Did I get raped?

An update on the situation:

I was just informed by my friend (who is roommates with the guy involved in the situation), who spoke to him at length. she tells me that he remembers me reaching down and touching his penis while his pants were still on after he removed my underwear from under my skirt.

I don't know if this is true, as I don't remember it, but it certainly changes my train of thought.

I was also told that when I was put into bed by my friend I said "I want *guy's name* to come home with me."

Considering this new information, I realize now that if this is all true, I really can't call this rape. And I may even have to call it consensual, albeit under the strong influence of alcohol. This is a really strange and emotional realization and I can't begin to explain how ashamed I am of myself and how much I regret Thursday night. I really can't explain the fear that I had when I realized that something was inside me, and it doesn't make sense to me why I would say these things or do these things. I really don't know what happened and I really feel very terrible and torn up inside. This wasn't rape, but this is regret.

However, I still maintain that regardless of what I did or said, I did not want to have penetrative sex with him. And when I thought I was having sex, I was consciously aware of the fact that I did not want to be doing it, and I was scared, and I didn't know what was happening and I did not have the coherence to say "no."

I don't know what this is anymore, and I am so confused. I feel awful and I can't explain how much I regret this and how much I wish this never happened.

The most important question is what have you learned from it. I'd love to see you verbalize that when you're ready to do so. Look forward, not backward. What, if any, changes in behavior will come of this life lesson?

I still have to repeat ehBeth's line of thought though. Why would you wish to be friends with people who find nothing wrong with driving you around in a car while some guy is having sex (consensual or otherwise) with you in the back seat? Friends are supposed to look out for each other, aren't they?

These two statements conflict. How could you not know what was happening if you thought you were having sex and were consciously aware of not wanting to?

Are you sure you even had sex? Maybe he was too inebriated to perform? You said earlier he's a nice guy. Do you think if you'd had the 'coherence to say no' he would have stopped?

what I mean is that I didn't know if I was having sex, because I'd never had sex. I remember feeling pain and thinking I was having sex. I also did not know where I was. I was "in and out" of awareness. that's what I mean by "not knowing what was going on." and I was "aware that I did not want to be doing it" in the sense that I thought I was having sex and I knew that I didn't want to and I didn't think I could stop it and all I could do was say "do you have a condom on?" and I heard him reply "yes" and then I tried to look and couldn't lift my head up and from that point I don't remember anything.

EDIT: it is also confirmed that he did not use a condom, because it is still in his wallet.

Your friend is roommates with this guy and she knows that he didn't use
a condom? If indeed he penetrated you without a condom you need to get
tested for HIV and any other STD's immediately.
This is like playing Russian roulette.

I have an appointment with the gynecologist tomorrow afternoon.

Mame, people can have conflicting desires about what they want to happen - it's quite common really.

Dosed - glad to see you are going to get checked out

Calamity, your objection is about the process, rather than the outcome, which is what I was talking about.

From everything I read in the newspapers, which of course isn't a bible, these days it's quite common for younger women to drink more than the men.

Considering your original objection was whether or not a guy took advantage of an intoxicated woman and had sex with her, this is a moot point. If your point is that it's unlikely he was as intoxicated as her, that's not knowable by us.

You have that wrong....they drink as much as the men, they want to match the men drink for drink to prove that they are equal, but not only are they smaller generally but the female body is not the male body and it just so happens that it does not deal with alcohol as well.

Well, it happened, and feeling awful won't change anything. It wasn't rape; there are 2 parts to the legal definition: one is consent (from your actions any reasonable man would conclude that was a given) the second is coercion: did anyone force you to do anything? Doesn't sound like it.

Stay on track with your medical follow-up and tell the whole story to your gynecologist - who must have already heard variants of it hundreds of times, so you won't need to do much explaining - then at least you'll be in control of what happens from now on. That includes cutting back on the drinking

Seriously Hawkeye, are you just trying to be pointlessly argumentative with your posts? The second half of your statement is obvious and has nothing to do with what I said (what I stated related purely to the 'amount' drunk), and the the first half you basically said 'they drink equal amounts' which is one drink short of what I said. From that you come up with 'you are wrong'?

Hi Dosed,

This is why I separated out the two things.

In terms of bringing rape charges, I see why you are talking about what he might have thought about your intentions. He really might be a basically good guy who was caught up in a bad situation.

But remember that when you are that compromised that severely (when you're that drunk), you are incapable of giving consent.

That's why dlowan and I keep talking about the "fault" thing. It can go both ways. He can be reasonable enough that it's not fair to bring rape charges against him; nonetheless, it can also FEEL like rape to you, with all that entails.

That's perfectly reasonable, and I'm worried that you won't find the help you need to deal with that here at A2K, or amongst your friends. Maybe the gynecologist can recommend a counselor for you. Again, very glad you are getting to a gynecologist, good move on your part.

good news from the doctor.

it appears that I am still a virgin and there was no bruising or any sign of penetrative sex occurring. He also did an std test and took blood work for an hiv test and to run a semi-accurate test for roofies (which isn't fully accurate because it might be all out of my system by now) as a cautious measure and for my own peace of mind.

I have learned a very important and valuable lesson and I know now to be more protective of myself when I go out and to watch how much I'm drinking, especially around people I don't know. I also learned how responsible I actually am for my own actions.

Glad to hear it, on all counts.

Thanks for the update!

Hope the test results are all good.

What a relief! I am glad that things turned out better than originally thought.

I haven't read all of this thread I will tell you that up front. But I do agree with those telling you this shouldn't be labeled as date rape. You admit you were all over him and you also admit neither of you remembers what actually happened. Unless you remember, it would be wrong to accuse anyone of rape.

I do suggest you do go to a doctor and get tested for AIDS and STDs and whether or not you might be pregnant just to be on the safe side. I also suggest, since alcohol seems to be a problem with you, that you get some help. Blacking out is very, very dangerous. You have absolutely no control and you don't know what happened. In a blackout you may wake up anywhere and in any condition or you may not wake up at all.

I might suggest you talk to a professional counselor so that you can help resolve some of the feelings you are having. I pray you find some help and peace.

You should read her last post, AM.

Thank you for telling me. I do appreciate it. I'm glad things worked out so well for her.

Dosed,

Here's some info for you with tips on how to protect your drinks (and your friends) when out drinking. I learned something new from it too. I didn't know that the drug sometimes turns your drink a blue color. That's important to keep in mind so you don't order or accept from someone a blue-colored drink that would disguise the color.

http://studenttravel.about.com/od/springbreak/a/roofies.htm

In an earlier post of yours, you said this:


To tell someone in a state of emotional turmoil--turmoil about anything--that they should "stop talking to people in their real life about it" is about the worse advice that anyone could give that person. People in distress need others they can turn to for support, to use as sounding boards, to help them more calmly evaluate situations, and to help them sort out what they are feeling. To suggest that they bottle up the turmoil and suffer in silence, is downright harmful.

Furthermore, your assumption that, "you will now be pressured to get the guy into trouble with the law" is absurd. Why would anyone pressure her to do that? The friend in the car with her would certainly be unlikely to do that--the friend, who was, in effect, a witness to what happened, did not think anything harmful was taking place, so why would she suddenly pressure her, after the fact, to report it to the police? And why would any other friends pressure her to report it either? Would reporting it help her clarify anything in her own mind? Someone in a rape crisis center would also be unlikely to pressure her to do anything regarding reporting a possible rape, since their purpose is to offer support, and they leave decisions regarding legal action entirely up to the client.

So, I couldn't disagree with you more regarding the advice you have given Dosed. People in a state of emotional turmoil or emotional distress need people they can trust that they can turn to for support and help. Their own welfare should be their primary concern. They need people they can talk to. Any possible issues about getting another party "into trouble with the law" should not be taking center stage. Dosed is fully in control of whether she wants to become involved in any legal situations, and those who care about her will understand and respect that. Telling people to distrust others, at a time when they may need them the most, is not at all helpful.


Your above statement is filled with misinformation--and, again, your promulgating such misinformation is downright harmful to anyone reading this thread. There are no mandatory reporting laws that would apply in Dosed's situation--Dosed is not a child who has been sexually abused, she is a 20 year old college student, who is presumably quite legally competent to protect her own interests. Mandatory reporting primarily refers to the obligation, on the part of state designated mandatory reporters, to inform protective services in cases of abuse of minors or the elderly. Again, you are inappropriately warning Dosed to be fearful of the very people she should be trusting at a time she needs them--including mental health professionals.

You must be completely out of touch with the American legal and mental health system if you don't understand that licensed mental health professionals must maintain confidentiality, and confidentiality is a matter that is taken very seriously. She can tell such mental health professionals, including those in the university counseling service, pretty much anything, short of her plans to murder someone, and they must maintain the confidentiality of that information.They have no interest in whether she presses charges against someone else for rape, robbery, fraud, or any other crime under the sun which might have been committed against her--their interest is in helping her to deal with, and understand, her emotional state. And they maintain confidentiality of the therapeutic relationship and the information they receive.

Universities, who notoriously sweep incidents of sexual assaults under the rug, have no "mandatory prosecution policies" and there are "no mandatory arrest laws" binding them--what on earth are you talking about? Universities have an obligation to warn students if a dangerous person is on the campus, or to notify the police in case of an imminent danger, but that has nothing to do with what you are talking about, and those things would happen only after a student specifically notifies them about such a situation and asks them to take action.

I think that others reading this thread should understand that what you are offering is not just poor advice, it's misinformation which is downright harmful. When people need help, they should seek it, and tactics designed to irrationally frighten them about doing that are really uncalled for.