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The Republican Nomination For President: The Race For The Race For The White House

 
 
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Sat 24 Dec, 2011 05:42 am
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
Just learned th a t Ron Paul is a racial bigot, and I once believed he had a good shot for my vote.


Which shows that you don't know anything about politicians and, as politics is what politicians do, nothing about politics.

Politicians have no principles outside of the sadistic impulse to control.

To get control in what is a "superbowl" clash of the two most determined politicians it is necessary to stitch together a coalition of voters large enough to win an election. Any principles are applied from the outside by the rules.

So racial bigotry will pick up votes. It will lose some as well. But the only lost votes that matter are those which were in the coalition before the bigotry was expressed. And it might win some votes that were previously not in the coalition. A calculation probably based on geography and tradition.

When Mr Paul's statements were made the attitude to racial bigotry was not as negative as it is now. He would have calculated at that time that racial bigotry would not bother most of his supporters enough for them to desert him and any votes picked up by expressing the bigotry are thus cost free. They increase the size of his coalition and supporters of his other policies, particularly his economic policies, will turn a blind eye to the bigotry in the service of him winning.

For a Republican the prospect of upsetting people with racial bigotry is not as strong as it is for a Democrat and the votes of such people are lost anyway. In general terms I mean. An individual response is worth one vote. He might lose your vote and pick up thousands of others.

To justify the bigotry back then it might be argued that if the bigotry exists in a significant proportion of the electorate with which he is concerned it is to be expected that a politician will express it. Our system requires that. An unexpressed bigotry leads to frustration far more than when the bigotry is expressed and defeated at the polls.

So back then Mr Paul was acting as a politician on a limited stage. What he said then has no relevance to the situation now on a larger stage where racial bigotry is a general vote loser. Or is thought to be in eastern, megalopolitan chattering-class circles the members of which earn multiples of what the average black man earns, have better access to health care and justice and don't practice miscegenation.

And the attention being given to what Mr Paul's team put out in his name nearly 20 years ago is objective proof of his political abilities. His attitude to the race issue will have been trimmed now to chime with the 2012 attitude on the national stage.

He probably filled his diapers full of **** three times a day once but we don't hold that against him.

I would think he is too old. His age means that the VP spot is a matter of greater importance than is the case with younger candidates.





0 Replies
 
jcboy
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Dec, 2011 06:07 am
Less than 2 weeks until the (disproportionately) important Iowa caucuses! I'll be really interested to see if they pick Mitt Romney or Newt Gingrich. What's that you say? There are other candidates? Ron Paul opposes corn/ethanol subsidies. Done! Iowa has voted Democrat in '88, '92, '96, '00, and '08 anyway so really we're seeing which Republican they prefer to lose.
0 Replies
 
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Dec, 2011 06:16 am
The NYT's reports on a GOP twitter that Gingrich failed to qualify in VA.
LionTamerX
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Dec, 2011 08:37 am
@realjohnboy,
Quote:
The NYT's reports on a GOP twitter that Gingrich failed to qualify in VA.

Apparently Newt and Perry both missed the mark in Va.
blueveinedthrobber
 
  2  
Reply Sat 24 Dec, 2011 09:03 am
@LionTamerX,
first thing I saw when logging on to the news this am. Early Christmas present.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Sat 24 Dec, 2011 11:11 am
Since Newt failed to get on VA's ballot, is that an indication that he's a poor manager? Doesn't know how to plan? What other failings does he have in addition to getting married three times? Did he say "until death do us part" three times? If he lies to god, family and friends, is he trustworthy? Do we want him as our president?
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Dec, 2011 12:14 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Yeah, but he (Trump) could still gum up the gears a bit.

This isn't new btw, he was blustering about it before, but taking the step to actually quit the Republican party, specifically to clear the way for an independent run, is another level.

Of course it could just be face-saving re: his stupid debate debacle (he wanted to host a debate, nobody wanted to participate, now he's saying he couldn't have done the debate because it would be a conflict of interest if he's a potential candidate).

At any rate, I hope he runs.
0 Replies
 
Lustig Andrei
 
  2  
Reply Sat 24 Dec, 2011 02:23 pm
Haven't read through the latest responses yet. Has anyone mentioned the fact that the elder Geo. Bush has endorsed Mitt Romney? A self-proclaimed Texan snubbing a Texan candidate?
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Dec, 2011 02:29 pm
@Lustig Andrei,
Yeah, the Bushes were never conservatives.
I felt bad when Reagan chose Bush
to balance off his own conservatism.





David
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Dec, 2011 02:30 pm
@Lustig Andrei,
Haven't heard that. By the way, do you think endorsements are influential in the general course of events.
Lustig Andrei
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Dec, 2011 02:49 pm
@roger,
I'm not sure how much difference endorsements make, Roger. But sometimes they indicate what the trend of current thinking is in the higher ranks of any party. You can find the Bush endorsement story on the webside of the Houston daily, whatever it's called. I've misplaced the link.
0 Replies
 
realjohnboy
 
  2  
Reply Sat 24 Dec, 2011 03:03 pm
@roger,
Lustig: We are talking about President Bush the Elder who has been friends with Mitt and with Mitt's dad. Bush's folks claim that this was not an "endorsement" of Mitt but rather an "observation" that, at this time, Mitt is the "most electable candidate" against Obama.
The Houston Chronicle recently recounted Bush talking about an incident in 1990 when - because of a recession - President Bush was going to have to renege on his famous "Read my lips, no new taxes" pledge. Repub and Dem leaders met at the White House to hammer out details. Then House Whip Gingrich was there and went along. The group gathered just outside the Oval Office with, Bush claims, Newt at his side. When they went outside, Newt was gone! He went running to the Capitol to lobby against the plan that had just been agreed to.
I don't think Bush ever liked or trusted Newt after that.
Lustig Andrei
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Dec, 2011 03:16 pm
@realjohnboy,
reajohnboy wrote:
I don't think Bush ever liked or trusted Newt after that.


There are very damn few people inside or outside the GOP who like or, especially, trust the Ginch.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Dec, 2011 03:27 pm

Trust shoud be kept to a minimum.

No one shoud trust anyone.





David
Lustig Andrei
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Dec, 2011 03:30 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:


Trust shoud be kept to a minimum.

No one shoud trust anyone.





David


Why in the name of everything holy would I vote for someone I do not believe I can trust?
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Dec, 2011 04:12 pm
@Lustig Andrei,
Because people you can trust don't get past the envelope stuffing stage in politics.

The problem doesn't arise for me because I've never voted since I tried it once many years ago and found myself feeling absurd. The half pencil with which to mark a cross on the ballot paper was fastened to the wall with a string and the cubicles were made from rough sawn 2x2s and hessian sacking. Considering it is a once in five years operation and the money spent campaigning it gave me an idea what the fuckers think of us once they stop bullshitting.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Dec, 2011 05:20 pm
@Lustig Andrei,
OmSigDAVID wrote:
Trust shoud be kept to a minimum.

No one shoud trust anyone.





David
Lustig Andrei wrote:
Why in the name of everything holy would I vote for someone I do not believe I can trust?
U can play the odds.
U can and u shoud assess the probablilities.





David
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Reply Sat 24 Dec, 2011 05:27 pm

About 5O years ago, I drove my parents to the polls to vote.

Our candidate won by 2 votes.





David
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Dec, 2011 06:08 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Did you notice any difference, Dave, in your daily lives?

Had you had a puncture on the way there the result would have been different so it hung on their being no nails on the road or possibly just a leaky valve.
0 Replies
 
failures art
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Dec, 2011 07:30 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:


About 5O years ago, I drove my parents to the polls to vote.

Our candidate won by 2 votes.





David


What election was that?

A
R
T
 

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