sons want to be friends with sister that hates me

You know, this is their family, so yeah, I think it's unreasonable. Not in a harsh way, but really, they're all adults and the kids and your sis and BIL weren't involved in the fight, so... why not let them have their own relationships? I don't think you should expect them to be loyal to you because you had a disagreement with them... I know it might hurt, but why involve them? Just think about that for a minute.

Best thing you can do is just bury the hatchet with sis and BIL and you can all be family again. People say things in the heat of the moment. Maybe you could go over what happened and look at it from their perspective, see if they have a point. It's not so important to be right.

My mother used to do this kind of **** all the time.

By the time I was your sons ages, I had as little to do with her as possible.

I suppose that was a win win situation, since she then had someone else she could complain about to whoever would listen, and I didn't have to be around to hear it.

For the next 20 or 25 years, every time I absolutely had to talk to her or see her, I heard the exact same complaints every single time. All that did was validate my decision to not have her in my life.

You know sad mom, you son's are under no obligation to even give you the time of day, let alone hate who you hate, especially for some nit picking reason like a damn gift.

maybe that's something for you to think about too.

Then again, just like my mother, if they cut you out of their lives, you'll now have ready made drama to force down everyone elses throat.

Disloyal? You just want them to be as miserable as you.

I have told my sister I am sorry for the things I said that hurt her. I do not expect my kids to hate who I hate, but I have a tough time when people keep secrets. Keeping secrets and talking behind peoples backs is the real problem between my sister and I.

Why won't your sons tell you if they spend time with your sister and brother-in-law?

Have you told your sons that they can tell you - and that you won't be upset by it?

Joe(Great question!!)Nation

no I did not tell them, but my younger son has told me in the past and I was not upset
when he did. It is only the past couple of months after I tried to appologize that it has been kept secret. They were invited for a holiday dinner and they kept that from me.
,

You're sons are probably trying to keep the relationship with your sister a secret so they can protect your feelings and because they somehow knew you would act in such melodramatic fashion.

Maybe they figure they can be a bridge between you and your sister's broken relationship. Consider they trek as an unsolicited diplomatic mission that may bring in a peace treaty between you and your sister.

I have this same thing going on in my family. There are five kids in my family, one lives in Oz, the rest here. One brother is married to a... trying to be charitable here... well, she's irksome.
I wasn't there for the blowout over how and/or who would get presents, or maybe it was over the price, I dunno, but it ended in two brothers trading blows and 6 or so years later, the only people it really hurts is the rest of us. We have to plan two christmas, two easter, two thanksgiving, several birthday parties and other events, all so the selfish parties don't have to be in the same room with each other.
So, as one of the people who've had to suck it up, put up with the bullshit this rift has caused, I say grow up!
Your kids deserve to know their family. You, grandparents, the drunk uncle, the emo niece, the crazy great aunt, who. ever.
Your kids don't deserve the gossip, the pettiness, the bickering, the general histrionics. You have a feud happening, they have nothing to do with it.
Let them live their life and if you don't freak out, they will share stuff with you. They probably think you need the buffer of the lie, not the other way around. Prove to them you don't.

Your adult children are under no obligation to be a front man for your dispute - and it's unfair of you to pull them into the fray.

As long as they pay attention to you, you should not be following their actions when they are out and about.

Please pull back - or you will force them to make a choice - and it MAY not be you they choose.

Family loyalty is a vitally important thing. I think you may interpret that as your kids treating your sister like **** because of what sounds like some small-minded bullshit that happened between your sister and her husband and you.

I UNDERSTAND you feeling like your kids are betraying you - but in fact, you are the one who's on the brink of letting them down.

My husband's mother treaed both of us horribly for 26 years. I despised her. My husband passed away and he dared me to let her attend his funeral. When he died, I knew I'd never see her again or speak to her. Her machinations really impacted his life in a seriously horrible way.

My son called me a few months after his dad died and asked how I felt about his desire to strengthen all of his family ties, including with her. Initially, it was like a stinging slap across my face, but as a mother, I immediately knew that he needed and deserved my support in reaching out to HIS family.

Why would a mother want to destin her children to the same unhappiness she suffered? You don't, sweety.

How this works:

Never ask about their visits or what is said, but don't avoid it petulantly if they bring it up. Force a smile on your face and in your voice and be happy if they had a good time.

Never make some small, accusatory comment designed to make him feel guilty about family get togethers or their growing friendship. "Well, I sat at home by myself. Glad you had a good time... /sarcasm, self pity."

Don't allow yourself to sit about and fester about what they might be saying or doing.

Model the kind of behavior you desire regarding this situation: Don't downgrade your sister to your kids and hope that they don't allow her to do that about you.

In order to save face (so your sister doesnh't think she's got one on you because your kids are visiting her): Send her a note to her. Be brief and positive:

Sister's name,

I love my children, and just because you and I are experiencing a bad moment in our history is no reason for kid 1 and kid 2 to be isolated from their family.

They've asked about spending time with you, and I support it. I hope you all have wonderful times together.

Sister

Perhaps a few nice words like this can bring you and your sister closer together. Trust me, I have some ridiculously stupid, trite bullshit going on in my fiance's family, too. Sometimes, you just have to say to the offenders - "Look, this is stupid. Let's just chalk all this up to immaturity and pride and forget it and move on." They might make you sweat it for a while, they might laugh in your face, they might say, 'yeah, you're right.' No matter what they do, you were the one who did the right thing.

Hope this works well for your kids' sake.

You could send a Get Out of Bullshit Free card in the mail...

these nephews want to have a relationship with their aunt

get over it

Yuck, I didn't see that you'd tried to apologize and they're rejecting you. That's rough.

Still, advise holds - you just have a bit more sympathy from me.

It sounds 2ice as GOOD!





David

Lash... there are apologies and there are Apologies. Since none of us can tell how convincing and/or sincere Sad Mom's apology to her sons seemed or was perceived by the sons one can't make the assumption that rejection was that unjustified.

I'm sorry to say, but your point is a little bit unreasonable. I understand the fact that you have your differences with your sibling and her spouse, but that doesn't deem it necessary that your boys should stray from anyone just because you don't approve of it. It was a conflict between you and your sister, which excludes your sons' involvement in the dispute. By expecting them to dislike who you dislike, you are involving them in a situation that doesn't even concern them. For example, if a husband and wife get divorced over disagreements, a child should still have the right to see both parents even though they have problems with each other.

It's not disloyal or a betrayal of trust. They are old enough to form their own relationships with whom they choose.
It's like back in elementary school where your best friend disliked a classmate, and you automatically disliked the same person just because your best friend did. Maybe your bestfriend had a reason to dislike them over an issue of who gets a lollypop, but that didn't involve you personally. You would be limiting your sons of new friendships where they can learn and grow as people from the individuals they interact with. Don't wish your sons to be as miserable as you.

You have a dispute with your sister, which not one of us can judge the 'rightness' of, because we were not there. You have attempted to pull your sons into this dispute, despite the fact that they were not involved, and would have to take your word for it. Every adult knows that people see things differently, react differently, and in conflict are given to one eyed views - it's human nature. So to take part in a conflict that you don't personally know the cause of is perilous, and completely unfair to be asked to participate in.

I do think it an ugly aspect where you get upset with them while thinking them disloyal for talking to your sister - behaving like that to your sons (and especially if you used those words to them) is called emotional blackmail, and not a person I know likes it. Usually people, even family, try and put space between themselves and the person emotionally blackmailing them. If kept up, your sister won't need to do anything about driving them away from you, for you will do that yourself.

You need to leave your sons out of your dispute, and find a way to sort it out. That may mean asking for open advice. Open advice does not mean 'how do I get her to see sense'. It means 'what do you see as the problem here', and 'is there anything that I'm doing that is contributing to this ongoing dispute', and 'is there anything that she is doing that is contributing...', and 'how do you think we can both work through this' - things like that. Don't ask those questions if you are going to get upset or defensive. Only ask if you want an honest opinion that you are both 'prepared to listen to without interrupting' and you will seek to clarify with things like 'what do you mean by that' or 'why do you say that' etc

so, they have to tell you every single time they have contact with someone?

There was a lot of good sense in that post, vikorr.

Thanks for the advice,I have not given ultimatums or bitched at either son. I think the slap in the face statement says it best and I posted this because deep down I know feeling this way is wrong. I know my sons are adults and can have a relationship with anyone they want.
Feeling rejected after appologies have been ignored have added to the sting so I guess the best advice is to keep my mouth shut and slap on a smile. I will continue to try to appologize but forgiveness is a two way street. The problem between us sisters was more than holidays.Things have been said on both sides that were wrong.
I hope all of you that have issues with your own family members can have things work out. families need to get along and its worth it to at least try. For those of you that think life is better without your mother,sister,father,brother your wrong, you may be fine now but one day you will wish they were around.