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THE US, THE UN AND IRAQ VI

 
 
Brand X
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 May, 2004 09:08 am
Quote:
U.S. Raids Iraqi Party Headquarters, Council Says (Update3)
May 20 (Bloomberg) -- U.S. soldiers and Iraqi police today raided the headquarters of the Iraqi National Congress party in Baghdad, according to Hamid al-Kifai, spokesman for the country's U.S.-appointed Governing Council.

Ahmad Chalabi, a member of the Governing Council, founded and heads the party. Chalabi's home is in the same building as the party headquarters, al-Kifai said by telephone from Baghdad. Chalabi condemned the raid and said that, while no one was arrested, those who entered his home took items including computer equipment, files, papers, a Koran and prayer beads.

``When America treats its friends this way then they are in big trouble,'' Chalabi said in comments aired by Cable News Network. ``My relationship with the Coalition Provisional Authority now is non-existent.'' He said he wasn't threatening the U.S.

U.S. soldiers raided Chalabi's house to look for INC officials wanted by coalition authorities, the Associated Press said, citing Haidar Musawi, one of Chalabi's aides. The agency cited unidentified neighbors as saying members of Chalabi's entourage were taken away. Iraqi police accompanied American forces in surrounding the building, AP said.

The raid comes as attacks continue against coalition soldiers across Iraq. Two U.S. soldiers were killed in separate attacks in Baghdad and in Samarra, north of the capital, the military said. Spanish troops were ambushed in the south of Iraq, Spain's defense ministry said.

Funds Cut

Chalabi said he was calling for Iraqis to get ``complete control'' over the country's finances and armed forces.

``I'm calling for policies that would liberate the Iraqi people and give them full sovereignty now,'' Chalabi said. ``I'm doing this in a way they don't like,'' he added, referring to the coalition. Some of Chalabi's remarks were made in Arabic and translated on CNN by an interpreter.

U.S. funding for Chalabi's party will be ended ``by mutual consent,'' Chalabi said earlier this week. The U.S. says it's cutting off monthly payments to the INC as part of the process of handing over power. The New York Times said the INC receives $340,000 a month from the U.S.

U.S. funds were used to pay for an INC team of analysts in Washington that distributed a stream of reports on Saddam Hussein to the U.S. government before last year's war, the New York Times reported in February, citing government officials.

``We felt it was no longer appropriate for us to continue funding in that fashion, Deputy U.S. Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz said Tuesday, referring to the funding of the INC. ``There has been some very valuable intelligence that's been gathered through that process that's been very important for our forces, but we will seek to obtain that in the future through normal intelligence channels.''

Troops Attacked

Chalabi was once backed by the administration of U.S. President George W. Bush to lead the Iraqi government. He has since said Iraqis don't want to be occupied. The United Nations' top envoy to Iraq, Lakhdar Brahimi, said Chalabi is likely to be excluded when the U.S. hands over power to an interim leadership on June 30.

In the latest attacks on coalition forces, one U.S. soldier was killed and three were wounded early today in a hand-grenade attack on their unit in the center of Baghdad, the military said.

Another was killed, and one wounded when their patrol was attacked at about 5:30 p.m. yesterday in Samarra. A second soldier was wounded in Samarra while trying to put out a fire caused by an explosion during the attack, according to a military statement.


Source
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 May, 2004 09:10 am
Kara wrote:
This is a confirmed quote from Hermann Goering, speaking as he was interviewed in his jail cell by a German-speaking U.S. Army intelligence officer, Gustave Gilbert, during the Nuremberg trials.

The following conversation is from Gilbert's journal: ...

"All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger.

"It works the same way in any country."


Not discussed in this particular conversation is the other half of their technique applied with great success by the Nazis: They convinced the people in the neighboring countries which they were planning to invade that their leaders fears of Nazis invasion were unjustified. It worked like a charm. Their neighbors were easy or easier pickin's as a result.

Reality is a harder sell! Crying or Very sad
0 Replies
 
BillW
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 May, 2004 09:51 am
ican711nm wrote:


Not discussed in this particular conversation is the other half of their technique applied with great success by the Nazis: They convinced the people in the neighboring countries which they were planning to invade that their leaders fears of Nazis invasion were unjustified. It worked like a charm. Their neighbors were easy or easier pickin's as a result.

Reality is a harder sell! Crying or Very sad


Nice, a tactic used by Bush to invade Iraq.............
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 May, 2004 12:51 pm
ican711nm wrote:

... the Nazis: They convinced the people in the neighboring countries which they were planning to invade that their leaders fears of Nazis invasion were unjustified. It worked like a charm. Their neighbors were easy or easier pickin's as a result. ...


BillW wrote:
Nice, a tactic used by Bush to invade Iraq......
Laughing

Ok Bill, I'll play your game of Reversal!

[u][i][b]Reversal[/b][/i][/u] wrote:


While Bush was secretly planing to invade Afghanistan and Iraq, he convinced the Afghan and Iraqi people that their leaders' fears of US invasion of their countries were unjustified. Shocked

Bush did this by declaring to the UN that the US was going to invade those nations with or without UN support and destroy the Taliban and Baathist sponsors of TMMs (i.e., Terrorist Murderers and Maimers). Shocked

This completely fooled the people of Afghanistan and Iraq because they rationally reasoned from their own experience that no leader of any nation or group ever meant what she/he said. Shocked

The result was that the Taliban and the Baathist leaders were easy or easier pickin's. Shocked

The result of that was the Syrians and Iranians invaded Iraq because they were enraged at Bush's blatant disgusting deception. Shocked

Bush actually had the audacity to do what he repeatedly said he was going to do -- fully knowing it was a clear deception to behave that way -- because no leader had previously done what she/he repeatedly said she/he was going to do. Shocked

This kind of thing has got to be stopped. Shocked
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 May, 2004 04:20 pm
Quote:
The Phenomenon of Jihadism

Summary

A leading militant commander in Saudi Arabia has praised the May 1 attacks in the Red Sea port city of Yanbu. Details about the attack suggest that jihadism might be becoming a grassroots phenomenon. If so, the likelihood for and frequency of attacks against Western and government facilities in the kingdom and elsewhere will rise exponentially.

Analysis

Abdel Aziz al-Muqrin, Saudi Arabia's top jihadist leader, issued a statement May 6 praising the four Islamists who killed five Western employees of oil contracting company ABB Lummus in the Saudi city of Yanbu. Al-Mqurin urged other Saudis to follow their example and carefully plan, prepare and execute similar attacks.

Stratfor indicated last week that many independent jihadist groups had surfaced since the Sept. 11 attacks. The attack in Yanbu indicates that the phenomenon might be entering a new phase in which individuals acting alone or in small groups carry out attacks.

If true, the multitude of individuals influenced by al Qaeda and taking cues from other established groups will multiply, and Yanbu-style attacks are likely to become much more frequent.

The widespread belief has been that the loss of Afghanistan as a training ground put a dent into planning, preparation and execution of operations -- particularly by novices. A successful operation entails avoiding detection, engaging in surveillance
and training in weapons and explosives.

It appears that those at the helm of the Islamist militant movement had contingency plans prepared in the event they lost Afghanistan. Examining the behavior of the non-Afghan fighters during the U.S. military campaign in fall 2001, there did not appear to be much of an actual al Qaeda presence. Those who stood their ground and fought the Americans were either Taliban or non-Afghans foot soldiers. The veterans of al Qaeda training camps relocated into other states before and during the war.

There have been reports that hundreds of al Qaeda operatives made their way to other countries once they reached the Pakistani port city of Karachi. Those 600 or so in custody at the detention facility at Guantanamo, Cuba, appear to be mostly Taliban and al Qaeda rank and file, who are at best foot soldiers and the occasional seasoned operative. There are a handful of high-profile al Qaeda members -- such as Abu Zubaydah, Khalid Sheikh
Muhammad and Ramzi bin al Shibh -- who have been nabbed and are in detention at Bagram Air Base, Diego Garcia or other undisclosed locations.

Jihadist communiques from the Arabian Peninsula and statements from the Saudi and Yemeni governments show that many on their wanted lists are veterans of the Afghan camps. These men safely arrived at their destinations and might have started their own groups. They also appear to have improvised tactics by avoiding formal groups and staying away from training in the traditional manner.

Despite the loss of the operational hub, the phenomenon of jihadism is flourishing. In the interest of continued proliferation, highly trained veterans are trying to disseminate their tactical knowledge and experience through unorthodox means. The al Bataar newsletter, released weekly from the Arabian Peninsula, is one such outlet.

The authors of this publication have tried to simplify training for the uninitiated so that they gradually develop the knowledge, skills and abilities they would have acquired in Afghanistan. Al
Bataar offers crash courses on the particulars of planning a successful operation, training and methods of maintaining secrecy.

Stratfor sources say that some of the attackers had been employed inside the company for as many as seven years. They say one of the assailants during the shootout walked by a Philippine employee and said, "You are not what we are looking for," indicating they were targeting Westerners. Another source says two militants managed to escape from the scene.

Even a cursory examination of the Yanbu attack demonstrates that it does not take a lot of training, ability or experience to pull off such an operation. From the language used by al-Muqrin in his statement praising the attackers, Yanbu was the work of volunteers unaffiliated with any group. Three of them were employed at ABB Lummus -- further reinforcing the notion that the ideology of jihadism is being taken up by average Saudis, not
just social misfits.

The movement away from formal organizations by making training lessons available in the public domain has allowed the jihadist movement to sustain itself and tap into the grassroots of society. This bodes ill for the security of foreign companies in the kingdom -- and the future of the Saudi monarchy.


(c) 2004 Strategic Forecasting, Inc. All rights reserved.

http://www.stratfor.com
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 May, 2004 04:31 pm
ONE MORE TIME WITH EMPHASIS -- This is WWIII! If it is not stopped quickly, many more middle easterners as well as easterners and westerners will be masacred by the TMM. It is the TMM who have been, are, and will be to blame; no one else.

Quote:
Stratfor indicated last week that many independent jihadist groups had surfaced since the Sept. 11 attacks.
...
It appears that those at the helm of the Islamist militant movement had contingency plans prepared in the event they lost Afghanistan. Examining the behavior of the non-Afghan fighters during the U.S. military campaign in fall 2001, there did not appear to be much of an actual al Qaeda presence. Those who stood their ground and fought the Americans were either Taliban or non-Afghans foot soldiers. The veterans of al Qaeda training camps relocated into other states before and during the war.
...
The movement away from formal organizations by making training lessons available in the public domain has allowed the jihadist movement to sustain itself and tap into the grassroots of society.
0 Replies
 
mporter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 May, 2004 07:57 pm
ican711- You are one of the few who appears to understand that this is indeed World War III. Professor Bernard Lewis, one of the leading scholars on Islam in the United States made it clear as far back as 1990 in a seminal essay entitled-"The Roots of Muslim Rage".

You are correct, ican711, and I will quote some of Professor Lewis's commentary which appears to corroborate your concerns.

quote Professor Lewis

from


www.theatlantic.com/issues/90sep/rage.htm

The Roots of Muslim Rage

selected quotes

"In the classical view, to which many Muslims are beginning to return, the world and all mankind are divided into two: The House of Islam, where the Muslim law and faith prevail, and the rest, known as the House of Unbelief or the House of War, WHICH IT IS THE DUTY OF MUSLIMS ULTIMATELY TO BRING TO ISLAM..." "The Muslim has suffered successive stages of defeat...the last stage was the challenge to his mastery in his own house, from emancipated women and rebellious children...Ultimately the struggle of the fundamentalist is against two enemies, secularism and modernism. THIS IS NO LESS THAN A CLASH OF CIVILIZATIONS.

Ican711- I capitalized the sections which seem to corroborate your point exactly. This is World War III but the left doesn't recognize this and thinks that it will all blow away after November's elections.

The left does not realize that this war will last for many many years--that is, until Terror in the name of Religion, as outlined by Lewis, is extirpated.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 May, 2004 08:07 pm
Muslim rage: 1) we occupy their country 2) we strip their citizens of human rights, 3) we continue to kill innocent women and children, 4) we terrorize the Iraqi prisoners most of whom are innocent, and 5) there is no independent Iraqi government. Let's see how we would react to a similar situation. What the heck, they're trying to bring "democracy" to our country.
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 May, 2004 08:42 pm
Slightly off the current tangent but certainly on topic, the Halliburton Corporation had its shareholders meeting in Houston yesterday. The company expected attendance of about 150, but only fifty were present.

Over three hundred people protesting Halliburton greeted them:

http://images.ofoto.com/photos617/1/52/41/30/86/8/886304152105_0_ALB.jpg http://images.ofoto.com/photos617/1/52/41/1/0/7/700014152105_0_ALB.jpg
http://images.ofoto.com/photos617/1/52/41/42/6/3/306424152105_0_ALB.jpg
http://images.ofoto.com/photos617/1/52/41/44/19/7/719444152105_0_ALB.jpg
http://images.ofoto.com/photos617/1/52/41/47/75/2/275474152105_0_ALB.jpg

The Houston Chroniclereported:

Quote:


Now remember, this is Houston. Bush's town.

He is so toast.
0 Replies
 
JoanneDorel
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 May, 2004 08:47 pm
Interesting PD that the talk up here in North East Dallas too. There was a demonstration at the Halliburton in Addison a couple of weeks ago. It was also well attended.

As I have said before the talk about Bush and the war is negative every where I go in Dallas and you cannot get more conservative than Dallas.

The price of gas is really killing all the SUV and truck folks. The war is comning home in Texas now.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 May, 2004 08:55 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
Muslim rage: 1) we occupy their country

We occupy their country because their country was and is occupied by TMM who have repeatedly threatened to murder and/or maim us.

cicerone imposter wrote:
2) we strip their citizens of human rights

Their citizens were stripped of human rights long before we occupied their country. Right or wrong we are working to help them build a republic which can secure their liberty and their human rights, and reduce the chance of another Saddam evolving, while we simultaneously try to protect ourselves from their TMM.

cicerone imposter wrote:
3) we continue to kill innocent women and children

These innocent people would not continue being killed by the TMM killing them intentionally and our killing them unintentionally while defending ourselves against the TMM and trying to exterminate the TMM--IF No TMM; THEN No need to defend ourselves; THEN No chance of killing innocents.

cicerone imposter wrote:
4) we terrorize the Iraqi prisoners most of whom are innocent

We terrorize Iraqi prisoners because we are fallible, but we do not justify such actions and instead punish the perpetrators.

cicerone imposter wrote:
5) there is no independent Iraqi government.

There is no independent Iraqi government because the previous government knowingly and willingly aided and abetted TMM and as a consequence was removed by our government. If that government had not willingly and knowingly aided and abetted TMM, it would still exist. Our government does not willingly and knowingly aid and abet TMM, and our government constitutes a republic which works to secure our people's liberty and our people's rights, while preventing the evolution of a tyrrant like Saddam.
0 Replies
 
mporter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 May, 2004 08:55 pm
Cicerone Imposter-I will do my best to communicate to Professor Lewis that his thesis has been shattered by your cogent analysis.

Where did you say you taught Islamic History?
Professor Lewis may want to contact you to get the evidence you used for your blurb.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 May, 2004 09:06 pm
CI
You da man.
0 Replies
 
mporter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 May, 2004 09:10 pm
Cicereone Imposter- Would you be so good as to supply some documentation and/or evidence to prove that your statements are correct? They verywell may be but it is my opinion that they are such wide ranging generalizations as to make them useless in any real discussion.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 May, 2004 09:15 pm
mporter wrote:
ican711- You are one of the few who appears to understand that this is indeed World War III. Professor Bernard Lewis, one of the leading scholars on Islam in the United States made it clear as far back as 1990 in a seminal essay entitled-"The Roots of Muslim Rage". ...


Thank you for your comment and your copy of Professor Lewis's commentary. Thus far, I've read only one of Bernard Lewis's Books: "What Went Wrong?"

Yes, it's WWIII. Our current year 2004 is approximately equivalent to 1934. It's approximately equivalent to 3 years after the Japanese invaded China in 1931, and Hitler in 1931 rapidly began evolving into dictator of Germany. Thus in 1931 began the 14 years of horror called WWII. And the left thinks this whole thing is about who gets elected president of the US in November. Gad what self-deceit! Shocked If they keep it up we'll surely go at least 14 years with this one and they as well as the right may not survive the experience.
0 Replies
 
mporter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 May, 2004 09:40 pm
I hope to be able to comment a year from now, Ican. I think you will see that your comments are prescient. Whether we will be in greater trouble as a nation depends on whether we as a people lose the will to win and the knowledge that, even with all of our failings, we are the light of the world.

As Winston Churchill was reputed to have said:

Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all of the others.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 May, 2004 10:02 pm
mporter's quote, "Cicerone Imposter-I will do my best to communicate to Professor Lewis that his thesis has been shattered by your cogent analysis.

Where did you say you taught Islamic History?
Professor Lewis may want to contact you to get the evidence you used for your blurb."

I don't respond to smart-asses, so consider this my last reponse to you.
0 Replies
 
JamesMorrison
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 May, 2004 10:14 pm
ican and mporter,

I too, am frustrated (forgive my subjective view), but this is directed towards a perceived opportunity lost by this administration. I too sense a once in a millennium opportunity to bring a better life to all in the ME quickly slipping away. The Bush administration shows signs of the dreaded procedure of cutting Iraq lose and pulling back beyond the horizon (Both Colin Powell and Bremer have said that if, after the turnover, the Iraqi people want us to leave we will...so much for "Staying the course"). This will be a disaster the likes this country has never seen. Our best ally will be severely damaged (UK) and our standing in the world will be diminished significantly. Many who hate the Bush administration will rejoice all over the world. But those in the "West" will pay a heavy price for this schadenfreude. High benefit / high risk efforts require high maintenance efforts. Nation building does not fall under the heading of "Turn Key" operations.

My question has always been: What has the administration done, post invasion of Iraq, to obtain the professed goal of changing the Middle Eastern mindset and promotion of self determination in this area?

The Bush administration started off with a pro-active mindset towards TMMs in Afghanistan and Iraq. They seemed to think that the end result of invading Iraq would be flowers in the gun barrels and sweets in the mouths of American soldiers. Then when the Iraqis demonstrated their penchant towards self determination, and all that that entailed, this administration demonstrated all the leadership of a deer caught in the headlights of a Humvee. The past actions of this administration have continued to demonstrate more concern over political appearances than that of the U.S.'s standing on the world stage. But perhaps I am being too harsh, maybe Bush and his advisors are simply a day late and a dime short. But the latter assumption raises the specter involving the wisdom of changing horses in midstream.

JM
0 Replies
 
Brand X
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 May, 2004 05:47 am
Yeah, the mission has changed from 'Let's Roll!' to 'Let's Roll Over'.
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 May, 2004 06:01 am
Weren't we also paying Chalabi a few hundred thousand bucks a month, or something?

Turns out he's a double agent (which is why his home got raided yesterday).

Quote:


Another damning photo:

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/atrios/bushchalabi.jpg

BTW, could anyone explain to me why Bush cannot find an underarm anti-perspirant that works?

edit: Chalabi had a $355,000-a-month contract with the Defense Intelligence Agency, recently terminated.
0 Replies
 
 

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