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The Republican Nomination For President: The Race For The Race For The White House

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Reply Fri 4 Feb, 2011 06:01 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Sounds like a reasonable argument to me! Especially, since the Ras polls usually leans towards conservative favoritism. A consolidation of all polls seems like a reasonable way to measure current thinking on many different issues.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  2  
Reply Fri 4 Feb, 2011 06:52 pm
@realjohnboy,
Found this:

Quote:
Republicans Move to the Right

The source of the shift in abortion views is clear in the Gallup Values and Beliefs survey. The percentage of Republicans (including independents who lean Republican) calling themselves "pro-life" rose by 10 points over the past year, from 60% to 70%, while there has been essentially no change in the views of Democrats and Democratic leaners


http://sas-origin.onstreammedia.com/origin/gallupinc/GallupSpaces/Production/Cms/POLL/r6nv3ssnjeo3e5rmjcp-wq.gif

http://sas-origin.onstreammedia.com/origin/gallupinc/GallupSpaces/Production/Cms/POLL/j_lokucqe0ewmqfbanch1q.gif

I think that reinforces the idea that social issues are important for Republicans rather than rebuts it.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/118399/more-americans-pro-life-than-pro-choice-first-time.aspx
cicerone imposter
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 4 Feb, 2011 06:58 pm
@sozobe,
soz, Interesting, those two charts; into 2009, it's an increase of 10% on abortion by prolifers for republicans, but for the same period, the second chart hasn't moved any for democrats. It proves republicans are more concerned about social issues now than they are other issues. It's been pretty stable for democrats since 2001.
0 Replies
 
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Feb, 2011 08:00 pm
@sozobe,
Ha. That, I think, shoots a hole in some of my theories.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  2  
Reply Fri 4 Feb, 2011 10:53 pm
@sozobe,
Intel at nymag and a few others have been commenting on some interesting changes

Quote:
Gay-Fearing Righties Swing, Miss
Big boycott flops.


http://nymag.com/news/intelligencer/71281/

Quote:
When the Conservative Political Action Conference launches on February 10, the mood will be uncharacteristically flamboyant.

Not only because the gay caucus GOProud will be prominently participating, but because the anti-gay National Organization for Marriage, the Family Research Council, and other “values” organizations won’t be.

Together, they’ve mounted a CPAC boycott, an effort to strip the newish homosexual element from the conservative coalition and part of a larger bid to forcibly remarry social and fiscal conservatives.

The bet was that distaste for gay people themselves—as opposed to lightning rods like gay marriage or adoption, which aren’t included in GOProud’s platform—is still a strong right-wing motivator.

It’s a bet they seem to have lost.



Quote:
The tea party is now the most electorally potent portion of the GOP base: Exit polls indicated that 41 percent of voters in the midterm House races supported the movement, and 87 percent of those people voted Republican. At the same time, only 50 percent of tea partyers self-identify as socially conservative.



Quote:
In 2008, gay-marriage bans again appeared on state ballots. In tea-party 2010, the Republicans didn’t need to try the move again. Now, with the fizzling of the CPAC boycott, it seems this brand of fear-mongering has lost its usefulness. Even “family values” champion Rick Santorum will speak at CPAC, willing to let the issue slide in the interest of wooing a larger voting bloc.

In perhaps the most telling indication that the tactics of the anti-gay right have failed, conservative-website mogul Andrew Breitbart recently joined GOProud’s advisory council. He’s also announced that he’ll host a dance party for gay CPAC attendees
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Feb, 2011 11:07 pm
@ehBeth,
That last one is a doozy! LOL
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Feb, 2011 12:12 am
Well for the poll addicts here if the % of pro life Republicans has been rising and the % of Pro life Democrats has remained constant, then it is equally certain that the % of pro life Americans has risen - just as I asserted.

This interesting data, however certainly does not mean that the electoral volitility of such social issues is necessasarily greater than (or less than) that involving concerns about increasing government cost and intrusiveness in our lives. Neither does it mean that attitudes on all "social" issues follow the same pattern.

Indeed the truth is that attitudes concerning all of these issues overlap in varying ways by issue and population segment - this an obvious result of the overlapping objective factors involved in them.

It is simply a readily observable fact that issues of government debt and spending and the size of government spending generally were a far more significant factor in the last elections than were those concerning social issues. Whether this trend continues or not is another question: none of us knows for sure. However, my opinion is that this is likely to continue. My evidence for this is in the increasingly assertive behavior of state governments regarding expensive Federal mandates and the fast approaching debt crises affecting the (mostly red) states as well as the Federal government - factors that will likely sustain these concerns.

In addition the relative success of the liberals in American politics of getting their way on issues concerning homosexual marriage and the like, contrasted with still growing opposition to their proposals for new spending and easier granting of employment monopolies to labor unions also tells us something relevent here. I don't claim to know the reasons for this, but the evidence of it is clear enough for all to see. Frankly I don't attach much inportance to the difference in either case, as all of these issues have key elements in common - an increasingly intrusive Federal government engaging in increasingly expensive activity to regulate and direct increasing areas of our lives. My key point is that a growing segment of the voting population is opting for a less active and expensive Federal government.

A key test of all this will be the Congressional elections due in less than two years. There will then be a disproportionately large number of Democrat Senators up for reelection, giving the Republicans excellent chances of winning control of the Senate. Getting a veto proof majority will likely be a stretch, but it is a possibility. Frankly, I regard that as a more important objective than defeating the President, and I suspect that too will become an increasingly important element of Republican strategy in the months ahead. An inept, lightweight Democrat in the White House with a Republican House and Senate is a prospect I can live with happily.

rosborne979
 
  2  
Reply Sat 5 Feb, 2011 08:49 am
@ehBeth,
Quote:
Not only because the gay caucus GOProud will be prominently participating, but because the anti-gay National Organization for Marriage, the Family Research Council, and other “values” organizations won’t be.

I think it will be harder, and take longer, to run away from previous associations and to embrace new associations than they may hope.

Quote:
The tea party is now the most electorally potent portion of the GOP base: Exit polls indicated that 41 percent of voters in the midterm House races supported the movement, and 87 percent of those people voted Republican. At the same time, only 50 percent of tea partyers self-identify as socially conservative.

"The Tea Party" is a very ill-defined "party" (set of beliefs). This makes it easy for a lot of people to see what they like in it, without really knowing what the specific representatives of it may actually believe. As such it's likely to appear large in the polls, but be blunted in the voting booth.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Sat 5 Feb, 2011 10:51 am
@georgeob1,
George,

I don't specifically disagree with much of what you've written here; but the whole reason that this thing came up in the first place is because the very social conservatives we're talking about are beginning to complain about a lack of meaningful action or direction when it comes to their issues.

It's a problem for some candidates - such as Mitch Daniels. The guy would normally consider to be one of the front-runners for your side, but the fact that he's 'called a truce' on social issues makes him unacceptable for a lot of voters.

As I saw one writer put it recently on a right-wing discussion site,

Quote:

When you talk about a "truce" or ask people to shove social conservatism in the closet, the message Christian conservatives hear is, "When I get into power, I'm going to betray you."


The recent Republican failure to stop DADT reform didn't go over well with a lot of these guys, and the fact that the rest of the party doesn't seem to care too much reinforces this opinion that some of them have that most Republicans aren't focused on their issues. And it's true! You are correct that for most Republicans today, fiscal and foreign policy issues trump the social issues.

This was thrown into sharp relief by the recent CPAC convention - which again is what led to this conversation - where groups like GOProud and the Log Cabin Republicans were prominent this year, and groups like Focus on the Family and the Concerned Women of America stayed away. Instead many of these groups are going to be prominent at a rival 'value voters' summit later this fall.

The entire point I have been making here is that this represents a potential problem for Republicans in the next election and after. Religious voters and socially Conservative voters have long been understood to be amongst the most highly motivated voters on the right-wing, and they usually vote very, very heavily for the Conservative candidate; but if you get a candidate who has, like Daniels, 'called a truce' on those issues; will they support him?

This could be a real problem for the dream of the Republicans picking up the Senate. I think you know that Obama is an electoral force and that his supporters WILL be out to re-elect him - he's often derided by the right-wing as being good at campaigning but nothing else, but think about the implications of that. So the down-ticket Dems are likely to benefit greatly from this. Not only that, there are a few seats (Scott Brown in MA, Ensign in NV) that will be VERY hard for the Republicans to hold. This would mean additional victories would need to be had elsewhere in order to gain control of the Senate.

None of that above picture is made better for Republicans by having a candidate who eschews social issues. The Republican candidate is going to have to walk a really fine line in the upcoming election, to appeal to the traditional social base - but also show that they are evolving with the times, and that they aren't stuck in the past, to appeal to Moderates.

Cycloptichorn
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Feb, 2011 11:19 am
@Cycloptichorn,
I generally agree with your comments above. Perhaps the point here is that you are particularly interested in issues which may cause differences in focus, even dissention and conflict among Republicans, and I am relatively indiferent to them. You may be thinking, "well that SOB is just as interested in focusing on potential sources of dissention among Democrats". If so, you may have a point. Hard for me to judge, in that I don't often think about it.

There are among Democrat supporters those who fault President Obama for seeking (or merely accepting) the strange Health Care legislation that emerged from the Senate, as opposed to the single payer system approved by the House. Similarly there are others who may fault him for not pressing harder for Cap & Trade and some other goals sought by "progressives". However, I don't think he or other Democrat office holders are in serious danger as a result. The fact is that, as a group, they stuck together well and probably achieved as much of their legislative agenda as was practically possible. Arguments about "what if ..." and things that might have been don't, in my experience, count for much when such groups are faced with a real political opponent. I think the same applies to Republicans on the issues you cited.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Feb, 2011 01:46 pm
@georgeob1,
I agree with that, but the whole thing isn't coming up because Democrats are pointing out the problem; it's because some Republicans have been pointing out the problem, in public.

The problem doesn't consist of these people deciding to vote for Obama - that's not likely to happen - but in not being motivated to come vote at all. We saw some of that with McCain last cycle; he just didn't have what it took to get enough Republican voters out to the polls in key states. This in turn led to large victories down-ticket for the Dems. The Republicans can't afford to have another candidate in 2012 who doesn't get the base excited or they risk a repeat of the 08 election. But the base itself has become increasingly radicalized over the last couple of years, so tacking that direction risks alienating the moderates that are needed to win. This is difficult enough financially, when you add in the social issues it gets really complicated.

It's been my experience - and this may be just my opinion and not that of others - but social and religious Republicans don't seem to care much about the realities of electoral politics. When you reduce social policy decisions to biblical black-and-white terms, there's never any 'accept and move on.' It becomes difficult for these folks to reconcile the reality of the world they live in with the decisions their elected leaders take, and that leads to a great deal of apathy over time.

I'm not exactly upset over this development as it probably bodes well for my preferred side in the future. I wanted to discuss this because I believe what we are looking at here is one of the biggest issues that the Republican nominee is going to face in '12.

Cycloptichorn
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Feb, 2011 01:53 pm
@ehBeth,
At least this time the rank hypocrisy seems to point to some benefits.
0 Replies
 
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Feb, 2011 02:58 pm
Nate Silver of Fivethirtyeight has an amusing - and very colorful - graph of the 2012 Republican Presidential field. It can be found on the NY Times website.
I hope someone can link it for us.
Thanks.
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Sat 5 Feb, 2011 03:01 pm
@realjohnboy,
Ask and ye shall receive!

http://www.538host.com/gopchart.png

http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/02/04/a-graphical-overview-of-the-2012-republican-field/

Quote:
One can certainly debate exactly what it means to be a moderate or a conservative, and exactly where any particular candidate falls along this spectrum. Likewise, the insider/outsider dimension is somewhat blurry: is a potential candidate like Senator Jim DeMint of South Carolina, who aligns himself with the Tea Party but is also an influential senator, a part of the Republican establishment or an opponent of it? So my placement of the candidates is necessarily approximate.

With that said, it is exceptionally important to consider how the candidates are positioned relative to one another. Too often, I see analyses of candidates that operate through what I’d call a checkbox paradigm, tallying up individual candidates’ strengths and weaknesses but not thinking deeply about how they will compete with one another for votes. If you like, you can think of the circles on my chart as stars or planets that exert gravitational forces on one another, seeking to clear their own safe space in the galaxy while at the same time stealing matter (voters) from their opponents.

There are two more kinds of information embedded in the chart. First, the area of each candidate’s circle is proportional to their perceived likelihood of winning the nomination, according to the Intrade betting market. Mitt Romney’s circle is drawn many times the size of the one for the relatively obscure talk-radio host Herman Cain because Intrade rates Mr. Romney many times as likely to be nominated.

(I should note that there are several cases in which I am in considerable disagreement with the bettors at Intrade about the viability of each candidate. But using their figures as the basis for drawing the circles at least lends some objectivity to the assessment.)

I have excluded candidates like Gov. Chris Christie of New Jersey or Jeb Bush of Florida who have strongly denied any interest in running in 2012, even though some of them trade at nonzero values on Intrade.

Finally, the color of each circle reflects the region the candidate is from:
blue for the Northeast, red for the South, green for the Midwest, and yellow for the West.

Does this matter, by the way? I suspect it is somewhat overrated as a factor in the race — the notion, for instance, that voters in Iowa will have any special affinity for a candidate from South Dakota seems tenuous to me — but for parts of the country that have a strong sense of regional cohesion, like the South and perhaps New England, it is worth considering.

Let’s proceed to consider the candidates by working through the four quadrants of our “galaxy.”

Conservative Insiders
These are mainstream, conventional conservatives who will typically have jobs as governors or, especially, senators. Emblematic of the group is Senator John Thune of South Dakota. There is nothing especially distinct about Mr. Thune, whose chances I consider to be somewhat overrated. To some extent, though, that may be the point: he can excel at the areas that establishment candidates are typically good at, like fundraising and garnering endorsements, while at the same time being inoffensive to both moderate and conservative voters. An analogy can be drawn to John Kerry in 2004, an establishment liberal senator who won his party’s nomination under similar circumstances, while other candidates imploded.

The Washington establishment, of course, has not been popular of late — and Mr. Thune has cast some votes that he will have to answer for, like the ones on the federal bailouts. Still, the space surrounding Mr. Thune is not terribly crowded.

The other candidate who clearly seems to fit into his quadrant is Gov. Haley Barbour of Mississippi, but Mr. Barbour may have difficulty appealing to voters outside the South, especially after his recent comments about the civil rights era.

I have also placed Newt Gingrich in this quadrant, but there is a fair amount of distance between him and Mr. Thune, both stylistically and ideologically. Mr. Gingrich is a difficult case, a former Speaker of the House (it’s hard to get more establishment than that) who has more recently aligned himself with Tea Party groups.

Conservative Outsiders.
Central to any discussion of this group is, of course, Sarah Palin, the former Alaska governor. But Ms. Palin, if she runs, may find herself in a crowd. There are several potential candidates in her orbit, like Mr. DeMint, Representative Michele Bachmann of Minnesota, Rick Santorum of Pennsylvania, and perhaps Mr. Gingrich; these candidates may compete with her for voters whether or not they are viable themselves.

Meanwhile, there is Mike Huckabee of Arkansas, an old-fashioned populist whom voters see as more moderate than Ms. Palin, especially on economic issues. The constituencies of Mr. Huckabee and Ms. Palin are not exactly the same — she cannot match his appeal to evangelical conservatives, while he may not match hers to the Tea Party. But polls nevertheless suggest that voters who have Ms. Palin as their first choice often have Mr. Huckabee as their second, and vice versa. If either were to stay on the sidelines, the other would become a much more formidable candidate.

Moderate Insiders.
This quadrant may also become quite crowded. Two years ago, I placed Mitt Romney, a former governor of Massachusetts, slightly more to the conservative than the moderate side of the spectrum. But between his restraint in latching on to the Tea Party and some of the other causes of the conservative movement, and his having signed a health care bill while in the governor’s office that bears some resemblance to the one passed last year by the Democratic Congress, Mr. Romney seems likely to be branded as a moderate, whether he likes it or not. With that said, Mr. Romney is not so far removed from Mr. Thune, and the two candidates may compete with one another for support in the Republican establishment.

Perhaps of more immediate concern to Mr. Romney is a former Utah governor, John Hunstman, who may run for the presidency now that he is resigning from his post as ambassador to China, effective April 30.

Mr. Huntsman faces some significant hurdles — his name recognition is not terribly high outside Washington and his home state, and if he cannot begin to concentrate on his campaign until May, he may not be able to put together a strong campaign team or raise enough money. Also, his having served in Barack Obama’s administration could make his positioning awkward on a number of levels.

Still, he is similar to Mr. Romney in a number of ways, including policy positions and more superficial attributes like his Mormon faith and his good looks. One nightmarish scenario for Mr. Romney is that Mr. Huntsman takes enough votes away from him to keep him from winning an important early primary like New Hampshire, Nevada or Florida, even though Mr. Hunstman is not likely to win the nomination himself.

Another candidate in the general vicinity of Mr. Romney and Mr. Hunstman is Gov. Mitch Daniels of Indiana, who has more explicitly embraced his moderation. He has called for a “truce”, for instance, on social issues, and expressed a willingness to consider tax increases to rectify a budget deficit.

Mr. Daniels’s position is interesting. While he has a reputation for being a policy wonk, a quality that we would ordinarily associate with an “insider” candidate, his willingness to take controversial stands in some ways credentials him as a critic of the party establishment. Also, to the extent that geography matters, there aren’t very many Midwesterners to directly compete with him, apart (to some extent) from Tim Pawlenty.

Moderate Outsiders.
Except for Mr. Daniels, whom I place right at the insider-outsider threshold, this space is quite vacant, with only two potential libertarian candidates, Rep. Ron Paul of Texas and former gov. Gary Johnson of New Mexico, as well Donald Trump, who is considering a presidential run but who — oddly for Mr. Trump — has not attracted much publicity for it. One thing to consider about Mr. Paul and Mr. Johnson is that the votes they attract may come from people who would otherwise cast no vote at all in the race, considering how few other candidates are positioned anywhere near them.

The sparseness of this quadrant may be no accident: centrists of both political parties tend to work within the establishment rather than outside it. One who might have been an exception, Mr. Christie of New Jersey, has repeatedly denied any interest in running.

Tim Pawlenty I had trouble placing him in any of the four quadrants. As Jay Cost of The Weekly Standard points out, — Mr. Pawlenty enjoys something of a reputation as a moderate even though his positions are fairly conservative: he has pledged to reinstate the military’s “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy, for instance. Likewise, Mr. Pawlenty seems to keep Washington at arm’s length while having supporters within the Republican establishment.

I have been skeptical about Mr. Pawlenty’s candidacy, in large part because his personality is not terribly dynamic and he has had some trouble creating a strong brand for himself; sales of his book “Courage to Stand”, for instance, have been quite weak. Still, he can be credited with a viable strategy: stay a safe distance off the lead lap, and hope for a multicar pileup ahead of him.

That Mr. Pawlenty has been among the first Republicans to build out his campaign infrastructure fits with that strategy — it would be valuable in the car-crash scenario, which implies a long, drawn-out nomination process. So does the fact that Mr. Pawlenty could plausibly position himself as conservative or moderate, insider or outsider, as the situation dictates.


Cycloptichorn
sozobe
 
  2  
Reply Sat 5 Feb, 2011 07:01 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Love that graph.

As an aside, I can't believe two Minnesotans are on it. That Michelle Bachmann is just so UN-Minnesotan to me.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Feb, 2011 07:50 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
It may well be that the response of Republican and independent voters was different in the 2008 Presidential election from what it was in the recent Congressional elections. Frankly, I don't know the statistics or any differences that might have been established. Whatever they may be, we will have to do significant analysis analyze them to separate the contributions of multiple factors; the presidential candidates themselves and issues most prominent in 2008 and the issues at the fore in 2010, being probably the most prominent. Then we would have to project them onto the still evolving contitions surrounding the next presidential elections - all things considered a fairly tall order.

With respect to your specific suggestion that (as I understand it) evangelical voters most aroused by the social issues of abortion and homosexual marriage may be less committed in an election focused more on economic and public spending issue - much depends on the degree to which they are aroused by the economic and public spending issues themselves and the degree to which they may find themselves reconciled to Democrats who take opposite views on both social and public spending issues. I am skeptical on both points. The dilemmas you posited with respect to homosexual Republican groups may be real, but I just don't think they will be of great import. I can't prove this any more than you can prove that they will be significant - we'll just have to wait and see. I do think you may tend to excessively characterize and prejudge evangelical voters a bit.

In a similar way I believe far left wing progressive Democrat voters will be sufficiently mobilized by the prospect of whomever the Republicans choose as their candidate to get over whatever concerns they may have about Obama's supposed "centrist sell-outs".
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Sun 6 Feb, 2011 05:24 am
This is a fascinating thread, and as i said before, i don't consider myself well enough informed to comment. However, i do have a question for participants, and that is about conservative Democrats. Conservative Democrats changed the political landscape dramatically in 1980 by voting for Reagan, and in the Old South, many became Republicans. Even those who remained Democrats voted for him again in 1984, and although fewer than those who voted for Reagan, many voted for Pappy Bush in 1988. I consider Clinton to be a conservative Democrat, and that wing of the party was happy with him. The biggest differences between conservative Democrats and Republicans are on defense spending, social welfare programs and tax breaks for the upper income brackets. I don't think they're all that happy with Mr. Obama, but to get them to cross the line as they did for Reagan, i don't think a tea bagger candidate will answer.

What do you folks think about the prospects for the Republicans securing the vote of the conservative Democrats?
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Feb, 2011 07:30 am
@Setanta,
I think Mike Huckabee would have a chance at it.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Feb, 2011 09:54 am
@Setanta,
Very interesting point, Setanta. It suggests the proposition that observable shifts in the political landscape here (large and small) may be associated with shifts in the choices of voters roughly in the middle of the political spectrum modivated by various subsets of the collection of issues that usually define political allegiances and the parties themselves. These shifts can as easily be associated with drift in the competing party platforms as with drift in public attitudes or concerns - both occur.

This isn't to negate point Soz raised earlier about the disruptive potential of disputes among Republicans over social issues, but rather raises the question, 'are they likely in current circumstances, to cause such drift ?'. I suspect the answer among conservative Republicans will be no, however the smaller number of homosexual rights advocates among them may be so affected. Just an opinion, I can't prove the point - we'll have to wait and see.

I believe Setanta's question about the potential of Republicans to capture votes among conservative Democrats can be answered in part by noting the much touted shifts in the allegiances of "independents" in the last election. The term "independents" is mostly the useage of pollsters involving their questions & categorizations of voters in their repeated surveys - certainly more so than a fixed political alignment. I'm suggesting that, for the most part, these "independents" are in fact folks who have generally associated themselves with one party or the other, but who have identified themselves as centrist or susceptible to such drift in the polls themselves.

Using this interpretation, I think we can conclude that we have already seen a shift in the voting of conservative Democrats towards Republican candidates in the recent Congressional elections. Voter turnout issues in off year elections are likely a companion factor in the results of the last election, but the presence of a significant shift in voter attitudes appears undeniable to me.

Whether this will continue or be amplified in the 2012 election is something we will have to wait to observe. The prospect of continuing crises in the budgets and debt of state and local governments will certainly feed some of the growing concerns that (I believe) were behind the shifts in the last election (and the much touted "tea party" phenominon). The forthcoming debate about Federal budgets and the tradeoffs & consequences of needed spending cuts in the Congress certainly has the potential to add to - or alter the direction of - this process.

For myself, I don't yet see any strong Republican Presidential contenders. I believe it is very likely the Republicans will at least capture a strong majority in the Senate in the next election and retain their strong majority in the House. Frankly, that's good enough for me.
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Feb, 2011 10:12 am
Good morning. Rasmussen is out this morning with a poll of how various prospective Republican candidates might fare against Obama. Scott starts out with a disclaimer, listing all the reasons why the poll is probably meaningless and then presents his results.
Romney 44% - Obama 42% (+2)
Huckabee 43% - Obama 43% (tie)
Palin 38% - Obama 49% (-11)
Gingrich 39% - Obama 47% (-8)
Paul 35% - Obama 44% (-9)
Other Repubs are further behind.

Obama, in the approval poll out today, is at -3 (48% - 51%). Ras suggests that an incumbent who polls in the 42% to 49% range is likely to face a very competitive reelection effort.
Obama won the popular vote in 2008 by a 53% to 46% margin. He carried the all important electoral college vote 365-173 (68% - 32%).
In responding to your question, Set, it would be useful perhaps to start with a map of the U.S. showing which states Obama and McCain carried.
Perhaps someone could post that.
Thanks for watching by the way. Several folks have told me privately that they are following this thread and are finding it informative but are not participating.
 

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