Both are correct?

I feel Ceili and Wy have offered one of the best sentences:
"I found the area where I live had the power cut."

Just use it!

However, a thank-you to all you. Because, I was inspired by your opinion, more or less.

More or less inspired is good enough for me.

Happy Christmas OristarA, way over there.

Oristar,

"I found the area where I live had the power cut" is incorrect.

The time frame is placed in the past by the word 'found' and events prior to that time frame need to be described using the past perfect tense.

The sentence would be correct to read:

"I found the area where I live had had the power cut."

But beyond making its grammar correct I would alter it to read more clearly like this:

"I found out that the area where I live had had the power cut."

That would avoid confusion with find (discover) and find (encounter).

But if I had my way I'd describe it like this:

"I found out that the area where I live had suffered a blackout."

This avoids another minor confusion that the verb "had" can cause.

But they are all minor quibbles, the sentence I quoted is fine except for the fact that it's not in past perfect tense.

Remember, when describing the past of the past you need to use past perfect.

e.g.

A: I saw Sally yesterday at MacDonalds. (past)

B: Did you have lunch with her?

A: No, I had already eaten. (event prior to the past setting)

----

A: Have you eaten?

B: Yes, I had a cracker.

A: That's all? Aren't you hungry.

B: No, before I had the cracker I had eaten 3 turkeys. (event prior to the past setting)

Oh, BTW there is a deeper debate about "all right" vs. "alright".

It is related to"already" and "all ready".

The are two main reasons some dictionaries are starting to accept "alright".

One is that it's a very common error. The second reason is that there is legitimate distinction between the two.

"All right" is an absolute.

"Alright" can mean "ok".

The big reason the people who defend "alright" are given the time of day is the following type of scenario:

A: How did I do on the test?

B: Alright

or

B: All right

One can mean "You performed to an acceptable degree on the test."

The other can mean "You performed flawlessly on the test."

This is similar to the distinction below:

"We are all ready already."

Well done, Craven de Kere!

I still think that if you were to submit a list of all the revision suggestions made in this thead to an English teacher -- or even better, to an English professor -- the expert would select the one I submitted (sans the word "off") as the preferred sentence.

My guess is Setanta's would come in last and Craven's next to last.

I say: Give it a try!

Re
"I found the electric company had cut off the power in the area where I live."

Am I alone in thinking the usual, acceptable way of saying this is 'I found the area [where] I live gets power cuts' (as a usual occurrence) or 'We had a power cut in the area/where I live.' ?

And you can include all of Clary's proposals also.



Happy holiday, Clary. Peace!

Same to everyone here!

No. But ESL teaching is to work with what's given as much as to simply give what a native would say.

The intuition of the native is explained through the illustration of the awkwardness.

Giving OristarA a native-sounding phrase would be to give him a fish. Working with the sentences he came up with, even though they might be awkward, is to help teach him to fish.

Despite the position of some, it's not a competition to come up with the "best" sentence. I think we can best help OristarA by teaching the underlying reasons, as we are not going to be around to pick all his sentences for him.

OristarA's original question was about whether the sentences were correct. He went on to learn that they were not and he settled on a substitute that was unfortunately also incorrect.

IMHO, we should have as our focus helping him improve his English. And my personal methodology involves using what the ESL learner gives to work with, even if it's easier to just rewrite it for them.

Absolutely right. I was really quite surprised at what some of the contributors considered the 'most correct'. No, you and I are on the same side in this, fishing tackle rather than fish, as an ELT writer.

Yep, people will always differ on things so subjective as "best sentence". I like to just point out the pitfalls and grammar errors and help the student learn to decide for himself.

The examples help, but in my experience the next thing the student wants to know is "What was wrong with my sentence? "

Craven's grammar is spot on,

Craven's grammar is indeed spot on, but poor OristarA is not in the business of counting the number of angels on the head of a pin. Not yet at any rate, or so it seems to me.

I would baulk at one point: I do not think that "alright" has yet got into any respectable dictionary or grammar, and I hope it never shall.

All right, McTag, you've made me sit on pins.
But I didn't get "in the business of counting the number of angels on the head of a pin", I'd like to know what it meant.

PS. Spot on = spot-on; apropos?

Oristar,

Theology in the past used to get kinda silly. And "counting angels on the head of a pin" is often used to describe "nit picking", or basically giving too much attention to something unimportant. It's not exactly what the theology of the past constituted but there were indeed similar arguments.

For more on this see: http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a4_132.html

In other words McTag is saying that the grammar point I had made to you was not important for your level. Sometimes grammar rules are complex and obscure enough that this is the case.

But I disagree with McTag. I assume he is talking about the grammar of the past perfect tense. That is something I consider fundamental and very important.

Craven you are correct of course, and I have to admit that I became fixated on the word got, when the whole sentence needed an overhaul. Thanks.

Yes, Craven is right about the angels. There was apparently, in the Middle Ages, an argument among theologians about how many angels could be accommodated on the head of a pin.
It is nowadays a metaphor for an argument about unimportant minutiae.
This is beginning to sound pompous, oh dear.

I just thought Craven was giving you more detail than was appropriate at this stage. Not many native speakers can make these distinctions, never mind foreign learners.
Now it's beginning to sound patronising, oh dear.

Anyway, Merry Christmas to you all.

McTag, I found "alright" in Webster's. I'm horrified, but I'll have to learn to live with it. It's not all right with me.

Just so we never find "alot", as in, "I wish you all alot of Christmas happiness!"

Webster's? That's a "respectable" dictionary? I thought it was American?

Mwoohahahahahaha

okbye