1
   

OBAMACARE is UNCONSTITUTIONAL

 
 
plainoldme
 
  0  
Reply Sun 13 Feb, 2011 03:59 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
Indeed, right wing parenting includes contempt for authority, with gusto!!! YES!!!!!


So, you approve of those kids who disrupt the class and waste the teacher's time? Would boys forcing themselves sexually on girls meet with your approval? Would you approve of a student assaulting a teacher verbally or symbolically, as the child in the picture assaults the viewer? Could the child physically assault the teacher? And, if children are to show contempt for authority, can they throw their dinner at their mother if she doesn't serve dessert?

If the child should question authority, can the child refuse to study because the text book is too difficult? Do you promote ignorance, the ultimate rebellion against authority?
0 Replies
 
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Feb, 2011 04:21 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
I pay for the opinions I hold with my taxes... I defend my opinions with reason in preference to blind self interest, and I advertize my opinions that I defend and pay for as well as I am able, and the fact that you cannot answer them is not at all profound, but clearly understandable given the limits of your knowledge... I will not even try to stop you from expressing your opinion; but give it about the same weight as helium... I would ask you this: If this is our land, our government, and our commonwealth; won by many a common sacrifice, and many individual lives, then why should we not all have access to the commonwealth, and pretection from insurance providers and drug companies that either deny our due, or use us a guinne pigs???
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  2  
Reply Mon 14 Feb, 2011 06:42 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

It always amaze me how large percent of the total population you can get to vote again their best interests.


That's because you expect people to remain content within their present social standing, and despite your (supposedly) inherent left wing altruism, you also expect them to promote their self-interests above anything else.

Fortunately for this country, most of its people appreciate upward mobility and are not content with living on the dole. God help us when they consider voting for permanent underclass status (left wing policy) is in their best interests.
Cycloptichorn
 
  0  
Reply Mon 14 Feb, 2011 06:43 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Laughing

It's always amazing to me to see how many people will argue against the wisdom of requiring people to carry insurance that they themselves wouldn't dream of going without.

Cycloptichorn
plainoldme
 
  0  
Reply Mon 14 Feb, 2011 08:56 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
That's what makes me scratch my head. HEre, Obama compromised with the Republicans and gave a nod to the insurance business which is such a large part of the American economy and the culture of business and the okies and finns hate it.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Feb, 2011 01:01 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
Fortunately for this country, most of its people appreciate upward mobility and are not content with living on the dole. God help us when they consider voting for permanent underclass status (left wing policy) is in their best interests.


So the middle class that is being destroy by the amazing concentration of the total wealth of the society in a smaller and ever smaller group is a good thing?

That we should no longer have a middle class but just the poor without such things as basic medical care and the super rich?

None of the suffering matter if the dream of becoming part of this ever smaller group of the wealthy can be maintain is that your position?

You do know that this will in the end result in the destruction of the society in the same manner as the Roman Republic?
BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Tue 15 Feb, 2011 01:46 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Second comment dole my ass this is the only advance country in the world where a man who had work all his life could find himself in force early retirement because his job had gone to China and without medical insurance at the very moment he had the most need for it.

At 58 with large savings and no debt and a pay for home I still would had been in a world of hurt trying to paid for private insurance coverage or having my life life expectancy greatly reduce for it lack for seven years until 65.

The only thing that save my rear end was my wife had a great state government retirement package with an insurance package where it cost me only 24 dollars a month to be cover in a better manner then under my former employer plan.

All this lack of insurance so our super wealthy can have larger private jets and larger yachts then the super wealthy in the EU or Japan or Canada.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 15 Feb, 2011 06:49 am
Princess Pelosi once said that ObamaCare would create 4 million jobs -- "400,000 of them almost immediately."

Death Panels And Job Losses
BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Tue 15 Feb, 2011 06:56 am
@H2O MAN,
No need for a death panel now as if you are without health insurance your access to needed long term medical care is small to non-existence.

Your death panel is the nice woman that ask you for your insurance card.


Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Feb, 2011 10:26 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

No need for a death panel now as if you are without health insurance your access to needed long term medical care is small to non-existence.

Your death panel is the nice woman that ask you for your insurance card.


What these mouth-breathing idiots don't understand is that the 'reduction in the labor force' is calculated almost 100% from people who decide not to work because they no longer have to maintain their job in order to have health insurance.

If anyone had bothered to actually read the CBO report... but it's much easier to just make a fool out of themselves and check no facts at all.

Cycloptichorn
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 15 Feb, 2011 11:08 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:


What these mouth-breathing idiots don't understand


You've just described liberal progressive left wing nut democrats spot-on.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Feb, 2011 11:29 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Quote:
What these mouth-breathing idiots don't understand is that the 'reduction in the labor force' is calculated almost 100% from people who decide not to work because they no longer have to maintain their job in order to have health insurance.


Oh yes that is likely given that most people without health insurance are working people.

Health insurance is a secondary issue when it come to working or not working and given the economic no one was in a hurry to sign me up with an engineering degree and 33 years in my field at age 58.

I could have gotten temporary assignments in my field without health insurance however or others benefits.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Feb, 2011 06:08 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:

Laughing

It's always amazing to me to see how many people will argue against the wisdom of requiring people to carry insurance that they themselves wouldn't dream of going without.

Cycloptichorn


This is a great example of how facile the arguments of Cyclo the Great Debater actually are.

The proponents of the Obamacare mandate are not arguing that it isn't sensible to have health insurance. They are arguing that it is unconstitutional for the government to require it.

I'll be 57 in a couple of weeks and it would be insane for me to deliberately reject health insurance, but if I was 25, and in good health, I might have taken the risk to go without. Whether or not that might be a foolish decision, I should have the right to make it.

I'm afraid I don't share your the warm and fuzzy feeling you experience whenever you think about The Government looking out for all of us poor slobs who don't see it the way you do.

This is the crux of the debate: You and your confreres think Americans can't be trusted to make sensible decisions about their lives, and so the State needs to step in and make them for them.

Me and mine recognize that individual liberty will allow some people to make decisions which ultimately prove to be foolish, but that's how we learn, and take control of our lives.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Feb, 2011 06:11 pm
@plainoldme,
plainoldme wrote:

That's what makes me scratch my head. HEre, Obama compromised with the Republicans and gave a nod to the insurance business which is such a large part of the American economy and the culture of business and the okies and finns hate it.


Be careful, because when faced with truth and logic, you might just scratch a hole in your skull. You won't notice it of course because it has been numb for many years.
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Tue 15 Feb, 2011 06:24 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
This is the crux of the debate: You and your confreres think Americans can't be trusted to make sensible decisions about their lives, and so the State needs to step in and make them for them.

Me and mine recognize that individual liberty will allow some people to make decisions which ultimately prove to be foolish, but that's how we learn, and take control of our lives.


In order to do away with the preexisting limitation on health insurance everyone need to be cover otherwise you end up with people just waiting to get sick before buying insurance.

This is the same reason that you can not buy hurricane insurance once a storm watch is in placed.

I agree however the private insurance model is not a good way to deal with the matter and just extending Medicare to the whole society is a far better means and it would be constitution as Medicare is constitution.

Oh as the society end up picking up the cost of anyone who need medical care in any case anyone who is not insurance and can not show an ability to pay for such care out of pocket is of concern to the public at large.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Feb, 2011 06:26 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Laughing

It's always amazing to me to see how many people will argue against the wisdom of requiring people to carry insurance that they themselves wouldn't dream of going without.

Cycloptichorn


This is a great example of how facile the arguments of Cyclo the Great Debater actually are.

The proponents of the Obamacare mandate are not arguing that it isn't sensible to have health insurance. They are arguing that it is unconstitutional for the government to require it.


Well, that's one of their arguments. But it's not one that holds much water.

Then again if you had any understanding of the Commerce Clause, had done any scholarship on the issue or even really any research AT ALL you would know that the case against HCreform is very, very weak.

Quote:
I'll be 57 in a couple of weeks and it would be insane for me to deliberately reject health insurance, but if I was 25, and in good health, I might have taken the risk to go without. Whether or not that might be a foolish decision, I should have the right to make it.


I'm sorry but this just isn't compatible with the way our society operates.

You could 'choose' to engage in all sorts of dangerous or reckless behaviors that the government prohibits you from. Can't drive without insurance. Can't drive without wearing a seatbelt - even though it's just yourself that you would be hurting! Can't run a business without insurance.

I could go on but there's no real point.

Quote:
I'm afraid I don't share your the warm and fuzzy feeling you experience whenever you think about The Government looking out for all of us poor slobs who don't see it the way you do.

This is the crux of the debate: You and your confreres think Americans can't be trusted to make sensible decisions about their lives, and so the State needs to step in and make them for them.


Everything is so black-and-white in your world, Finn. As if there are shining Democracy Freedom Capitalist Warriors on one hill, and their enemies, the Socialist Evil Communist Know-it-Alls on the other hill. It's not a realistic look at the world.

I think that history has proven - proven - that whether people can or can't make the responsible choice, they often don't. And the ramifications are always bigger than just themselves.

Quote:
Me and mine recognize that individual liberty will allow some people to make decisions which ultimately prove to be foolish, but that's how we learn, and take control of our lives.


Laughing You and Yours are interested in money, and that's it. Truly. You don't give a **** about anything other than money. All this crap about individual freedom is a smokescreen for greed because you don't quite have the balls to admit your true feelings out loud.

If it wasn't for the fact that you suspect HCReform is going to cost you money, either in terms of taxes or in higher health care costs, you wouldn't care. At all.

One way or the other, the courts will decide this, and I'm very confident that they will continue to uphold the Commerce Clause - just as they have for the last 30-40 years.

Cycloptichorn
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Tue 15 Feb, 2011 06:38 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Quote:
If it wasn't for the fact that you suspect HCReform is going to cost you money, either in terms of taxes or in higher health care costs, you wouldn't care. At all.


Of course I and my family are cover so I do not care if other people or their children are dying on the street.

The problem with that thinking is it cause an unstable society where a large percent of the population is not stakeholders and will cheerfully do harm to the society that had proven it does not care for them.

To be a soldier in the Roman Republic legions it was once a requirement that you was a land owner but that needed to be done away with as a smaller and smaller percent of the population was ever larger land owners.

The end result is that the soldiers did not see why they should not loot Rome like it was any other city as they was not stakeholders in the society.
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  0  
Reply Tue 15 Feb, 2011 09:10 pm
@BillRM,
I've been wondering why blue jeans have been popular for such an inordinately long time. I realized after reading your post that it because the economy has been stagnant for nearly 40 years and that the buying power of 80% of the American work force has remained the same.
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  0  
Reply Tue 15 Feb, 2011 09:12 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Go ahead, issue gratuitous insults. Who cares?
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Feb, 2011 09:18 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
You and your confreres think Americans can't be trusted to make sensible decisions about their lives, and so the State needs to step in and make them for them.


okie is an American.

So is ican.

Then there is omsigdavid.

And you are an American.

H20Man and georgeob bring up the rear.

A short list of reasons why Americans can not be trusted.
 

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