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THE US, THE UN AND IRAQ VI

 
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 May, 2004 06:02 am
You guys on the right are making self fulfilling prophesies. Naturally, the more you attack and insult other nations, the more they are apt to strike back. By changing presidents, we will not be automatically defusing a Republican caused crisis, but will at least be able to restore sanity to the approach to dealing with it. Bush, Inc has created more terrorists than it has been able to kill. Any new president will have to be tough and persistent to handle the Bush mistakes. The fighting will go on long after most of us are dead, I am pretty sure, no matter who wins the election.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 May, 2004 08:54 am
JamesMorrison wrote:
ican and mporter,

I too, am frustrated (forgive my subjective view), but this is directed towards a perceived opportunity lost by this administration. I too sense a once in a millennium opportunity to bring a better life to all in the ME quickly slipping away. The Bush administration shows signs of the dreaded procedure of cutting Iraq lose and pulling back beyond the horizon (Both Colin Powell and Bremer have said that if, after the turnover, the Iraqi people want us to leave we will...so much for "Staying the course"). This will be a disaster the likes this country has never seen.
...

But perhaps I am being too harsh, maybe Bush and his advisors are simply a day late and a dime short. But the latter assumption raises the specter involving the wisdom of changing horses in midstream.


JM, I think the same as you wrote in your first paragraph and hope the same as you wrote in your last. However, a choice between Bumbling Bush and Scairy Kerry is not a choice that gives me more than a modicum of hope unless we Americans acting individually and together vacate the damn complain-about-the-problem road and get back on the worthwhile problem defining and solving road. Yes, I'd rather someone like Zell Miller come to the rescue. But wishing does not make it so.

I recommend that we discuss here what we want our administration (whomever leads it) to do and how we want it to do it. I think that such good ideas as we are able to develop here will somehow be disseminated well beyond our little forum and contribute to getting our fellow Americans on the same path. Unfortunately for the human race, back in 1934 such discussion was not as easily achievable as now. I think it can and will help make things better. It cannot make things worse.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 May, 2004 09:19 am
edgarblythe wrote:
You guys on the right are making self fulfilling prophesies. Naturally, the more you attack and insult other nations, the more they are apt to strike back.


It is not other nations that are striking back. It is other nations that are sponsoring the TMM (i.e., Terroist Murderers and Maimers). They have done this for many reasons. The principal reason is fear that unless they sponsor the TMM, the TMM will turn on them.

It is the TMM reacting to a 1000 year decline of their culture. Republicans did not cause it. Democrats did not cause it. Clinton didn't cause it. Clinton tried to contain it and failed. Bush didn't cause it. Bush tried to replace it. Bush is failing, but not yet failed. Maybe it is not too late and we can yet help Bush and his successors succeed.

We, including me, keep talking about left-and-right as if there were but one dimension to this problem. I recommend you consider that there are at least two additional dimensions: back-and-forward; down-and-up.

back-and-forward: Do we keep repeating human civilization's multitude of errors over and over again expecting a different result, or do we go forward and try new strategies?

down-and-up: Do we descend to increasing the dependence of ourselves and all others on others for achieving our own happiness, or do we ascend to increasing the independence of ourselves and all others for achieving our individual happiness?

left-and-right : Do we distribute wealth uniformly, or do we allow wealth to be distributed according to what people choose to give to or receive from each other in their voluntary transactions.
0 Replies
 
BillW
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 May, 2004 09:36 am
The Bush War continues and it just gets sicker and sicker :sad:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1221658,00.html

Quote:
'US soldiers started to shoot us, one by one'

Survivors describe wedding massacre as generals refuse to apologise

Rory McCarthy in Ramadi
Friday May 21, 2004
The Guardian

The wedding feast was finished and the women had just led the young bride and groom away to their marriage tent for the night when Haleema Shihab heard the first sounds of the fighter jets screeching through the sky above.
It was 10.30pm in the remote village of Mukaradeeb by the Syrian border and the guests hurried back to their homes as the party ended. As sister-in-law of the groom, Mrs Shihab, 30, was to sleep with her husband and children in the house of the wedding party, the Rakat family villa. She was one of the few in the house who survived the night.

"The bombing started at 3am," she said yesterday from her bed in the emergency ward at Ramadi general hospital, 60 miles west of Baghdad. "We went out of the house and the American soldiers started to shoot us. They were shooting low on the ground and targeting us one by one," she said. She ran with her youngest child in her arms and her two young boys, Ali and Hamza, close behind. As she crossed the fields a shell exploded close to her, fracturing her legs and knocking her to the ground.

She lay there and a second round hit her on the right arm. By then her two boys lay dead. "I left them because they were dead," she said. One, she saw, had been decapitated by a shell.

"I fell into the mud and an American soldier came and kicked me. I pretended to be dead so he wouldn't kill me. My youngest child was alive next to me."

Mrs Shibab's description, backed by other witnesses, of an attack on a sleeping village is at odds with the American claim that they came under fire while targeting a suspected foreign fighter safe house.

She described how in the hours before dawn she watched as American troops destroyed the Rakat villa and the house next door, reducing the buildings to rubble.

Another relative carried Mrs Shihab and her surviving child to hospital. There she was told her husband Mohammed, the eldest of the Rakat sons, had also died.

As Mrs Shihab spoke she gestured with hands still daubed red-brown with the henna the women had used to decorate themselves for the wedding. Alongside her in the ward yesterday were three badly injured girls from the Rakat family: Khalood Mohammed, aged just a year and struggling for breath, Moaza Rakat, 12, and Iqbal Rakat, 15, whose right foot doctors had already amputated.

By the time the sun rose on Wednesday over the Rakat family house, the raid had claimed 42 lives, according to Hamdi Noor al-Alusi, manager of the al-Qaim general hospital, the nearest to the village.

Among the dead were 27 members of the extended Rakat family, their wedding guests and even the band of musicians hired to play at the ceremony, among them Hussein al-Ali from Ramadi, one of the most popular singers in western Iraq.

Dr Alusi said 11 of the dead were women and 14 were children. "I want to know why the Americans targeted this small village," he said by telephone. "These people are my patients. I know each one of them. What has caused this disaster?"

Despite the compelling testimony of Mrs Shihab, Dr Alusi and other wedding guests, the US military, faced with appar ent evidence of yet another scandal in Iraq, offered an inexplicably different account of the operation.

The military admitted there had been a raid on the village at 3am on Wednesday but said it had targeted a "suspected foreign fighter safe house".

"During the operation, coalition forces came under hostile fire and close air support was provided," it said in a statement. Soldiers at the scene then recovered weapons, Iraqi dinar and Syrian pounds (worth approximately £800), foreign passports and a "Satcom radio", presumably a satellite telephone.

"We took ground fire and we returned fire," said Brigadier General Mark Kimmitt, deputy director of operations for the US military in Iraq. "We estimate that around 40 were killed. But we operated within our rules of engagement."

Major General James Mattis, commander of the 1st Marine Division, was scathing of those who suggested a wedding party had been hit. "How many people go to the middle of the desert ... to hold a wedding 80 miles (130km) from the nearest civilisation? These were more than two dozen military-age males. Let's not be naive."

When reporters asked him about footage on Arabic television of a child's body being lowered into a grave, he replied: "I have not seen the pictures but bad things happen in wars. I don't have to apologise for the conduct of my men."

The celebration at Mukaradeeb was to be one of the biggest events of the year for a small village of just 25 houses. Haji Rakat, the father, had finally arranged a long-negotiated tribal union that would bring together two halves of one large extended family, the Rakats and the Sabahs.

Haji Rakat's second son, Ashad, would marry Rutba, a cousin from the Sabahs. In a second ceremony one of Ashad's female cousins, Sharifa, would marry a young Sabah boy, Munawar.

A large canvas awning had been set up in the garden of the Rakat villa to host the party. A band of musicians was called in, led by Hamid Abdullah, who runs the Music of Arts recording studio in Ramadi, the nearest major town.

He brought his friend Hussein al-Ali, a popular Iraqi singer who performs on Ramadi's own television channel. A handful of other musicians including the singer's brother Mohaned, played the drums and the keyboards.

The ceremonies began on Tuesday morning and stretched through until the late evening. "We were happy because of the wedding. People were dancing and making speeches," said Ma'athi Nawaf, 55, one of the neighbours.

Late in the evening the guests heard the sound of jets overhead. Then in the distance they saw the headlights of what appeared to be a military convoy heading their way across the desert.

The party ended at around 10.30pm and the neighbours left for their homes. At 3am the bombing began. "The first thing they bombed was the tent for the ceremony," said Mr Nawaf. "We saw the family running out of the house. The bombs were falling, destroying the whole area."

Armoured military vehicles then drove into the village, firing machine guns and supported by attack helicopters. "They started to shoot at the house and the people outside the house," he said.

Before dawn two large Chinook helicopters descended and offloaded dozens of troops. They appeared to set explosives in the Rakat house and the building next door and minutes later, just after the Chinooks left again, they exploded into rubble.

"I saw something that nobody ever saw in this world," said Mr Nawaf. "There were children's bodies cut into pieces, women cut into pieces, men cut into pieces."

Among the dead was his daughter Fatima Ma'athi, 25, and her two young boys, Raad, four, and Raed, six. "I found Raad dead in her arms. The other boy was lying beside her. I found only his head," he said. His sister Simoya, the wife of Haji Rakat, was also killed with her two daughters. "The Americans call these people foreign fighters. It is a lie. I just want one piece of evidence of what they are saying."

Remarkably among the survivors were the two married couples, who had been staying in tents away from the main house, and Haji Rakat himself, an elderly man who had gone to bed early in a nearby house.

From the mosques of Ramadi volunteers had been called to dig at the graveyard of the tribe, on the southern outskirts of the city.

There lay 27 graves: mounds of dirt each marked with a single square of crudely cut marble, a name scribbled in black paint. Some gave more than one name, and one, belonging to a woman Hamda Suleman, the briefest of explanations: "The American bombing."


Think maybe the Americans have now taught them good. Be careful, this may soon be border control in the American Southwest also Exclamation
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 May, 2004 12:23 pm
BillW wrote:
The Bush War continues and it just gets sicker and sicker :sad:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1221658,00.html

Quote:
'US soldiers started to shoot us, one by one'

Survivors describe wedding massacre as generals refuse to apologise ...


The following possibilities occur to me:
1. This story is fiction.
2. The American military made another mistake -- They thought those who were merely shooting in the air in celebration of a wedding at 2:45 a.m. were actually shooting at the Americans.
3. The American military motivated by pernicious envy decided to destroy those Iraqis having a good time.
4. Some of the Iraqis at the 2:45 a.m. gathering were there for the sole purpose of deceiving the Americans into performing what would appear to people everywhere to be another apparent atrocity.
5. Some of the inebriated Iraqis shot some of the other Iraqis accidentally.
6. Americans (except leftists) and America are evil and perpetrate evil whenever they can and wherever they go.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 May, 2004 12:51 pm
And. . .

7. Some people will believe anything it seems.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 May, 2004 12:58 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
And. . .

7. Some people will believe anything it seems.


Laughing Your truth is funnier than my fiction. :wink:
0 Replies
 
BillW
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 May, 2004 01:15 pm
Then, there's plain ole dopeheads.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 May, 2004 02:11 pm
BillW wrote:
Then, there's plain ole dopeheads.


www.m-w.com
Quote:
Main Entry: dope·head
Pronunciation: 'dOp-"hed
Function: noun
: a drug addict


Idea .... Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 May, 2004 03:01 pm
TO COMPLAIN ABOUT THE PROBLEM OR TO DEFINE IT AND SOLVE IT? -- That is the question.

The New U.S. Proposal for a Greater Middle East Initiative: An Evaluation
Middle East Memo #2, May 10, 2004
Tamara Cofman Wittes, Research Fellow, Saban Center for Middle East Policy
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
In late April, the United States presented to the G-8 "sherpas" a new set of proposals for a Greater Middle East Initiative (GMEI) to be adopted by the eight industrialized nations at their June summit in Sea Island, Georgia.* The initiative is part of President Bush's "forward strategy of freedom," by which the expansion of political rights and political participation in the Muslim world is meant to combat the appeal of Islamist extremism. The new draft proposals reflect real transatlantic engagement on the issue, but major differences in approach between the United States and its European partners remain. Moreover, as the debate over reform ripens within the Middle East, the G-8 proposals may run up against an increasingly wide gap between the reform visions articulated by Arab liberals and those articulated by some of the more hidebound Arab governments. How the G-8 proposals relate to this divergent discourse within the region will affect the credibility of all the G-8 states as they attempt to implement a pro-reform agenda in the Middle East.

Recognizing that external pressure for internal political change is always a difficult proposition, the more so in this case given America's negative image in the Muslim world, the Bush Administration has sought the support of European and other western countries for its project of region-wide democracy promotion. But the American initiative ran into stiff opposition from the outset. European governments are keen to protect their own reform initiatives, such as the European-Mediterranean dialogue begun in Barcelona in 1995 (which is focused on the Mediterranean littoral states rather than the "Greater Middle East," which stretches from Morocco to Pakistan). They are also skeptical that democracy can take root in the Middle East without significant changes in culture and society, so they prefer to speak of "modernization" rather than "democratization." Finally, European governments view the resentments and tensions in the Muslim world as rooted as much in the continued crises in Iraq and between Israelis and Palestinians as in Arabs' lack of freedom. They therefore emphasize the urgency and necessity of attention to the Middle East peace process parallel to pressure on Arab states for internal reforms.

An early draft of the US proposal was leaked in February to an Arabic newspaper, al-Hayat, raising an outcry among Arab leaders that America was attempting to impose external political models on the region. The State Department was compelled to spend its time reassuring Arab governments that this was not the case, instead of lobbying for its initiative. European governments responses to the proposal emphasized four key themes: the GMEI must not be viewed by Arabs as an imposition but rather must be a "partnership" between the region and the G-8; it must reflect and sustain a long-term commitment to the region and to the process of reform; it must be "inclusive"; and it must adopt a country-by-country approach, rather than a region-wide template.

The new American draft responds to European concerns about the project and, in a bow to Arab criticisms, is rooted in indigenous Arab calls for reform. The draft proposal includes five core components:


* A "Greater Middle East Forum for the Future" would provide a regular venue for discussion of reform goals and programs, and to promote cooperation between states on behalf of reform. The forum would also include business and civil society leaders to facilitate coalition-formation between these groups on behalf of reform efforts.



* A Greater Middle East Democracy Assistance Group would coordinate the efforts of the various American, European, and other foundations that sponsor non-governmental programs to build democracy. The National Endowment for Democracy and the German party-affiliated Stiftungs, for example, would participate in a concerted effort to maximize the effectiveness of their joint and independent programs in the region.



* A Greater Middle East Foundation for Democracy would go one step further, establishing a multilateral foundation modeled on the National Endowment for Democracy and focused on the Middle East.



* A Greater Middle East Literacy Corps would address one of the least controversial and most fundamental barriers to citizen participation in governance.



* A G-8 Microfinance Pilot Project would focus an existing French proposal for a microfinance initiative on the Middle East. By funding new small businesses across the region, the project hopes to build the middle-class foundation that democracies need to survive.




In addition to these concrete projects, the new proposal also lists "notional elements" that together form a broad array of pro-reform programs. These elements include civic education programs, parliamentary exchanges, women's leadership workshops, legal aid, media training, anti-corruption efforts, and labor union support. Each element is backed up by quotations from recent non-governmental calls for reform‹the Sana'a Declaration, the Alexandria Document, and the Arab Business Council communiqué‹that have emanated from the Middle East.

EVALUATION

It is clear from the new draft that other countries have begun to contribute ideas to the GMEI, although their ideas may be smaller in scale or less focused on political reform than the American ideas. The new draft also addresses two key concerns raised by European G-8 members. Responding to the European demand for reform to come through partnership, the new draft sets up the "Forum for the Future" as a mechanism for dialogue on reform between the West and the Middle East, but one that gives non-governmental actors a seat at the table. The new draft also answers the call of President Bush and others for a generational commitment to democracy in the Greater Middle East, by embedding its small-bore programs in a network of new institutions with their own funding and capacity. Such institutions, once created, might begin to take on a life and logic of their own, and with luck can insulate the project of democracy promotion in the Middle East from the swings of political fortune that have often doomed similar efforts in the past. While some G-8 partners may balk at the creation of so many new multilateral institutions, such components are what ensure that the GMEI is built in a way that is sustainable over the long term.

THE NEW GMEI PROPOSAL AND TRANSATLANTIC RELATIONS

The GMEI, as embodied in this new draft, still must overcome a fundamental difference of opinion between America and her western allies about the urgency and necessity of the reform project at a time of mounting crisis in Iraq and Israel/Palestine. While European officials, such as German Foreign Minister Joschka Fischer, have expressed the same concerns as President Bush about Arab stagnation fueling radicalism that threatens western interests, Fischer and others argue that the Arab-Israeli conflict is also a major source of radicalization, and therefore deserves equal attention to reform.

Moreover, European governments tend to emphasize the need for economic and social changes in the Arab world to precede any significant pressure for democratization. Shaped by the meager returns from their human rights and good-governance agenda in the Barcelona process, European governments tend to believe that cooperation in education, trade, and other areas is a prerequisite to major political reform, and that poverty and underdevelopment must be addressed before one can expect meaningful political participation. Socioeconomic modernization, of course, is a gradual process that is less responsive to concerted external pressure than political reform. Consequently (and conveniently), a modernization approach in the GMEI is less likely to provoke Arab government resistance than focused attention to democratic deficits such as emergency decrees, arbitrary detention, and press intimidation.

Even if valid in the case of relations between the Middle East and the West, relying on functional cooperation and economic development to produce political change is a very long-term strategy in an environment of tangible threats and mounting anti-western sentiment. To the extent that a socioeconomic focus was appropriate in an era when the main European concern about stagnation on its Arab southern periphery was that such stagnation would produce migrant labor flows to European countries, that focus may no longer be as relevant to a post-Madrid world, when anti-western terrorism is the primary threat.

But the lingering difference in emphasis in US and European nations on the urgency and necessity of the reform project mirrors in many ways the different perceptions of the urgency of the Iraqi threat prior to the war there. There is also the possibility that sustained transatlantic tensions over Iraq and the Middle East peace process are now making European governments less inclined to narrow differences and find harmony with the Bush Administration over the GMEI. All this suggests an enduring gap that will continue to bedevil US-European cooperation on security issues in the Greater Middle East. Contrary to the fondest wishes of transatlantic enthusiasts, Middle Eastern reform may not be a good issue through which to bridge the post-Iraq chasm between the United States and Europe; it may even widen it.

THE GMEI PROPOSAL AND ARAB POLITICS: THE TUNIS SUMMIT

In late May, before the G-8 convenes, the League of Arab States will hold their (rescheduled) annual summit. At that meeting, the Arab monarchs and presidents will have to decide what attitude they will jointly take toward the new, but apparently sincere and determined, American interest in reform of their sclerotic internal politics.

Up until now, the Bush Administration's rhetoric on Middle Eastern democracy has been far ahead of its policy, leading many Arab governments to wonder whether they needed to bother responding at all to American calls for reform that might, they suggested, simply be an election-year distraction from the troubles in Iraq. The February draft leaked to al-Hayat was sufficiently embryonic that some Arab leaders still argued, in the run-up to the aborted Arab summit (it was to have convened on March 29 in Tunis), that they could safely ignore it. Syria, typically, held down the denial-and-rejection pole (we don't have a problem, and if we do we don't want your help to solve it), with some support from Saudi Arabia and Egypt. Jordan, Qatar, and some North African governments pressed instead for a strong pro-reform statement, arguing that only a credible Arab embrace of the issue would preempt Washington and prevent it from issuing its own reform agenda for Arab states.

Disagreements on what, if anything, the Arab governments should jointly say about reform are precisely what led to the last-minute cancellation of the Arab League summit. The failure to achieve a unified Arab stance, especially in the face of mounting American pressure and clearly articulated demands from citizen groups, made the Arab governments look increasingly out of touch with reality.

Complicating Arab government deliberations at the Tunis summit is the recent proliferation of non-governmental reform conferences convening in the Middle East, many of which are producing their own, rather explicit, calls for reform of political, economic and social institutions. The combination of declining economic, political, and security conditions in the region and escalating western attention to them have emboldened the Arab world's fledgling liberal movement, producing non-governmental calls for reform that are unprecedented in their number, comprehensiveness, and explicit focus on democracy and freedom. One notable example was a conference convened at the Alexandria Library in Egypt in March, which produced a document demanding the cancellation of emergency laws, the lifting of restrictions on speech and association, and the transfer of authority from Arab states' traditionally dominant executive branch to elected legislatures and an independent judiciary.

The increasingly public and fertile discussion of reform across the region strongly suggests that liberals in the Arab world, long resigned to working within their flawed systems, are increasingly claiming an independent voice in the debate. Moreover, it suggests that discussion of the need for reform and its nature is no longer something that even the most recalcitrant Arab leaders can avoid. Thus, Egypt's Hosni Mubarak gave his official blessing to the Alexandria reform conference‹though he carefully avoided comment on its conclusions.

FROM TUNIS TO SEA ISLAND: HARD CHOICES AWAIT

The new GMEI draft reveals that the United States is no longer alone in its quest to address the region's acknowledged deficits in freedom, knowledge, and women's empowerment, but has engaged its European allies in a fruitful discussion of how to go about promoting reform. While the resulting proposals are modest, they will, at a minimum, supplement and provide multilateral endorsement for what may emerge as more aggressive unilateral American democracy projects. With the new draft proposals, the United States has thus begun to transform its rhetorical commitment into a policy that could have a life-span beyond the November elections.

But transatlantic differences of opinion and other ambiguities in the goal of reform have resulted in a GMEI that comprises a long menu of programs and ideas on issues both controversial and mundane. Much like the Bush Administration's Middle East Partnership Initiative, this menu will allow Arab governments to focus their "partnership" on issues more palatable to them and reject or ignore those that are unpalatable. A "cafeteria plan" for Middle Eastern reform is not likely to be effective in any of its core goals.

Thus far the United States, and the G-8 as a whole, have managed to avoid a central question in their quest to build a "partnership" for Arab reform: with whom do they seek to partner? Some argue that Arab civil society is too weak to serve as a partner, so that governments must be the main engine of reform. All of the G-8 countries are concerned with preserving Arab state cooperation in the war on terrorism, oil price stability, and other core issues. There is strong pressure to find a consensual path to government-led reform and give a secondary position to the still marginal voices of Arab liberal activists. At the same time, there is widespread recognition that only a few Arab regimes truly grasp the magnitude of the challenges they face and the changes required to face them ­ more common is the fear that significant shifting of economic and political power out of their hands will endanger their continued rule. Thus, if the West is serious about the need for reform, it may need to press some Arab governments well beyond their comfort level. While the draft GMEI suggests some small incentives for Arab governments to engage with the G-8 on reform questions, it does not address the concomitant need for G-8 states, singly or together, to develop a menu of positive and negative inducements for those Arab governments that will not take sufficient account of the West's security imperative in favor of Arab reform.

The echoing, in the American draft, of the Alexandria document and other non-governmental reform papers suggests that the United States is not willing to wait forever for Arab regimes to sign on to the reform ideas championed, increasingly vocally, by their own citizens. European governments, for their part, strongly prefer to work government-to-government and thus seem prepared to accept as a basis for cooperation whatever tepid reform statement upon which the fractious Arab League can agree.

But the contrast between Arab liberals' calls to action and the denial and dithering of many Arab leaders is growing ever starker. A failure by the United States and its G-8 partners to welcome these voices, or a western embrace of government visions of gradual reform over the liberals' democratic agenda, will further demolish America's credibility in the region and make it even more likely that the successors to the current generation of Arab autocrats will be decidedly anti-American in orientation. President Bush made a point of acknowledging, last November, the error in America's past support of Arab dictators‹but if the United States hews to top-down, government-led reform projects that do not produce greater political freedom for Arab citizens, then it will be repeating its past mistakes.

If Arab governments refuse to endorse a robust reform agenda at the Tunis summit, then the G-8 may face a painful choice in June: to follow the path of least resistance with Arab governments, and thereby to break faith with Arab liberals and others pressing for freedom and democracy; or to embrace the reform vision articulated by Arab activists, and thereby enter an era of greater tension and confrontation with Arab regimes on this and perhaps other important issues. As the lines of the reform battle within the Middle East become increasingly clear, it becomes more difficult for the United States and its western allies to avoid clarifying which side they are on.

*The new draft has not been publicly released, but has been described in the Washington Post, Financial Times and Los Angeles Times and widely circulated to foreign governments and non-governmental organizations for comment. This article is based on a copy of the GMEI text acquired from a non-American source. Surprisingly, given the controversy generated by the leak of the first draft, the new draft has not generated significant media discussion.


© Copyright 2004, The Brookings Institution
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 May, 2004 03:55 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
And. . .

7. Some people will believe anything it seems.


No, it happened all right. Women and children were deliberately killed by soldiers. A wedding party was shot up. Even the musicians were killed.

In common with the new video evidence from the Abu Graib jail brodcast here today, we have to face up to the fact that terrible crimes have been committed by the conquerors and would-be liberators of this land.

The sooner we, all of us, face up to this fact, the sooner we can begin to prepare a solution, and a way out. At the moment to me, it does not seem that there is an honourable way out.
0 Replies
 
BillW
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 May, 2004 03:59 pm
Yes there is - declare by the US and England to turn it over lock, stock and barrel to the UN and NATO - with absolutely no involement in the leadership..... Then rename it from the "Bush War" to the "Rebuilding of Iraq under moderate leadership".
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 May, 2004 04:25 pm
BillW wrote:
Yes there is - declare by the US and England to turn it over lock, stock and barrel to the UN and NATO - with absolutely no involement in the leadership..... Then rename it from the "Bush War" to the "Rebuilding of Iraq under moderate leadership".


Oh yeah, that. That would do it, I agree. No irony intended.

The irony lies in the fact of the double game being played out here. The "independence" being offered to Iraqis, and the "democracy", is of a very limited kind and not intended to prevent the US from ruling the country, self-financing the war from oil revenues, and having large permanent military bases there. AGAINST the will of the people, whatever democratic powers they may aspire to have, or are being promised. Hypocrisy.
0 Replies
 
BillW
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 May, 2004 04:38 pm
And, if you have any problem with that - we will raid your house and take all your stuff without a warrant......

Seems Saddam is still in power - make that SaBush or BushDam Exclamation
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 May, 2004 05:06 pm
Just heard on the radio that 37 prisoners in Iraq and Afghanistan were killed by their American guards. They are "investigating" those deaths, but only the lowly enlisted staff will pay the ultimate price of court martial and/or dishonorable discharge. Talk about the failure of leadership, the supporters of Bush can't see the forest for the trees.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 May, 2004 10:11 pm
UN Council, U.S. Try to Define Iraqi Sovereignty

Fri May 21, 7:17 PM ET Add Top Stories - Reuters to My Yahoo!


By Evelyn Leopold

UNITED NATIONS (Reuters) - The United States and Britain want a new U.N. resolution to call for full sovereignty in Iraq (news - web sites) but have not agreed to a firm date for foreign forces to leave the country, diplomats said on Friday.


At an informal meeting with the 15 U.N. Security Council members on Thursday, U.S. and British officials read from a text of "concepts" for the resolution. The paper was based in part on two earlier rounds of talks this month on Iraq's future when the U.S.-led occupation is to end on June 30.


A council diplomat said the resolution, not yet circulated, was expected to call for a "full transfer of sovereignty" on June 30 to an Iraqi caretaker government, which would then set its own limitations.


Such a government, for example, could not adopt any long-term legislation or agreements, except on a pact to alleviate the country's debt.


Debates have centered at the United Nations (news - web sites) and elsewhere on precisely what sovereignty means in view of a large U.S. military presence and obvious limitations on the government's power. Some ambassadors were concerned that the United Nations would be asked to approve an occupation under another name.


France, Germany and Pakistan had advocated setting a date for a "sunset" clause to end the mandate of a U.S.-led multinational force, which could be extended once a new Iraqi government was elected in January.


But Britain and the United States spoke of periodic reviews for the U.S.-led multinational force, the envoys said. They did not commit themselves to a specific date for ending the mandate and then renewing it, if requested.


"It might be helpful to have a certain period of time in which these things should be reviewed," Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage told CNN International.


But he said that any time period in the resolution "would be something which would call for a review" rather than a withdrawal of U.S. troops by a certain date.


However, the Bush administration agreed with France, Germany, Russia and others that Iraqi security forces could refuse to take part in operations ordered by U.S. commanders.


Armitage told a Senate committee on Tuesday that Iraqi troops, although under U.S. command, would be permitted to "opt out" of a military operation.


IRAQIS TO CONTROL OIL MONIES


The resolution would also state that Iraq would have control over its oil revenues. But it would keep in place an international advisory board, which audits accounts to encourage investors and donors that their money was being spent free of corruption, the envoys said.


Under a May 2003 Security Council resolution adopted after the fall of Saddam Hussein (news - web sites), all proceeds of Iraq's oil and gas sales were deposited into a special account called the Development Fund for Iraq, controlled by the U.S.-led Coalition Provisional Authority.


Compared to bitter disputes a year ago on the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq, participants contend there is little acrimony. But this may change when a text is distributed and after U.N. envoy Lakhdar Brahimi reports back on the leaders of an interim government he is attempting to form in consultation with U.S. officials.


"There is some more work to complete before tabling a text," said Britain's U.N. ambassador, Emyr Jones Parry, who hosted the meeting at his office.


Visiting Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi said in Washington on Thursday that a candidate had already been identified to head the interim government but had not yet accepted. He said Brahimi had also selected a backup.
0 Replies
 
Brand X
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 May, 2004 03:22 pm
Sadr's militia has fled Kerbala and the city is said to be quiet.


Weapons cache's are being siezed in Kufa.
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 May, 2004 12:23 am
"Fled" is an emotive word. Careful with the language.

Don't forget too, a lot of these fighters welcome martyrdom. Tricky blighters to fight against.
0 Replies
 
mporter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 May, 2004 01:18 am
The nation's premier scholar on Islam, Professor Bernard Lewis, has written:

quote

"In the classical Islamist view, to which many Muslims are beginning to return, he world and all mankind are divided into two: The House of Islam where the Muslim Law and faith prevail, and the rest, known as the House of Unbelief, WHICH IT IS THE DUTY OF MUSLIMS TO ULTIMATELY BRING TO ISLAM"

People who can read know that if the foremost Islamist Scholar in the USA is correct, then there will be no peace or surcease from the Terrorists until they destroy us or we destroy them.

Ican711 said it the other day:

"This is World War III"
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 May, 2004 07:06 am
General Anthony Zinni, on "Sixty Minutes" this evening, points out the obvious (to everyone except Bush and his toadies in and out of Washington):

Quote:
Accusing top Pentagon officials of "dereliction of duty," retired Marine Gen. Anthony Zinni says staying the course in Iraq isn't a reasonable option.

"The course is headed over Niagara Falls. I think it's time to change course a little bit or at least hold somebody responsible for putting you on this course," he tells CBS News Correspondent Steve Kroft in an interview to be broadcast on 60 Minutes, Sunday, May 23, at 7 p.m. ET/PT.

The current situation in Iraq was destined to happen, says Zinni, because planning for the war and its aftermath has been flawed all along.

"There has been poor strategic thinking in this...poor operational planning and execution on the ground," says Zinni, who served as commander-in-chief of the U.S. Central Command from 1997 to 2000.

Zinni blames the poor planning on the civilian policymakers in the administration, known as neo-conservatives, who saw the invasion as a way to stabilize the region and support Israel. He believes these people, who include Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz and Douglas Feith, the undersecretary of defense, have hijacked U.S. foreign policy.


There's got to be a Dead Pool somewhere on who is to go, odds and dates and the like....
0 Replies
 
 

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