sons want to be friends with sister that hates me

That is simply your opinion.

I might point out that is one of the threats that people such as you use.

"oh, you think you're able to live your own life, but you'll be sorry"

I remember a brother of mine telling me that "some day, you'll realize you need us".
That was more than 25 years ago, and believe me, I wouldn't trade places with any of them for all the tea in China. For the life of me, I can imagine what I would need from any of them.

If you have a good family, that wonderful.

However, you know all those really screwed up people who can't manage their own lives? They are telling their family the same thing.


Sorry, but I can, and have, done better than that.

Guess what sad mom, your sons are going to go off, and start families of their own.

you are right in cases of physical and mental abuse,but sometimes people make mistakes and really are sorry for what had happened. Is it really better to spend your life without them? Do you ever say things you don't mean? If you want others to forgive you need to do the same. People like me... you have no idea who I am or how I live my life. Giving advice to others is easy living your own life is not. You can't imagine what you could ever need..maybe love...maybe friendship...I would hope we
all could use a bit more. I hope my sons do have families of there own. I would hate for them to live life without having a family.

Sad mom... what do I want to say to you? Hmmm, trying to find the right words.

I can sense your pain that your sons want to associate with people who aren't forgiving you and that you've had a close relationship with, but their relationship with your sister isn't about you, it's about them and your sister. I can understand why you feel the way you do. And I like your attitude to let things be the way they are (between your sons and your sister) - you're just coming here to get some help to not feel upset about it. I get that.

Your hurt is, I think, from the fact that you're now excluded from those associations. Am I right? Family is a weird concept. We are all such unique people that it's not surprising family members don't always get along. We are taught that we should, that FAMILY is everything, but as Chai said, that's not always the case. So if you can look at everyone in your family as just people you know and maybe love, it might give you a different perspective.

I have 6 sisters, but don't associate much with 2 of them - my choice. I don't even think of them as family anymore. They're just people I grew up with. Could you try to see your family members the same way? It really takes the heat off and the hurt out of these situations.

If I may I wouldn't apologise sincerely more than once. Why don't you consider saying something along the lines of 'look, I've already apologised, and I would like things to be right between us. What has to happen for things to become normal between us again?" (you should get the idea of the question)

Sad Mom - why do you hang on to the fantasy that one's family must keep the ultimate bond amongst themselves?

You don't get on with a certain person. That person may even be toxic to you. Yet you keep trying to make it work.

There are probably other non-relatives whom you choose not to associate with. Yet there's probably no angst in cutting them off.

We let relatives get away with alot - just because of the family ties.

Very good advice, vikorr! One thing I HATE is for someone to give a false, self-serving apology. Ask yourself what your part in the wrongdoing really was...and then, recall exactly what you apologized for and if your apology was sincere.

I have theis completely retarded, yet INFURIATING story... An older woman in the family took a picture of me in my underwear at the beach, and I was completely unaware she was doing it,...until I saw it online in her photo gallery, where several other people I knew could see it.

I had TOLD HER EXPLICITLY the day before and at least two other times that I have a weird thing about being photographed and for her please not to take any pics of me.

She acted all innocent and apologized because "I was upset that she didn't delete the picture before she downloaded them all online". The apology was just as bad as the infraction.

Think about what you actually did, and if your apology addressed it.

If the apology sucked, think about what you really did and offer a sincere apology of ownership for it. It may be that you do this same thing a lot and they are tired of dealing with it.

OR, they may be mean asses.

Anyway, only one sincere apology is necessary. More would be useless and demeaning to you.

Do you want to share the history so perhaps we can help?

I think you and I are a bit alike in the trouble we'll go to to keep family connected.

I'll go to a lot of effort and engage in a good deal of damage control and apologies (if I'm wrong) and forgiveness...but there IS a point when I'm done. And, when I'm done, it is over.

I think Vikorr's advice about finding out if there is anything you can do to smooth things over with your sister is a good starting point. I think it's best to enjoy family as long as we can...but NOT if they are the continuing source of misery or this type of drama.

Try to focus on YOUR part in the trouble...but also think about her role in it. Maybe the assessment of a neutral party would help you see who is doing what between you and your sister. Anyway, good luck! I do hope it works out for you.

I was watching hoarders last night. A woman had 16 kids, 10 were still alive. Her kids had been taken away from her because of abuse and neglect. The kids were older now and had gone back to help the old bitch clean up the place or she would end up homeless.
What I found remarkable, aside from the filth some people can turn a blind eye to, was the way these people interacted with each other. They attacked each other verbally, yelling and screaming and also physically throwing themselves at each other.

Of course this family is waaaaaaay over on the crazy side, but the doctor on the show made a remark, these people had never learned other ways to communicate. I thought of this thread last night while watching the show. Reading some of the latest posts alludes to the same thing.
I'm definitely NOT saying sadmom in anyway is like this family. However, it dawned on me that sometimes we follow the same patterns. Especially with those we learned them with. Perhaps, instead of relying on your past apologies, you could learn new ways to deal with the old problems. In other words, maybe you could see a counsellor, a psychiatrist or read a book on how to achieve communicating with your sister/family in other ways than you've done in the past. A new approach maybe the ticket.

yes,you have a very good point.

also a good suggestion, thanks.