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THE US, THE UN AND IRAQ VI

 
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Apr, 2004 04:21 am
At first I thought invading Iraq was a cynical and criminal act for the benefit of America and Israel. Then I thought getting rid of Saddam and imposing a wider middle east peace settlement might justify it. Now I know what its about I feel physically sick.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Apr, 2004 06:06 am
"We have told the world we are not producing these kind of weapons, but it seems that the world is drugged, absent or in a weak position," President Saddam Hussein said.

At a press conference in Baghdad yesterday, [22nd December 2002] General Amir al-Sadi, scientific adviser to the president, issued a challenge to the US and British intelligence to offer up hard evidence that Iraq has any biological, chemical or nuclear weapons.

"We do not even have any objections if the CIA sent somebody with the inspectors to show them the suspected sites," Gen Sadi said.
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Apr, 2004 06:44 am
Quote:
The irony of oil companies not investing in Iraq is that they are flush with money because of high crude prices and many people believed the US invaded the country only to secure future oil supplies.
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Apr, 2004 08:03 am
Steve (as 41oo) wrote:
"We have told the world we are not producing these kind of weapons, but it seems that the world is drugged, absent or in a weak position," President Saddam Hussein said.

At a press conference in Baghdad yesterday, [22nd December 2002] General Amir al-Sadi, scientific adviser to the president, issued a challenge to the US and British intelligence to offer up hard evidence that Iraq has any biological, chemical or nuclear weapons.

"We do not even have any objections if the CIA sent somebody with the inspectors to show them the suspected sites," Gen Sadi said.


Yet even 2 weeks before the invasion, Saddam's regime resisted giving inspectors full access to all the suspected sites in Iraq.
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Apr, 2004 09:01 am
ican711nm wrote:
Steve (as 41oo) wrote:
Quote:
Resistance fighters in the Iraqi city of Falluja have placed a $15 million bounty on the heads of key US occupation figures, including Secretary of Defence, Donald Rumsfeld.



From what source did they get the money?


From Sadaam, surely.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Apr, 2004 09:38 am
This joke is related to this subject.
*****************************
A young woman in New York was so depressed that she decided to end her life by throwing herself into the ocean. She went down to the docks and was about to leap into the frigid water when a handsome young sailor saw her tottering on the edge of the pier, crying. He took pity on her and said, "Look, you have so much to live for. I'm off to Europe in the morning, and if you like, I can stow you away on my ship. I'll take good care o f you and bring you food every day."
Moving closer, he slipped his arm around her shoulder and added, "I'll keep you happy, and you'll keep me happy." The girl nodded yes. After all, what did she have to lose? Perhaps a fresh start in Europe would give her life new meaning.

That night, the sailor brought her aboard and hid her in a lifeboat. From then on, every night he brought her three sandwiches and a piece of fruit, and they made mad passionate love until dawn. Three weeks later, during aroutine inspection, she was discovered by the captain.

"What are you doing here?" the captain asked. "I have an arrangement with one of the sailors," she explained. "I get food and a trip to Europe, and he's screwing me."


"He certainly is," the captain said. "This is the Staten Island Ferry."
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Apr, 2004 11:03 am
Lola wrote:
Now ican, read what you've written here......you don't really think this illustrates any point do you? You don't....surely you don't. ...


Oh yes I do!

Lola wrote:
Did anyone working in the Clinton Admin write any position papers? Did they have any meetings, 10 days into the administration, discussing something like a need to avoid a pre-emptive strike on Iraq? The answer, as you know, is nope.......or at least if they did, no one came forward to disclose it.......


Oh yes they did!

The previous administration had meetings and wrote position papers and orally articulated positions regarding to refrain/restrain or not to refrain/restrain from aggressive action against Iraq, and/or Afganistan, and/or Syria, and/or Iran and/or et al! Oh, you're correct that they didn't do these things 10 days into their administration in 1993. They waited from January 20, 1993 when Clinton was inaugurated until the 1st bombing of the World Trade Center February 26, 1993. That's understandable to me.

Richard Clarke and Jamie Gorelick are but two sources of information about and indications of all that discussion and decision making. But the big evidence of early thought on these problems is, of course, the Vice President Gore Task Force. In August 1993, the Gore Task Force (I have previously nicknamed it the Gore Commission) recommended changes like those eventually adopted by the subsequent administration in the form of the Homeland Security Bill. The Encyclopedia Britannica Book of the Year 1994 (covering 1993) alleges on page 118, under "Law Enforcement": the Gore task force "made radical proposals to consolidate law enforcement functions." The Gore Commission recommendations were rejected by the previous administration.

If the present administration knew the moment they took office all that occurred, was thought, contemplated, was done and not done in the previous administration, then they were remiss if they waited even 10 days to begin discussing what to do? Of course, They were delayed somewat by the Florida vote count dispute until the Supreme Court Decision December 12, 2000 that ended the dispute. So they were probably slower than most administrations in getting organized prior to inauguration. But they delayed far too long negotiating for UN support before they multilaterally (but without a UN vote) enforced the last UN resolution that directed Saddam to reveal what he had done with his WMD, or else.

P.S. My memory is not what it used to be (if it ever was what it used to be Laughing ). But my 35 year set of Britannica Year Books is definitely what it used to be.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Apr, 2004 11:20 am
cicerone imposter wrote:
This joke is related to this subject. ... "He certainly is," the captain said. "This is the Staten Island Ferry."


Laughing Laughing Laughing

I bet we disagree on who or what in our discussion here is analogous to the sailor, the young woman, the captain, and the Staten Island Ferry.

Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

The young woman = the Democratic Party (on the verge of suicide)

The sailor = John Kerry

The captain = Zel Miller

The Staten Island Ferry = USA (we're all in the same boat)

Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Apr, 2004 12:12 pm
Quote:
Bush To Iraqi Militants: 'Please Stop Bringing It On'


The Onion
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McTag
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Apr, 2004 01:12 pm
So, (as heard on the wireless this evening) the occupying forces, whose first act in Baghdad (after they had secured the Oil Ministry building) was to disband the Iraqi Army and send them all home with their weapons but without any pay or prospect of any support for their families,

NOW, are trying to cobble together a Company from same Iraqi Army so as to secure the centre of Fallujah, so that the marines can withdraw.

You couldn't make it up. Another surprising development in this tale of how not to conduct an invasion and occupation.

Is this being reported in America?
0 Replies
 
Ethel2
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Apr, 2004 01:39 pm
LOL McT.........it is not a parity, no matter how convincingly it sounds like it is......

and yes, I did hear this report this morning on CNN
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ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Apr, 2004 01:49 pm
McTag wrote:
... NOW, are trying to cobble together a Company from same Iraqi Army so as to secure the centre of Fallujah, so that the marines can withdraw.

You couldn't make it up. Another surprising development in this tale of how not to conduct an invasion and occupation.

Is this being reported in America?


Yes, it's being reported in the US. Disbanding former Saddam troops with their weapons and no jobs is incredibly stupid. Giving former Saddam troops this fox in the hen coop job is just plain incredible.

Perhaps it's just a crazy way to keep track of Baathist and terrorist relations. Rolling Eyes
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ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Apr, 2004 05:21 pm
Excerpts from a long 1998 article:
Quote:
Finish the job? Not in our lifetime


The U.S. can't "go all the way" in Iraq because, beyond Saddam Hussein, there's nowhere to go. Besides, his neighbors need to keep him around.


BY JONATHAN BRODER | WASHINGTON -- The deal that United Nations Secretary General Kofi Annan struck with Saddam Hussein over the weekend may have diffused the Iraqi crisis, at least temporarily. but diplomats acknowledge it is probably only a matter of time before the world community is nose-to-nose again with the Iraqi strongman over yet another of his violations of international law.

What is not so readily acknowledged is that absent a cohesive American strategy, Middle Eastern leaders wouldn't have it any other way.

The dirty little secret of the Iraqi crisis, whether it simmers at the United Nations or threatens to boil over into armed conflict, is that the Middle East, the region that would seemingly have the most to gain from Saddam's quick dispatch, needs the petty tyrant.

Why? As long as Saddam remains in power, other leaders in the Middle East look good by comparison. For Syria's President Hafez-al Assad, for example, the focus on Saddam means less attention paid to his own repressive policies. Neighboring Iran, these days regarded as the lesser of two evils, can rebuild its economy and its military undisturbed, secure in the knowledge that either the U.N. or the U.S. will periodically slap down the Islamic republic's most fervent enemy so long as Saddam is around.

...

Finally, before any concerted action against Saddam can be contemplated, the U.S. has to get firmly behind a political alternative to Saddam. Djerijian says the Clinton administration essentially abandoned the Iraqi opposition when it failed to resolve a power struggle between two Kurdish leaders in U.S.-protected northern Iraq in 1996, prompting one to cut a deal with Saddam and the other to turn to Iran. Sensing his chance, Saddam reoccupied northern Iraq that summer, wiping out the Iraqi opposition. "That shows we have not been serious about supporting the Iraqi opposition, and we have to be," Djerijian says.

But reestablishing a political alternative to Saddam will take a long time, possibly years. In the meantime, the question that a veteran from Maine posed to Defense Secretary William Cohen during the administration's recent town meeting in Ohio bears remembering. If the U.S. doesn't go in and finish the job this time, was it going to "come back and ask my grandson and some of these other grandsons to put their lives on the line" again? The simple answer is yes. Until the United States can come up with a better plan, containment offers the least disruptive of all possible worlds.
(boldface added)
SALON | Feb. 23, 1998

Jonathan Broder is Salon's Washington correspondent
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Apr, 2004 05:24 pm
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Apr, 2004 03:48 am
A year ago Bush stood on the deck of the Abraham Lincoln beneath a banner he had brought with him which proclaimed MISSION ACCOMPLISHED.

Today the Iraqi resisitance celebrates its momentous victory at Fallujah. The invader is defeated and forced into humiliating withdrawal. But the Iraqis have other reasons to rejoice on this anniversary of "the end of major hostilities". They are free of Saddam, and united in their oppostion to the occupation of their country. The invaders through their own laziness and depravity have lost or rather thrown away any claim to legal or moral authority. The invasion has failed in its primary objective. Security for American personnel in Iraq cannot be guaranteed. And for this reason the oil companies are staying away. How ironic that the invasion, launched primarily for the exploitation of Iraq's oil wealth, has caused companies such as BP to re-think its investment strategy away from Iraq due the continuing guerilla war provoked by the American invasion.
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the prince
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Apr, 2004 04:50 am
I s anyone else as sickened as me by the pictures which came out of the Iraqi prison ?
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Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Apr, 2004 05:17 am
Gautam wrote:
I s anyone else as sickened as me by the pictures which came out of the Iraqi prison ?


Straight out of Quday and Usay's playbook ........ sad.
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the prince
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Apr, 2004 05:19 am
And we are supposed to be the "civilized" world Shocked
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Apr, 2004 06:56 am
Short piece from Slate explaining why Najaf has a unique status as a holy city...
http://slate.msn.com/id/2099573/
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Apr, 2004 08:17 am
BTW, Bush = girl in joke: talk about committing political suicide - but neocons don't understand any of this, and they think they hold the "high ground." What a joke. They wanted something for nothing, and look what we all ended up getting, because they couldn't see in the front of their own noses.
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