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The Republican Nomination For President: The Race For The Race For The White House

 
 
spendius
 
  2  
Reply Sun 30 Oct, 2011 09:43 am
@Ticomaya,
Quote:
Well, with that sort of thinking, we should continue our military presence in Iraq and Afghanistan, because the combat pay is a welcome relief to the soldiers and their families.


And to those in the supply chain. We must not forget them.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Oct, 2011 09:54 am
@parados,
Quote:
Many city officials are under pressure from constituents tired of unsightly tent cities, dead grass and dangerous conditions. The cost to already struggling municipalities, which must protect and clean up after the protesters, is soaring.

“We know for a fact we’ve crossed the $300,000 threshold in terms of money spent so far for this operation,” said Atlanta Mayor Kasim Reed.

In San Francisco, the bill is more than $100,000.

“It’s just something that has to happen, it’s a worldwide movement,” said protester Dustin Sneed, who has been at the San Francisco protest since the beginning.

Across the country, the figures are growing. In New York City, overtime costs are $3.4 million. In Minneapolis, the sheriff’s department reports spending $200,000. And in Boston, the tally is $2 million and counting.
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2011/10/occupy-protests-cost-cities-millions/


parados said...
Quote:
Not because of the protesters but because of an unreasonable fear of the protesters.


I don't think it's an unreasonable fear of the protesters. Whenever you have a very large group of protesters, you have to have an adequate police presence to insure public order and to insure that laws aren't being broken. And part of that is to protect the people who are protesting from counter-demonstrators.
The longer the demonstrations go on, the more it's going to cost municipalities.

This is what the NYC Police Commisoner Raymond Kelly said
Quote:
"We always prefer to not spend overtime, but again, this is a big complex city, lots of things going on," Kelly said last week, describing the protesters' effect on the NYPD. "And we have to spend overtime for unplanned operations."...

In New York, officers from the city's First Precinct are patrolling the area near Wall Street, and other squads help out as necessary, depending on the size and movement of the demonstrators. If the crowd seems to be growing on a particular day, the NYPD dispatches more officers to the area, Kelly said.

"We are down 6,000 police officers from where we were 10 years ago, so it's difficult to do any type of protracted operation with people who are working in their regular tour of duty," Kelly said.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/11/nypd-costs-rise-as-occupy_n_1004799.html


It is because of the protesters, parados. It's the cost of maintaining their right to peaceful assembly and non violent protest.



spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Oct, 2011 09:59 am
@firefly,
They had plenty of spare resources for putting DSK through the wringer on the unsupported assertions of an immigrant cleaning woman with an extremely doubtful past.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Sun 30 Oct, 2011 10:14 am
@firefly,
I do not believe there will be counter demonstrators f0r pro-wallstreet.
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Oct, 2011 10:33 am
@parados,
I have a better idea.
How about making the protesters reimburse the city for ALL the costs asociated with these "occupiers".

ANY city expense that can be proven to have been a result of these protests should be paid for by the protesters.
If they cant pay, make them leave.

Walter Hinteler
 
  4  
Reply Sun 30 Oct, 2011 11:49 am
@mysteryman,
Would you adopt your idea for any demonstration/protest or just for those which you don't like?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Oct, 2011 11:53 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Yea, same q; when and where do you limit demonstrators? Do you want our country to rewrite our Constitution?
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Oct, 2011 11:56 am
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
I do not believe there will be counter demonstrators f0r pro-wallstreet.

People who live in the area of Zucotti Park in NYC have complained about noise from drumming and public urination and defecation. Not everyone is thrilled with having a large scale, unending, public demonstration in their backyard.

In a city like NYC, you will always have some counter-demonstrators, and assorted nuts, objecting to any protest group.

In addition, there are things going on within the OWS group in NYC--related to the homeless, or to a criminal element, or to actual crimes, that could escalate into a disturbance, requiring police intervention.
Quote:
Oct. 27, 2011
Occupy Wall Street kitchen staff protesting fixing food for freeloaders
By SELIM ALGAR and BOB FREDERICKS

The Occupy Wall Street volunteer kitchen staff launched a “counter” revolution yesterday -- because they’re angry about working 18-hour days to provide food for “professional homeless” people and ex-cons masquerading as protesters.

For three days beginning tomorrow, the cooks will serve only brown rice and other spartan grub instead of the usual menu of organic chicken and vegetables, spaghetti bolognese, and roasted beet and sheep’s-milk-cheese salad.

They will also provide directions to local soup kitchens for the vagrants, criminals and other freeloaders who have been descending on Zuccotti Park in increasing numbers every day.

To show they mean business, the kitchen staff refused to serve any food for two hours yesterday in order to meet with organizers to air their grievances, sources said.

As the kitchen workers met with the “General Assembly’’ last night, about 300 demonstrators stormed from the park to Reade Street and Broadway, where they violently clashed with cops.

Officers made at least 10 arrests when rowdy demonstrators refused to get out of the street and stop blocking traffic. A dozen cops on scooters tried to force them back to the sidewalk.

There were no reported injuries.

The demonstrators said they were angry over the violence in Oakland.

After making their way to Union Square, many of the protesters returned to Zuccotti.

The Assembly announced the three-day menu crackdown announced earlier in the day -- insisting everybody would be fed something during that period.

Some protesters threatened that the high-end meals could be cut off completely if the vagrants and criminals don’t disperse.

Unhappiness with their unwelcome guests was apparent throughout the day.

“We need to limit the amount of food we’re putting out” to curb the influx of derelicts, said Rafael Moreno, a kitchen volunteer.

A security volunteer added that the cooks felt “overworked and underappreciated.”

Many of those being fed “are professional homeless people. They know what they’re doing,” said the guard at the food-storage area.

Today, a limited menu of sandwiches, chips and some hot food will be doled out -- so legitimate protesters will have a day to make arrangements for more upscale weekend meals.

Protesters got their first taste of the revolt within the revolt yesterday when the kitchen staff served only peanut butter and jelly sandwiches and chips after their staff meeting.

Organizers took other steps to police the squatters, who they said were lured in from other parks with the promise of free meals.

A team of 10 security volunteers moved in to the trouble-prone southwest section of Zuccotti Park in a show of force to confront them.

“We’re not going to let some members of this community destroy the whole movement,” a volunteer said.

Some arguments broke out as the security team searched tents -- but no violence erupted.

Overall security at the park had deteriorated to the point where many frightened female protesters had abandoned the increasingly out-of-control occupation, security- team members said.

Rumors swirled that one homeless man had pulled a knife in a dispute the night before -- and that there had been yet another case of groping.

But protesters and a cop on duty told The Post that most of the crime goes unreported, because of a bizarre “stop snitching” rule.

“What’s happening in there is staying in there,” said the cop.
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/zuccotti_hell_kitchen_i5biNyYYhpa8MSYIL9xSDL#ixzz1c2ayMKmD

Quote:
PICKET: Occupy protesters relegated to a 'stop snitching' policy on crime within encampments
Kerry Picket
October 28, 2011

Crime in Occupy Wall Street's encampment Zucotti Park might be worse than the public realizes. According to The New York Post, crime at the park, which included a homeless man allegedly pulling a knife during an argument as well as claims of sexual assaults, is so out of control many protesters have resorted to a "stop snitching" rule. In fact, reports The Post, one NYPD officer said, that much of the crime goes unreported as a result. “What’s happening in there is staying in there," said the New York City cop.

Similarly, Occupy Baltimore protesters reportedly passed out pamphlets telling demonstrators not to report sexual assaults to police. After receiving much criticism, Occupy Baltimore later revised their policy but, according to the Baltimore Sun, the policy still does not encourage involving law enforcement after a sexual assault happens within the Baltimore occupy encampment.

Occupy Wall Street's security team has been at odds with organizers for quiet some time. The night before New York City occupiers marched on Times Square, OWS security volunteers complained to OWS organizers that only a handful of OWS security individuals were keeping watch of the entire park and working 30 hours straight with no relief.

The security team said that Occupy Wall Street had a 1 percent crime rate and too many OWS protesters were just "sitting there doing [their] thing" and "not doing [their part]" to help with security.

OWS security seems to be fighting an uphill battle, as the General Assembly within OWS apparently thinks a priority for the security group at OWS is to be renamed and not rough up disruptors within Zucotti Park.

"Because this is such an inclusive society, that we’re creating here... that we’ve evolved into, or that we were from the beginning, it draws everyone. It draws everyone, except maybe the super-rich. So when it draws everyone, you’re dealing with everyone’s conditioning...everyone’s f****d up conditioning," OWS facilitator John Friesen told me last week.

"Everyone’s like, ‘I’m out for me and myself.’ You know that kind of instinct and people are unruly and people are violent and people make threats. So that debate has been going on between people on the security team, which people want to be renamed the ‘de-escalation team.’There is 'peace keepers'. There is 'mediators,'" Friesen said.

Friesen added, "They're all just kind of trying to sort this out on how to work together in a more holistic approach versus security just checking someone. You know, like tackling them. So that’s definitely been a concern for us. How do we deal with disruptive people that for whatever reason they are doing that. It’s not a solved issue. Not by any means."
http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/watercooler/2011/oct/28/picket-occupy-protesters-relegated-stop-snitching-/print/


So, the OWS protesters are a very diverse group, and some people are congregating with them for reasons other than political protest. Security is a problem, not just for the NYPD, but for the OWS group itself.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Oct, 2011 12:01 pm
@firefly,
The more success protesters have the more rapidly they fall out amongst themselves.
0 Replies
 
Rockhead
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Oct, 2011 12:02 pm
@firefly,
what is a "professional homeless person"...?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Oct, 2011 12:06 pm
@firefly,
firefly, Thanks for sharing those articles on anti-protesters. Didn't realize such a "group" that demonstrates against wall street can have "other" problems of disturbance and crime. There didn't seem the same kind of problems when GW Bush threatened war against Iraq when millions demonstrated around the world against the war. At least I wasn't aware of any anti-demonstration from those events.

In today's world, anything is possible.

0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Oct, 2011 12:10 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
All of them, no matter who is doing the demonstrating.

Rockhead
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Oct, 2011 12:12 pm
@mysteryman,
so only people who can afford to pay for it get a voice.

sounds very conservative to me...
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Oct, 2011 12:12 pm
@Rockhead,
Quote:
what is a "professional homeless person"...?

It's not my term.

Sounds like people with a lifestyle of being homeless who are experienced and successful moochers, since the term wasn't used with any sympathy for those truly in need.
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Oct, 2011 12:13 pm
@cicerone imposter,
No, I dont want to rewrite the Constitution.
Unlike some people, I am happy with it, I just wish that everyone was and would follow it.

But how is requiring the demonstrators to pay for the extra costs infringing on their right to PEACEFUL assembly?
How is it infringing on their right to protest?
0 Replies
 
Rockhead
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Oct, 2011 12:14 pm
@firefly,
are there then amateur homeless folks?

and are they less dangerous?

hmmmm.
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Oct, 2011 12:15 pm
@mysteryman,
Who gets to decide what the cost of handling a protest is? And who should pay?
When Rosa Parks refused to give up her seat on a bus, should she have been responsible for the cost of every protest that followed?
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Oct, 2011 12:17 pm
@Rockhead,
Quote:
are there then amateur homeless folks?

and are they less dangerous?


It's got nothing to do with dangerousness. The OWS group just doesn't want to feed all these freeloaders who really aren't connected to their movement.
Rockhead
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Oct, 2011 12:20 pm
@firefly,
so even the 99% has a sub class to look down on.

interesting...
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Oct, 2011 12:20 pm
@firefly,
I thought they claimed to represent the 99%.

Doesnt that mean that everyone except the rich is connected to their movement?
0 Replies
 
 

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