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The Republican Nomination For President: The Race For The Race For The White House

 
 
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Feb, 2011 09:51 am
I kinda like Jon Huntsman and would probably vote for him over Obama in '12. He'd never make it through the Republican primary process though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Huntsman,_Jr.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Feb, 2011 10:35 am
Interesting, JPB, thanks . . .
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  0  
Reply Mon 14 Feb, 2011 11:03 am
@Irishk,
Irishk wrote:

PPP: Obama leads GOP front runners in eight major swing states...

Quote:
In 2008 Barack Obama won nine states and one electoral vote giving Congressional district that had gone to George W. Bush in 2004. We’ve now polled every single one of those over the last three months except for Indiana, where we can’t do one because of restrictions on automated polling in the state. Across 36 horse race match ups against Newt Gingrich, Mike Huckabee, Sarah Palin, and Mitt Romney in Florida, Ohio, North Carolina, Colorado, New Mexico, Virginia, Iowa, Nevada, and Nebraska’s 2nd Congressional District Obama is 36 for 36. If he stood for reelection today against one of the current Republican front runners Obama would almost certainly win the same number of electoral votes he did in 2008, if not more.


Breakdown at the link.


I think the above is why Republicans are mostly afraid to get into the race this year. Nobody wants to be the loser and right now nobody is polling well against Obama.

It's not just PPP either - Fox polls have found the exact same thing:

http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/021111_2012_election_web.pdf

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Feb, 2011 11:06 am
@JTT,
JTT wrote:

Quote:
Almost half of the people there are college students who got in for a deeply discounted price ($35). They, along with the other participants, with do a straw poll tomorrow.


People have to pay to hear politicians campaign for jobs the people, their bosses will give them.

How stupid is that!


shhhhh, don't blow the scam
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  0  
Reply Mon 14 Feb, 2011 11:08 am
@JPB,
JPB wrote:

I kinda like Jon Huntsman and would probably vote for him over Obama in '12. He'd never make it through the Republican primary process though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Huntsman,_Jr.


The problem for Hunstman is that there is absolutely nothing distinguishing him from Pawlenty or Mitch Daniels.

Cycloptichorn
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Feb, 2011 11:14 am
@Cycloptichorn,
I don't see either of them as centrists even though Daniels has called for a "truce" on social issues.
Cycloptichorn
 
  0  
Reply Mon 14 Feb, 2011 11:17 am
@JPB,
JPB wrote:

I don't see either of them as centrists even though Daniels has called for a "truce" on social issues.


Who cares about that? They are all going to have to sprint to the right as fast as possible, or they will lose the Republican nomination, period.

Their previous voting record is meaningless at this point. It'll be a race to repudiate every thing they ever said that could be construed as even somewhat liberal.

I was referring to the fact that they are old white guys who look and sound very similar.

http://minnesotaindependent.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/tplarge3.jpg

http://www.lafayette-online.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/mitch-daniels.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/33/Ambassador_Jon_Huntsman.jpg

If you came up with a caricature of a 'generic Republican,' all these guys would fit right in.

Cycloptichorn
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Feb, 2011 11:18 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:

JPB wrote:

I don't see either of them as centrists even though Daniels has called for a "truce" on social issues.


Who cares about that?


um... me, if I'm going to vote for someone.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Feb, 2011 11:20 am
@JPB,
JPB, Thanks for sharing the Wiki link to Huntsman; if he runs, he'll get my vote over Obama too! Looks like a good man who has both business and charity experience. He'll be a moderate republican for sure, and I like his background.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  0  
Reply Mon 14 Feb, 2011 11:21 am
@JPB,
JPB wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

JPB wrote:

I don't see either of them as centrists even though Daniels has called for a "truce" on social issues.


Who cares about that?


um... me, if I'm going to vote for someone.


You know as well as I do that they are going to either have to abandon their former moderate positions or they won't get the nomination.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Feb, 2011 11:22 am
@JPB,
Like I said...

JPB wrote:

I kinda like Jon Huntsman and would probably vote for him over Obama in '12. He'd never make it through the Republican primary process though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Huntsman,_Jr.
Cycloptichorn
 
  0  
Reply Mon 14 Feb, 2011 11:23 am
@JPB,
Yup. From his Wiki page:

Quote:
Huntsman has at times taken positions that put him at odds with his party's conservative base. Jennifer Rubin, a conservative pundit with the Washington Post, stated her opinion that "Huntsman isn't, and never has been, a rock-solid conservative."[22] According to Ed Kilgore of the New Republic, he holds "progressive stances on climate change (which many conservatives don’t even believe in), immigration, civil unions for gay couples, and education."[23] Steve Kornacki of Salon.com argues that Huntsman "separated himself from the Republican Party's Tea Party base by embracing and endorsing Obama's stimulus."[24] He has shown support for civil unions.[25] He also "signed up with the Western Regional Climate Action Initiative," a "regional cap-and-trade system," in 2007.[26]


I see three killers right there alone.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Feb, 2011 02:21 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

True; although people like okie love to make the claim that Lincoln was a republican.

What makes it ironic and funny is that Lincoln was responsible for the Civil War to outlaw slavery that was essentially a war between the north and south (now predominantly home of conservatives), and he was the first to authorize income taxes.

okie always makes a fool of himself, because he fails to understand history and facts.


Lincoln WAS a Republican.

At the time the Democrat party was the champion of slavery. After the Civil war it was the foe of Reconstruction and the Champion of Jim Crow racism - reaching a peak in the presidency of Woodrow Wilson and continuing until the Civil rights legislation of the 1960s - legislation that was supported by nearly all the Republicans in the Congress at the time.

Who is the fool here????
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Feb, 2011 02:44 pm
@georgeob1,
That's what I said; Lincoln was a republican.

It's interesting that you would look at history to declare that liberals were for slavery, but that was over 150 years ago. That's history. What is more important is what has impacted our lives by the two parties in power. Liberals have provided more equality to everybody - including blacks during the past 50 years.

The GOP is now engaged in controlling women's lives by taking their rights away on abortion. The GOP is also engaged in taking away equal rights against gays and lesbians. The GOP wants to diminish social security benefits. They also want to repeal ObamaCare that the OMB says will cost over $200 billion.

Where's the beef? Slavery has been gone from our landscape for over 150 years.
Cycloptichorn
 
  0  
Reply Mon 14 Feb, 2011 02:47 pm
@cicerone imposter,
To be fair, George said that 'Democrats' were the party of slavery, not Liberals. And that's true.

Cycloptichorn
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Feb, 2011 02:49 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
That's true, and I agree. But it's also true that most people see democrats as liberals.
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Feb, 2011 04:58 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

That's true, and I agree. But it's also true that most people see democrats as liberals.


That depends entirely on the particular interpretation of the term "liberal" that you use. The traditional (and historically accurate) European definition better fits Republicans. Contemporary Democrats have adopted a different term, "progressive" to denote the interventionist government directed programs they favor for many aspects of our economic and social lives. I believe it is a more precise and better defined term.

However, like Humpty Dumpty in Alice in Wonderland, the words mean exactly what you want them to mean.

cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Feb, 2011 06:12 pm
@georgeob1,
I thought we were talking about US politics. I guess I mistook the talk of Lincoln as something wholly different from American form of conservative-republican vs liberal-democrats.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  -3  
Reply Wed 16 Feb, 2011 10:48 am
You liberals sure are a racists bunch of neanderthals and Chauncey DeVega is a mouth piece for Obama.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Feb, 2011 11:13 am
Quote:
FiveThirtyEight - Nate Silver's Political Calculus
February 14, 2011, 8:01 pm
Should Republicans Fret Over Their Presidential Field?
By NATE SILVER

Republican insiders, reports the Washington Post’s plugged-in Jennifer Rubin, are worried about the quality of their slate of presidential candidates for 2012. Indeed, it has become the conventional wisdom to assert that the Republican field is a fairly weak one. (I’ve also made some off-handed remarks to this effect.)

But is there any evidence for this? Or is it just the sort of thing that partisans always tend to complain about at this point in the political cycle?

As Ms. Rubin notes, the 1992 Democratic field looked very weak — until the emergence of Arkansas Gov. Bill Clinton, who turned out to be one of the better natural politicians of our time. Could we be looking back two years from now and wondering why we hadn’t seen Tim Pawlenty or John Thune or Mitch Daniels coming, since they had turned out to be such a manifestly terrific candidate?

Of course that could happen. A lot will change between now and November, including the perceptions toward each of the Republican candidates.

The early evidence, however, suggests that this year’s Republican field may in fact be quite weak by the standards of recent election cycles.

The exercise that follows is quite simple. Using data from PollingReport.com, I’ve taken a simple average of the favorability ratings for presidential candidates in both parties at a comparable point in time to the one we’re in now: the first six months of the year before the election. PollingReport.com’s data covers the previous three presidential cycles — 2000 through 2008 — so those are the years that we’ll be looking at.

Here, for example, is how the Republican contenders for the party’s 2000 nomination looked at a comparable point in time 12 years ago — that is, between January and June 1999:

http://www.538host.com/papr1.png

It might seem hard to believe now, but George W. Bush was once extremely popular — and, in fact, he was popular well in advance of the 2000 election. In early 1999, polls had an average of 63 percent of Americans viewing him favorably (indicated by blue in the graphic above), versus 16 percent unfavorably (indicated by red). Although Mr. Bush’s numbers eroded some over the course of the campaign, he won an election that wasn’t so easy to win, against the vice president of a popular outgoing president.

Another extremely popular Republican — although one who wore considerably less well — was Elizabeth Dole. John McCain, meanwhile, wasn’t nearly as well known as Ms. Dole or Mr. Bush, but most voters who knew about him liked him — he elicited just 10 percent unfavorable views versus 25 percent favorable ones. PollingReport.com does not have data on file for two other candidates, Steve Forbes and Dan Quayle. On balance, however, this was a strong Republican field.

Democrats also had a competitive primary that year. Both of their candidates, Al Gore and Bill Bradley, were reasonably popular. (Although Mr. Bradley wasn’t all that well-known, his favorables trumped his unfavorables by a 3-to-1 ratio).

http://www.538host.com/papr2.png

The Democratic field four years later wasn’t quite as impressive. But John Kerry had fairly promising numbers at this point in 2003 — 31 percent favorable against 14 percent unfavorable — as did Joe Lieberman. A couple of other Democrats (John Edwards and Dick Gephardt) were also in positive territory.

http://www.538host.com/papr3.png

Mr. Bush, meanwhile, won renomination without a contest; he was still very popular at this point in 2003:

http://www.538host.com/papr7.png

The 2008 Republican field, although not remembered all that fondly, started out with two fairly popular candidates in John McCain and Rudolph W. Giuliani. Fred Thompson, also — although his campaign never really gained momentum — had pretty good numbers among those who knew him, with his favorables outweighing his unfavorables 2 to 1. (There was no data at this point in time for Mike Huckabee, whom the pollsters apparently considered too obscure to survey.)

http://www.538host.com/papr4.png

On the Democratic side, Barack Obama was quite well-known by early 2007 — and quite well-liked, with 45 percent taking a favorable view of him against 20 percent unfavorable. John Edwards was also reasonably well-known and reasonably popular. Hillary Clinton, on the other hand, triggered a much more polarized reaction: almost everyone had an opinion about her, and it split right about down the middle. Still, Democrats could not have had a lot of complaints about what they had to pick from.

http://www.538host.com/papr5.png

That brings us to this year’s Republican field. Here are the current favorability numbers for 11 potential candidates who (i) have not denied their interest in the presidency and (ii) have been polled enough times for Talking Points Memo to have generated a LOESS regression trendline based on recent favorability surveys:

http://www.538host.com/papr6.png

As compared to the other examples that we’ve looked at, there’s an awful lot of red in that chart — meaning, candidates whom the public views more unfavorably than favorably. Two exceptions are Mike Huckabee and Mitt Romney, who are slightly into positive territory. On the other hand, Sarah Palin and Newt Gingrich have especially poor ratings.

Several other candidates, like Mr. Thune and Mr. Pawlenty, are not yet terribly well-known — which means that they have plenty of room to grow. Nevertheless, their numbers were worse than someone like John Kerry, who was also not all that well-known, but who elicited favorable (rather than ambivalent) reactions from those voters that did know him.

So it does look like Republicans have some legitimate reason to worry. In the previous five competitive primaries — excluding 2004 for the Republicans, when Mr. Bush won re-nomination uncontested — each party had at least two candidates whose net favorability ratings were in the positive double digits, meaning that their favorables bettered their unfavorables by at least 10 points. All five times, also, the nominee came from among one of the candidates in this group. Republicans have no such candidates at this point in time.

Meanwhile, the Republicans have two candidates in Ms. Palin and Mr. Gingirch whose net favorability ratings are actually in the double-digit negatives, something which since 2000 had only been true of Pat Buchanan and Al Sharpton.

There are plenty of examples of candidates who became considerably more popular (like Hillary Rodham Clinton) or considerably more unpopular (like Elizabeth Dole and Mr. Giuliani) over the course of an election campaign, so none of this is set in stone, especially for the candidates who aren’t yet well-known. Likewise, it’s hard to say what Barack Obama’s standing will look like by November 2012 (right now, his favorability ratings are 51 percent favorable against 41 percent unfavorable).

I would quarrel with Ms. Rubin’s notion that Republicans are squandering a “golden opportunity.” On the one hand, incumbent presidents aren’t easy to beat; on the other, the identity of the opposition candidate only matters within a fairly narrow interval (when the president’s approval rating is between roughly 40 percent and 50 percent). But unless a candidate like Mr. Clinton emerges, Republicans may well be at some risk of underachieving.


That is a noticeable difference for sure.

Cycloptichorn
 

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