

In a US radio interview on Monday, the former chief US weapons inspector David Kay cast further doubt on the existence in Iraq of banned weapons of mass destruction.

Mr Kay said he thought the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) owed Mr Bush an explanation for warnings about the threat Iraq posed.

The issue is also stalking Mr Blair, whose political future depends on the findings of a report to be released on Wednesday which will examine claims he exaggerated the threat from Iraq.


Source
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Jan, 2004 11:32 am
Kara, I read your last post. Isn't it interesting that nobody questions the millions being spent to look for nonexistent WMD's while our children go without health care and school funding? In today's local newspaper, it has an article about more republicans and school administrators complain about Bush's "Leave no child behind" mandate without sufficient funding to comply. I think I heard last week that Virginia (or one of the eastern states) asking to opt out of "Leave no child behind" just because they can't afford it. Many local communities in our area are closing schools. It seems Bush's "Leave on child behind" is starting to "Leave no school behind." I only have one question, "why are most American parents still supporting this president?"
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Jan, 2004 02:43 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
Kara, I read your last post. Isn't it interesting that nobody questions the millions being spent to look for nonexistent WMD's while our children go without health care and school funding? In today's local newspaper, it has an article about more republicans and school administrators complain about Bush's "Leave no child behind" mandate without sufficient funding to comply. I think I heard last week that Virginia (or one of the eastern states) asking to opt out of "Leave no child behind" just because they can't afford it. Many local communities in our area are closing schools. It seems Bush's "Leave on child behind" is starting to "Leave no school behind." I only have one question, "why are most American parents still supporting this president?"


Here's one reason...

Think Bush is a big spender? Wait till you see what the Dems propose.

The seven remaining Democrat presidential challengers have decried the size of the mounting Bush budget deficits. However, a closer look at their own platforms reveals an inconvenient fact: the budget shortfalls they're complaining about on the road to the White House would only deepen under their own policies.

The National Taxpayers Union Foundation has systematically examined the fiscal policy implications of the contenders' agendas, using our BillTally budget software and relying on third-party sources (such as the Congressional Budget Office) to assign a cost to every proposal they've offered. We found that each candidate (including Dick Gephardt, who dropped out of the race after we released the study) calls for spending increases which would substantially swell the deficit--on average, an additional $479.23 billion beyond the present projection, which is effectively a 21.5% increase in federal spending.

Each of the Democrats has at one time called for full or partial repeal of the Bush tax cut, as if this were a panacea for federal budgetary woes and a license to introduce new proposals. Even by the most generous estimates, the projected federal revenue reduction in 2004 as a result of the 2003 tax cuts is $135 billion--yet, the thriftiest of the Democratic platforms calls for $170 billion in new spending. Howard Dean has labeled himself a "fiscal conservative," but his policies--including complete repeal of the Bush tax cuts--would increase the federal deficit by $88 billion in just the first year.

Where would the candidates cut? Someone hid the knives. Out of well over 200 proposals with a budgetary impact offered by the candidates, just two would reduce federal spending. Nor do these alarming figures account for the fact that the temptation to spend even more money can be much greater after entering the White House. Consider President Bush, who, after campaigning as a fiscal conservative, has seen federal spending increase by 23.7% over the past three years. Even the most parsimonious of the candidates eclipses that total by over 15%.

Pity the American taxpayer.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Jan, 2004 02:49 pm
McGent, I don't understand your point. Bush's don't tax and spend only deepens our national debt. At least the democrats are talking about doing away with Bush's "no tax" and spend plan.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Jan, 2004 02:52 pm
No, you are complaining that Bush spends too much money and that he should be replaced...by whom? Those that would spend MORE money?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Jan, 2004 05:20 pm
They can spend more money if they have more revenue. Bush spends money while reducing the revenue. Following Bush's pattern only increases the national debt that carries forward to the future. Basic economic rule tells us that's poor financial management.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Jan, 2004 06:49 pm
Good news.
**********
Federal Judge Strikes Down Part of Patriot Act
2 hours, 57 minutes ago Add Top Stories - Reuters to My Yahoo!


By Dan Whitcomb

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - A federal judge in Los Angeles has struck down as too vague part of the Patriot Act that bars providing "expert advice and assistance" to foreign terrorist groups -- marking the first time a court has declared part of the law unconstitutional.



The written ruling by U.S. District Judge Audrey B. Collins, came in a 2003 challenge to the Patriot Act by five organizations and two individuals who sought to support Kurds in Turkey and Tamils in Sri Lanka.


"The ruling is significant in that it strikes the statute down as being in violation of the Fifth and First Amendments," David Cole, a Georgetown University law professor who argued the case for the Humanitarian Law Project.


"It underscores what so many have said all along about the Patriot Act -- that Congress, in acting so hastily after 9-11, swept far too broadly and didn't pay significant attention to constitutional rights and liberties," he said.



A U.S. Department of Justice (news - web sites) spokesman said in a written statement that attorneys there were reviewing the decision.


"The Patriot Act is an essential tool in the war on terror, and has played a key part -- and often the leading role -- in a number of successful operations to protect innocent Americans from the deadly plans of terrorists dedicated to destroying America and our way of life," Justice Department spokesman Mark Corallo said.


"The provision at issue in today's decision was a modest amendment to a preexisting anti-terrorism law that was designed to deal with real threats caused by support of terrorist groups," he said. "By targeting those who provide material support by providing 'expert advice or assistance,' the law made clear that Americans are threatened as much by the person who teaches a terrorist to build a bomb as by the one who pushes the button."


Collins, who was appointed to the federal bench by former President Bill Clinton (news - web sites), wrote in her 36-page ruling, which was made public on Monday, that the Patriot Act was too vague when it attempted to bar "expert advice or assistance" to groups designated as terrorist by the U.S. government.


"...The USA Patriot Act places no limitation on the type of expert advice and assistance which is prohibited and instead bans the provision of all expert advice and assistance regardless of its nature," Collins said in the ruling.


But Collins rejected arguments by the plaintiffs that the law was overbroad and that it gave the Secretary of State "virtually unreviewable authority" to designate groups as terrorist.
0 Replies
 
theollady
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Jan, 2004 08:24 pm
McGentrix,

I believe you want to vote for and keep 'George Bush the republican in office'
and you do not NEED to argue deficit spending as the reason.

I am not of ANY party... and I do not like BIG government, nor big spending. And my reasons for disliking the present administration has been 'spelled out' here, SO MUCH I wont repeat it.

Most of our problem with the SPENDING under George Bush 2, is that it is used for aggressive war that we did not want.
The war and it's reasons WERE CLEARLY:

HEY FOLKS, OUR NATION IS IN DANGER.

A MONSTER HAS WEAPONS THAT WILL KILL US WITHOUT EVEN STRIKING OUR "PERSON".

MASSIVE POISONS, DIRTY BOMBS, ETC ETC ETC.

HE HAS ALREADY STRUCK US SEVERAL TIMES INCLUDING 9/11.

IF YOU DO NOT THINK WE SHOULD GO GET HIM, THEN YOU ARE UNAMERICAN.

THE MAN KILLS AND KILLS-- HE MUST BE STOPPED!

(Of course, this so called "coalition" has killed by the thousands, and have not improved either the USA OR IRAQ.)

I do not believe many in this administration- TO BE OF SERVICE TO THE USA.
They are self-serving liars and cold-hearted parasites, clinging to sap all they can from the working man-- irregardless of his country of origin, age or gender.

I will vote, if I can stand or get to a poll. I do not know what will be DONE with the votes, once we have 'cast' them.
Life in the USA has made me skeptical and pessimistic.
I pray there will be enough voting with me to remove this administration forever...
every one connected with it.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Jan, 2004 09:00 pm
theollady, Imwithu.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jan, 2004 03:13 am
I don't think I've ever posted the same on 2 threads but there's a first for everything. 5 minutes ago I wrote

I've been listening to BBC reports of your New Hampshire primaries. Sounds like the democrats are on a roll. Up till now I gave them no chance. Resigned to 4 more years of Mr Bush strutting his stuff.

But I learn 35 million Americans live in poverty. In the worlds richest, most powerful most aggressive most debt ridden country...that's enough reason for America's sake.

Now please listen for one moment. I dont have a vote in November. So I'm asking you, no pleading with you for my sake no ordering you GET RID OF THIS ADMINISTRATION, or Pistof and I will be seriously Evil or Very Mad
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jan, 2004 06:23 am
How many times do they have to lie to get it right????

Quote:


Source
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jan, 2004 06:32 am
Quote:
Hope and Fear Greet Sistani's Rise

By Jefferson Morley
washingtonpost.com Staff Writer
Monday, January 26, 2004; 6:11 PM

With U.S. policy in Iraq rapidly evolving, the international online media is focusing on the emergence of Grand Ayatollah Ali Sistani as the preeminent domestic political force in the country. The announced end of the U.S. occupation this summer is generally welcomed, but Sistani's stated goal of direct elections for a government to take power on June 30 is provoking both hope and fear.


The editors of the Daily Star in Beirut, Lebanon, expressed a hopeful view this weekend. They praised Sistani for calling off demonstrations advocating quick elections until a United Nations team decides whether or not a vote is feasible.

Sistani's action, says the Daily Star, provides Washington with the opportunity "to make an equally meaningful gesture that could help navigate a way out of the stalemate in the country."

"The United States has tacitly and operationally acknowledged that it needs the help of many others to remedy this situation, especially in its request for U.N. assistance in the transition to Iraqi sovereignty. Whether this reflects good old American pragmatism or good old American domestic political panic should be irrelevant," the editorial states. "The important thing now is for Washington to respond to Sistani's gesture with something equally constructive and realistic."

They offer two suggestions:

"Washington could adopt a more humble attitude and admit that its end-of-June timetable for the initial transition can and should be revised ... The second possible move is for the U.S. to understand that the states bordering Iraq, especially the Arab states, can assist Iraq in its transition."

Columnist Hani Fahs, writing in the London-based Arab nationalist daily Dar al Hayat , says "Sistani has enough experience and knowledge of the fragility of the Iraqi scene to acknowledge the diversity of Iraq and of the Shiites themselves."

In Fahs' view, Sistani is "a reasonable religious figure" who provides "a guarantee that Iraq will not be led to unknown adventures and risks. This does not imply surrender but patience and wisdom, which is enforced by a will for independence, sovereignty and freedom and a readiness to use all, and any, means necessary -- at the right time."

Walid Khadduri, editor in chief of the London-based Middle East Economic Survey, is not as optimistic about Sistani's agenda. After a recent visit to Iraq he found that "many middle class and professional Iraqis are worried that elections in the next few months will polarize society even further rather than resolve issues."

"Uppermost in many people's minds is the fact that the U.S. appears to be favoring the religious establishment and tribal leaders at the expense of the middle class and secularists. These new elites are conservative by nature and their outlook is parochial at best," Khadduri writes. "Their interests do not transcend their local communities, and hardly encompass a modern vision of a unified Iraq."

Khadduri fears that today's arrangements "appear to contain the seeds of a civil war."

"To simply call for elections and draw up a political process to hand over authority to a major religious group without a clearly defined relationship between the communities would lead to disaster. What is needed today is a political process through which the three main communities can learn to compromise with each other, accommodate differences and achieve national reconciliation - before elections are held, not afterwards," Khadduri suggests.

Azzaman, a leading Iraqi daily edited by a former Baath party member in London, is reporting that a group of leading Sunni clerics "accused unnamed political organisations of colluding with the occupation forces in order to improve their chances in the elections," according to the Iraqi Press Monitor. "As long as the occupiers remain, said the Board, we cannot rely on elections. "

(The Iraqi Press Monitor, a valuable new service, is published by the London-based International War and Peace Reporting project. The staff summarizes stories from 13 newspapers now distributed in Baghdad.)

And Iraq's Kurds are even more alarmed, if the views of Khasraw Saleh Koyi in the Kurdistan Observer are any indication. When the Bush administration set the goal of ending the U.S. occupation by this summer, the Shiite clerics "began sharpening their swords to scapegoat both the Kurds (their partners in suffering and struggle) and the Americans (their liberators)."

The Shiites, Koyi argues, resent the Kurds because they are not Arabs and because they are pro-American.

"Kurds believe that if necessary, Arabs will use the collective powers of their 22 U.N. votes, as well as the oil and other strategic leverages they possess to oblige US into 'once again' betraying the Kurds; ... If the U.S. Administration ever decided to give in to such Arab pressures, it will 'effectively' drive a dagger of betrayal into the back of the Kurdish nation."

The fears of the online commentators that the United States will acquiesce to Sistani's vision of a Shiite-dominated Iraq amounts to a remarkable inversion of events 20 years ago.

In early 1984, the goal of U.S. policy in the Persian Gulf was to check Shiite influence in the region. In March of that year, the Reagan administration dispatched then-former defense secretary Donald Rumsfeld as special envoy to meet with Saddam Hussein and his foreign minister Tariq Aziz to assure them of U.S. support in their war against Iran's revolutionary regime.

Twenty years later, Hussein and Aziz are in U.S. custody, awaiting trial for war crimes, and the Coalition Provisional Authority, which reports to again-Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld, is by all accounts seeking accommodation with the Iranian-backed Shiites.


Source
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jan, 2004 09:57 am
For those that may be interested ............ public 9/11 hearing now on C-SPAN II
0 Replies
 
Kara
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jan, 2004 09:12 pm
Quote:
Now please listen for one moment. I dont have a vote in November. So I'm asking you, no pleading with you for my sake no ordering you GET RID OF THIS ADMINISTRATION, or Pistof and I will be seriously ...



LOL, Steve.

Some of us have been working on this regime change for quite a while. We'll keep you posted.

Sounds like your PM dodged a bullet, today.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jan, 2004 10:07 pm
From Reuters, "Bush said that, in any event, toppling Saddam was a just cause given his refusal to comply with U.N. demands in a post-Sept. 11, 2001, world." It's okay for the US to preemptively attack a country to kill it's leader and over 10,000 innocent lives to accomplish that task. What's wrong with this picture? Maybe, nobody knows.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Jan, 2004 02:55 am
Kara,

Yes Blair survived the vote.

And a leaked copy of the Hutton report in the Sun (a report into amongst other things, leaks, how ironic is that?) says that Tony Blair is completely innocent of genocide.

That he brushes he teeth after every meal, and in every way is a thoroughly decent bloke, especially in his dealings with Rupert Murdoch, owner of the Sun.
0 Replies
 
pistoff
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Jan, 2004 06:57 am
Americans stupid and morally bankrupt?
Yeah, I really believe that many are just that.

Honesty: Most Americans don't give a damn about Iraqis or Afghans. A million of them could be killed or maimed as long as no Americans are it isn't something that they are much concerned about. Even when Americans killed or maimed it seems that many Americans don't care much about those either. Most Americans are self centered and xenophobic.

Around 50% of Americans are apathetic and pathetic. They don't care about much except that they have jobs and fun. They don't care about other Americans either, like the Working Poor, The Poor and the Homeless. They look down on these people.

If I were to go to another country, I would say that I am from Canada. I am embarassed to say that I am an American.

Most Americans don't care when a Pres lies to them, excpet if it's about a sexual matter. They are offended then. If it's about war or the deficit or anything else political they just ignore it.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Jan, 2004 11:41 am
That about covers it, pistoff. Kinda discouraging, isn't it?
0 Replies
 
 

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