68
   

The Republican Nomination For President: The Race For The Race For The White House

 
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Feb, 2012 05:25 pm
@realjohnboy,
realjohnboy wrote:

This thread is, I guess, pretty much dead in terms of the original topic. Thanks a lot.
I can start a new thread and those of you who derailed this one can stay here. Or, here is a novel idea, someone could start a new thread with a title that reflects whatever it is you all are talking about.
Let me know what you decide. Thanks.


It's not dead - conversation just wanders. It's not as big a deal as you are making it out to be.

Here - let's try and get it back on track by filling up the space with on-topic discussion.

Quote:
Posted at 01:24 PM ET, 02/16/2012
A GOP nightmare scenario
By Jonathan Bernstein

The news today is filled with signs that Rick Santorum is winning in Michigan and is basically tied with Mitt Romney nationally. While Romney is still the favorite for the nomination, the possibility of a long- drawn-out struggle raises another possibility — a GOP nightmare scenario — that has gone unexplored.

Specifically: What if Santorum wins the bulk of contested primaries and caucuses and leads in national opinion polls — but Mitt Romney wins the nomination? If that happens, the general election could get a whole lot tougher for him.

Here’s the scenario. In a close nomination battle, it’s all about delegates. But Santorum’s campaign is badly lagging in organization. This could mean he doesn’t reap all the delegates that might be his due if we assume, for the sake of argument, that his current popularity holds or even gets stronger. Santorum has already failed to make the ballot in two key states, Virginia and Indiana. Has he filed full delegate slates in other states where it’s required? If not, he could win, but still not get delegates.

In most GOP caucus states, the voting is not strictly connected to delegate selection. If Santorum’s voters don’t understand the procedures, it’s very possible he could win the vote and yet pick up only a handful of delegates. Indeed, that may have already happened in caucus states he’s won, like Iowa, Colorado, and Minnesota.

That’s not all.

Because there’s such a bewildering mix of delegate selection rules in the Republican process, a smart campaign can focus on the best places to win delegates. But it’s hard to make good strategic choices when you don’t even have a pollster! We’ll see this on February 28, when Romney will apparently win Arizona’s winner-take-all primary even if Santorum does hang on for a Michigan win, where the delegates are apportioned in a complex mix of rules. It’s very possible that Romney and Santorum could split the two states, giving Santorum great headlines, while Romney cleans up in delegates.

It’s not impossible — though it’s very unlikely — that the popularity contest could leave Santorum as the clear, unambiguous winner, while Romney becomes the clear, unambiguous nominee. Imagine Santorum finishing with a five point edge or more in votes — even as Romney gets crowned the GOP candidate for president.

If that happens, it’s hard to see rank-and-file Republicans accepting the outcome as legitimate, even if the Republican partisan press tries hard to sell it. And it’s even harder to see Romney kicking off the fall campaign successfully if half his party believes he stole the nomination.

By Jonathan Bernstein | 01:24 PM ET, 02/16/2012


http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/post/a-gop-nightmare-scenario/2012/02/16/gIQAmjy2HR_blog.html?wprss=plum-line

Cycloptichorn
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Feb, 2012 05:29 pm
It's starting to look like the nomination battle is going to go down to the bitter end, b/c of the way the GOP set the calendar up this year -

http://dailydish.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83451c45669e20168e7848073970c-popup

Quote:
The GOP’s Chaotic Primary Calendar Makes Early Nomination Clinch Tough

by John Avlon Feb 17, 2012 4:45 AM EST

The party’s primary schedule makes it unlikely that a candidate will amass the 1,144 delegates needed to win the nomination before late May or even June, ensuring a bloody primary battle—and even raising the possibility of a brokered convention.

With Texas court-ordered to move its primary back to at least May 28, the delegate math it takes to win the GOP nomination just got a lot tougher.

Now, the likelihood that any candidate will clinch the nomination before late May or even June seems increasingly distant. After all, the Lone Star State alone offers 155 delegates—more than one tenth the total needed to get to the nomination holy grail of 1,144. And the vision of a brokered convention is edging from overheated political-junkie fantasy to dim possibility, with the odds up to 26 percent on the Internet gambling site Intrade.

All this is deep in the land of hypotheticals until we see how Super Tuesday breaks. Mitt Romney still has a decided edge in delegates to date, along with the money and organization to successfully run a long primary race. But if Rick Santorum continues his swing of wins in the Midwest and carries Romney’s home state of Michigan, Mitt’s inevitability and electability myths will be shattered. Republican Party leaders will go from spooked to something approaching outright panic.

The irony is that the Republican calendar now creating mass heartburn was put in place explicitly to help candidates like Romney. Back in 2008, Romney was beloved by conservative activists, evangelicals, and the right-wing, talk-radio crowd. At the time, there was much grousing about how center-right John McCain was able to secure the nomination with a few early wins in all-or-nothing states. So party leaders had the bright idea of taking a page from the Democrats' playbook and made almost three fourths of the states proportional. This made it much harder for any one candidate to clinch the nomination early. A preponderance of caucuses also ensured that activists would have a chance to drive the process. But the best-laid plans sometimes have unintended consequences.

Play around with the CNN delegate calculator and you can see that even if Romney were to win every contest going forward with 100 percent of the delegates (that’s called kickin’ it North Korea-style) he still wouldn’t reach 1,144 until April 3. Under a similar extreme scenario, it would take Rick Santorum until April 23. Here’s the real kicker: If Romney and Santorum were to split the delegates going forward and each were to carry five of the 10 all-or-nothing contests, neither candidate would win enough delegates to clinch the nomination.


Add to that mix the fact that Ron Paul’s got very little reason to not go all the way to Tampa collecting delegates along the way—and Newt Gingrich has sworn less convincingly to do the same—and the math gets even more daunting for Team Mitt.

They have one ace up their sleeve—Utah. It’s currently scheduled last in the primary calendar, on June 26, with 40 delegates; winner-take-all in a state that is famously Mormon-dominated. It could serve as a backstop for Mitt, bringing him over the top at the last possible moment.

But if no candidate hits 1,144 by the end of the process, buy some tickets and head to Tampa, because this is going to be one wild and weird party convention. Remember, all delegates are released after the first ballot. The Ron Paul-ites have been fantasizing about this scenario, and Sarah Palin has started to talk in circles about how she just might be available to ‘help’ in such an eventuality.

America hasn’t seen a true brokered convention since 1952, when Illinois Gov. Adlai Stevenson emerged with the Democratic nomination despite Tennessee Sen. Estes Kefauver winning more delegates. One upside: in the age of social media, we’d have more access to what goes on in smoke-filled backrooms than ever before.

Some people’s fantasies are other people’s nightmares. There are conservatives earnestly hoping that a more perfect candidate will emerge from the August heat of Tampa. Democrats are watching the cage-match primary tactics with something like unrestrained glee. But it all must feel like a cruel joke to Mitt Romney. He is among the most disciplined and organized of men, and the creeping knowledge that the math might not add up in the end is enough to make him wake up in cold sweats.

The chaos of the Republican calendar means that at the very least we are in for a bloody primary battle. The factional divisions inside the GOP are deep, and increasingly reflect regional divides that are as much cultural as political. But the longer this fight goes on, the more candidates will be forced to play to the far right, making it even more difficult for the eventual nominee to tack back to the center and appeal to independent voters. The stark fact of the delegate math means that there is no easy way around this problem for the party faithful. This goat rodeo is going to go on for a long time. Bet on it.


http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/02/17/the-gop-s-chaotic-primary-calendar-makes-early-nomination-clinch-tough.html

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Feb, 2012 05:31 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Solution: Romney drafts Santorum as his running mate and they stand there as the "Conservative team".

Romney may hate that but itd be the best way to avoid an intraspecies smack-down
Rockhead
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Feb, 2012 05:32 pm
@farmerman,
that's much too sane.

no way it happens with this bunch...
0 Replies
 
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Feb, 2012 05:34 pm
@reasoning logic,
Of course I don't. The closest I came was in the 2010 mid-terms. We remained remarkably on topic. Part of that was due to having a relatively small audience. And I had a couple co-hosts. We would throw out new data often which ended up deterring people from going astray.
I must admit that I don't understand the thought process behind deliberately destroying an innocent thread that someone else took the time to craft. Ego?
In the beginning of this, I would get emails from people in other countries following up on something that was said here. 3 or 4 emails a week from people in places like Europe, South America, Australia and the mid-east curious about our quirky election process. I have lost those people. I am sad about that.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Feb, 2012 05:37 pm
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:

Solution: Romney drafts Santorum as his running mate and they stand there as the "Conservative team".

Romney may hate that but itd be the best way to avoid an intraspecies smack-down


True, but they - the GOP base - hates Romney, so that's a terrible solution at best.

Cycloptichorn
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Fri 17 Feb, 2012 05:37 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
You wrote,
Quote:
It's not dead - conversation just wanders. It's not as big a deal as you are making it out to be.


I agree. It's on topic the majority of times. This is a chat site for cry'n out loud!
realjohnboy
 
  2  
Reply Fri 17 Feb, 2012 05:55 pm
@cicerone imposter,
OK. Maybe I am a bit grumpy today. But please scroll through the posts of the last few days.
Move on.
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Fri 17 Feb, 2012 06:02 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
Does that translate into, "I can't, but I am unwilling to acknowledge that I cannot?"


No. I can but fear it would get you all a tremble.

Provide a start point and I'll consider it. "Across a crowded room" if you like or walking into to massage parlour or a British Legion day trip in a coach to the Lakes.

You're being coy by staying comfortingly abstract.
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Fri 17 Feb, 2012 06:11 pm
@realjohnboy,
Quote:
This thread is, I guess, pretty much dead in terms of the original topic. Thanks a lot.


The candidates are exercised by the matter John. Mr Obama was being provocative. $100 a month is a subsidy or, if you prefer, a pre-election stealth bribe. For the contraception classes. And it proves there is no Christian in the White House no matter how many Bibles were sworn on.

The up and down ******* polls are off topic. This race for the White House might well hinge on the matter and if it doesn't it means that Mr Obama has bottled out after starting it.

A pulpit wipe out is a possibilty.


realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Feb, 2012 06:21 pm
The prospect of a brokered convention is, if you squint a bit, no longer just a remote possibility. Not likely, perhaps, but...not inconceivable, either.
If it happens it will not end up with Romney embracing Santorum.
(Romney (MA) and Santorum (PA) doesn't work geographically. Santorum and Gingrich (GA) does).
My theory is that there will be a "white knight" who will try to come in.
Sean Trende of RCP wrote about that today. He raises a possibility I had not seen before. Instead of waiting until the convention, another candidate might announce that he/she will come in near the end of the primary season (say, May) and raise a bit of a ruckus ahead of the August convention.
That scenario, it seems to me, would give that person a seat in the smoky room and a leg up in 2016.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Feb, 2012 06:21 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
nd Kennedy hated Johnson and Vice versa. Often the brokered deal is like the brokered candidate. Its what would be needed to make a win more secure.(Im not saying that the team would carry the nation but it would help solder up the GOP a bit)

Ive said before the GOP has to decide whether to

1maintain its "purity of essence" or
2win elections

They can only choose one because the GOP is operting under a false assumption that the nation is more conservative than it really is.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Feb, 2012 06:22 pm
This is a real rarity for me - a piece from Commentary magazine that's dead on.

Quote:
Santorum Wants to Ban Gambling?
Alana Goodman | @alanagoodman 02.16.2012 - 6:10 PM

National Review’s Jim Geraghty wonders whether there might be a business-related reason behind casino magnate Sheldon Adelson’s reported opposition to Rick Santorum. Take a look at what the former Pennsylvania senator had to say about gambling during a recent interview with Jon Ralston:

I’m someone who takes the opinion that gaming is not something that is beneficial, particularly having that access on the Internet. Just as we’ve seen from a lot of other things that are vices on the Internet, they end to grow exponentially as a result of that. It’s one thing to come to Las Vegas and do gaming and participate in the shows and that kind of thing as entertainment, it’s another thing to sit in your home and have access to that it. I think it would be dangerous to our country to have that type of access to gaming on the Internet.

Freedom’s not absolute. What rights in the Constitution are absolute? There is no right to absolute freedom. There are limitations. You might want to say the same thing about a whole variety of other things that are on the Internet — “let everybody have it, let everybody do it.” No. There are certain things that actually do cost people a lot of money, cost them their lives, cost them their fortunes that we shouldn’t have and make available, to make it that easy to do.

Santorum seems mainly to be talking about internet gambling, which I imagine Vegas casino moguls would prefer to see shut down anyway. But it’s easy to see how Santorum’s argument could easily lead to stricter casino regulations – and even all-out bans – if taken to its logical conclusion.

The question is, where’s the conservative outrage? If Santorum’s comments aren’t nanny state-ism in its purest form, then what is? If President Obama made the same remarks, the story would be getting the Drudge siren. Conservatives would be up in arms. Twitter would be flooded with speculations over what “vices” the president would try to clamp down on next.

If you’re a conservative and you give Santorum a pass on this, you forego any future right to complain about liberals taking away your Happy Meals and trans fats. There have to be consequences for these things.


http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2012/02/16/santorum-ban-gambling/

I think that Santorum has a lot more problems for the GOP than some of his recent converts seem to think.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Fri 17 Feb, 2012 06:24 pm
@spendius,
Politics is not what you determine it to be John. If that was so we would all ask you who to vote for and you would be President.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Fri 17 Feb, 2012 06:26 pm
@realjohnboy,
The "smoke filled rooms" are long gone. That might be the main problem.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Feb, 2012 06:37 pm
Quote:
A Brokered Convention Could Be Dangerous for GOP

By Sean Trende - February 17, 2012

For the past two weeks, I've commented on the increased possibility of a brokered Republican convention. This is a scenario where no candidate manages to claim a majority of the delegates, and the convention deadlocks.

At that point anything can happen. Candidates can combine forces, urging their delegates to support another candidate (usually in exchange for a vice presidential nod or cabinet appointment). Or the convention can turn to an outside candidate in an attempt to break the deadlock.

The latter possibility has caused some excitement among GOP’ers dissatisfied with the current field. After all, a brokered convention could end up drafting one of their favored candidates, such as Mitch Daniels, Paul Ryan or Chris Christie. The idea is that this person could then unite the party in a way that none of the four current contenders has been able to.

This is certainly the upside of such a scenario. And one argument in particular supports it: The remaining field of candidates is clearly very weak. While it isn’t the weakest in my lifetime, it gives the 1996 Republican contenders and the 2004 Democratic group a run for their money.

So if you look at the 2012 field and conclude that none of them can defeat President Obama, then a brokered convention probably makes sense for Republicans. In other words, if you believe the GOP couldn’t do any worse than Ron Paul, Rick Santorum, Mitt Romney, or Newt Gingrich, then there’s little to be lost with a brokered convention.

I wouldn’t personally endorse that view, as I continue to believe that this election is about Obama, and that his re-election chances are quite weak regardless of his opponent. Reasonable minds can certainly disagree, but if you conclude that one of the remaining four could win, I think the upside of a brokered convention has to be weighed against these downsides:

1) A brokered convention is like a box of chocolates. You never know what you’re gonna get. A brokered convention truly is a wild affair with unpredictable results. Sometimes you get a candidate who wins and becomes a president that most historians later consider “near great,” such as James K. Polk. Sometimes you get a candidate who wins and becomes a president like Benjamin Harrison, who did some good things and some not-so-good things. And sometimes you get Franklin Pierce, who probably made the Civil War inevitable. You might even get John W. Davis, who failed to excite his party and won just 28 percent of the vote.

Remember, “brokered” is a bit of a misnomer. Party brokers (whoever they are) may decide upon a particular alternative, but the delegates -- who will show up in Tampa largely believing that Gingrich, Paul, Romney or Santorum should be president -- may not be in any more of a mood to follow the party “establishment” than the GOP electorate as a whole is.

So while one may envision Jeb Bush or Paul Ryan emerging from the convention as the party’s standard-bearer, the possibility is real that the Gingrich and Santorum delegates could coalesce around someone like Sarah Palin. Now, for some Republicans that’s an attractive feature in the scenario. For others, it is the worst imaginable outcome. Regardless, it’s a real possibility.

2) “What It Takes,” 2012 edition. Richard Ben Cramer’s account of the 1988 presidential election is a classic, not just of election literature but of non-fiction in general. It was with a bit of sadness that I revisited it in preparation for this campaign, since this will likely be the final campaign to include any of the candidates profiled in the book (at least one major candidate from the book has played a part in every election from 1988 through 2012).

The theme of the book is simple: The candidates who win presidential races are the ones most willing to do what it takes to win; candidates who pull their punches fall by the wayside quickly. This is as true today as it was 24 years ago. Tim Pawlenty may be able to look himself in the mirror for not tearing down Romney early on, but it will never be a mirror in the presidential bathroom.

It is also an underappreciated problem of a brokered convention in the modern setting. All of the alternative candidates mentioned as potential winners in a 2012 convention are politicians who looked at what it took to win a contested primary, followed by a nasty general election, and then for whatever reason decided that it wasn’t worth it.

That’s a dangerous outlook on the election to have, especially when Team Obama has decided, if nothing else, that it is absolutely willing to do whatever it takes to win. Say what you will about Gingrich and Santorum, but they wanted to be president so badly that they were willing to carry their own luggage during a summer when everyone wrote them off. Romney has his flaws, but after a six-year presidential campaign we can safely conclude that a desire to become president is not one of them. So while we may admire Mitch Daniels for placing his family above the presidency, that same trait may be a substantial flaw in a modern presidential candidate.

To be sure, there may be reasons a candidate who wanted to avoid an 80-week marathon would nevertheless be willing to go all-in for a 10-week sprint (although it would be followed up by a long, four-year term in office). Regardless, this is a serious cause for concern. Once the afterglow of the convention wears off, how will a candidate who didn’t entirely want to do this in the first place fare?

3) A campaign in the 2000s is different from a campaign in the 1800s. The golden age of the party conventions took place many decades ago, before the invention of television, and in large part before radios were available. Candidates typically declared their intentions to be considered for president shortly before the convention. The convention might go on for several days, and it could be ugly, but few outsiders knew what was going on.

And after that gathering, the nominee often sat at home (candidates didn’t start appearing at conventions until the mid-1900s) and delivered daily speeches to sojourners who trekked to, say, Marion or Canton, Ohio, to hear him speak. Some of the more energetic candidates sat aboard trains and delivered speeches to crowds that gathered to see them at various stops.

In the meantime, the parties organized torchlight parades, prepared pamphlets, and used partisan news organizations to spread their message and get out the vote. There were no commercials, no 30-second ads, and no “gotcha” interviews broadcast in prime time and replayed on YouTube. In other words, campaigns took place in a much more controlled environment. This is how a mediocrity like Warren Harding ended up winning the largest popular-vote victory in history after emerging from a brokered convention.

Obviously, things are very different today. Every moment of the convention will be captured on TV. Camera crews will surround the candidates, interview supporters, and always be on the lookout for signs of chaos or disorganization. If any such signs emerge, it will contrast sharply with the Democratic convention one week later. Remember, one of Obama’s main campaign themes will be “regardless of what you think of me, you do NOT want to turn power back to these people.” A chaotic Republican convention plays directly into this attack.

After being selected, the nominee will have to choose a running mate (in truth, the convention will probably do this, which could be even worse), prepare a platform, decide upon campaign themes, prepare for debates, prepare for interviews, get ads running, and learn the nuances of how various grain subsidies affect Wisconsin commerce and why the U.S. maintains the position it does on the anti-Russian insurgency in the North Caucasus. And he or she will have to raise, quickly, about a half-billion dollars to compete in the general election. There is very little time to do this, as debates start in six weeks, and new organizations will be clamoring for interviews with the candidate.

Could all this be done? Sure. But cautionary tales abound. Imagine if Rick Perry had passed on a campaign, been selected in a brokered convention, and stepped onto the debate stage shortly afterward against President Obama. Or we can look to the ill-fated campaigns of Fred Thompson and Wesley Clark, or Sarah Palin’s vice presidential candidacy.

The primaries serve a vital function in preparation for the general election; this is where a candidate hones his debate skills and works out his campaign platform on a gradual basis. Every presidential nominee in my lifetime became a better candidate during the course of the primary season, and if nothing else, the primaries allow voters to weed out weak candidates. There are very few people who could skip this time period without any major negative effect on their chances.

And if the GOP nominee has a skeleton in his or her closet, or in their family’s closet, there is no turning back.

4) There is no time for party wounds to heal. The divisions arising in the Republican primary are in many respects the symptoms of a divided party. Just about every pundit I’ve read has a different idea regarding who would be the ideal nominee to emerge from such a convention, and usually has a different priority that prompts that support.

This says nothing of the supporters of the candidates who make their way to Tampa. Paul, Santorum, Romney, and Gingrich will all have won both votes and delegates in the primaries. That gives them a degree of legitimacy that will elude any outsider. This is especially true if a candidate goes into the convention with a substantial lead in either delegates or popular votes. Though some supporters of that candidate will be “soft,” and won’t care that their man didn’t grab the nomination, I suspect that many will not be so understanding.

Now, divides always occur to a certain extent during a primary season. Extended primaries inherently expose fractures in the party, and the losing side is always disappointed. But then there is an extended period of “quiet time,” when the losing side comes to terms with the presumptive nominee. Conventions are increasingly a cathartic moment where supporters of the losers come around -- witness Hillary Clinton and the 2008 Democratic convention.

But with a brokered convention, there is no time to heal. Not only will many of the supporters of the already-declared candidates likely exit the convention hall disappointed, but the supporters of various outside candidates who don’t get the nod will also be angry. And then the general election campaign starts immediately. It will be difficult enough to put together a coherent campaign in 10 weeks. It may be impossible to do so while also having to heal intra-party rifts.

Most other years, I would have put this objection either first or second. If John Edwards had stayed in past Super Tuesday in 2008, preventing Clinton or Obama from claiming a majority of the delegates, I think the 2008 convention would have torn the Democratic Party apart. This year, the considerations are different, because all four GOP candidates are seriously flawed, and support for them (with the exception of Paul) is probably shallow. In other words, the wounds inflicted might be superficial, and may be entirely offset by the increased enthusiasm that surrounds the nomination of Daniels (or whoever). Still, we’re talking about a not-insignificant number of Republicans who would be disappointed in this outcome, and in a close race, this could potentially make a difference.

***

Some of this could be avoided by a variant of a brokered convention. If a candidate were to enter late (the absolute deadline for this is mid-March), sweep most of the final caucuses and primaries, engage in some debates, and use the summer to put together a general election campaign, then that candidate would be in a much stronger position to claim the mantle of legitimacy at the convention, and to win in the fall.

But failing that, this is a very risky strategy for Republicans. Unless you think the current crop is an absolute disaster waiting to happen -- again, a defensible position -- the Republican Party would be playing with fire if it went down this road.

Sean Trende is Senior Elections Analyst for RealClearPolitics. He can be reached at [email protected].


http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2012/02/17/why_a_brokered_convention_would_be_perilous_for_the_gop_113168-full.html

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Feb, 2012 06:47 pm
@spendius,
Don't count the smoke filled rooms being long gone, Spendi.
ABC quotes an anonymous "top GOP senator" as saying tonight that if Romney loses in Michigan, "We need a new candidate."
The senator, who claims that he has not endorsed anyone, says he would publicly call for a new candidate, adding "We'd get killed with Romney."
I think you asked about Michigan a few days ago, Spendi. I don't know if we got to talk about that. It is going to be pivotal, I think.
reasoning logic
 
  0  
Reply Fri 17 Feb, 2012 06:47 pm
@realjohnboy,
Quote:
In the beginning of this, I would get emails from people in other countries following up on something that was said here. 3 or 4 emails a week from people in places like Europe, South America, Australia and the mid-east curious about our quirky election process. I have lost those people. I am sad about that.


I see what you are saying that would suck but I do think you should be happy for the moments of fame that your thread received because it may be a rare thing unless you are in the in crowd, "then you may find this on a more regular basis.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Feb, 2012 07:54 pm
@realjohnboy,
You don't need to tell me what I should scroll through.
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Feb, 2012 08:16 pm
@realjohnboy,
Caramba! Haven't we had enough new candidates, already?
0 Replies
 
 

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