The Republican Nomination For President: The Race For The Race For The White House

@Ticomaya,

Ticomaya wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:
It's not splitting hairs to say that there's a level of viability, after which the vast majority of babies who are born will survive, and before which, the vast majority are not. Our current restrictions do a good job of defining legality based on that level of viability.

How long before this magical point of viability should one be permitted to kill their baby? 1 hour? 1 day?

I believe that the law would say that technically either of those would be acceptable.

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I think that your argument is an Appeal to Extremes, but, I also think you knew that before writing it.

The extreme position is taken by c.i., who claims abortion is purely a matter between a mother an her doctor.

Let us say they are both extreme positions.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@reasoning logic,

To equate people in the west who think abortion is wrong with people why fly planes into buildings is an extremely silly thing to suggest. There are nearly 80 million Catholics in the US and they all think abortion is wrong and not a single one of them has flown a plane into a building on purpose nor tried to do. You're ******* nuts rl. How desperate are you and why?

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Ticomaya wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:
It's not splitting hairs to say that there's a level of viability, after which the vast majority of babies who are born will survive, and before which, the vast majority are not. Our current restrictions do a good job of defining legality based on that level of viability.

How long before this magical point of viability should one be permitted to kill their baby? 1 hour? 1 day?

I believe that the law would say that technically either of those would be acceptable.

Children are unable to provide food and other essentials for themselves until at least the age of two. Until that point they are absolutely dependent on others for continued life. Would you then say the age of viability is two, and that killing them before then is OK ?

My impression is that Tico's question was a moral one - not a legal one as you treated it. Moreover, you are wrong with respect to the law: the fact is that current law "technically' prohibits killing an infant after it is born, period. Interestingly the failure to provide effective care for an infant is also a violation of the law here in California and in most states.

In short, you haven't answered the question and your evasive attempt to answer a more convenient question was wrong.

1 Reply

@spendius,

Quote:

To equate people in the west who think abortion is wrong with people why fly planes into buildings is an extremely silly thing to suggest.

That is because you do not know that it has been done here before and if he owned a larger plane do you think he would have changed his mind?

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There are nearly 80 million Catholics in the US and they all think abortion is wrong

Like you really know what all of them have done?

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@georgeob1,

Come on, georgeob, there's a huge difference between a fetus a few days old vs a baby already born.

1 Reply

@reasoning logic,

reasoning logic wrote:

Ok I see that you have not studied the subjects well that we have talked about but who knows maybe one day you will get it!

You seem to have an aversion to answering direct questions put to you.

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@Setanta,

You're right. I took the statement without consideration of his prior position.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

Come on, georgeob, there's a huge difference between a fetus a few days old vs a baby already born.

Please explain the difference between a "baby already born" and a "fetus a few days old". If it is so huge, this should be easy for you.

In normal useage, both legal and medical, a child born prematurely (say) at eight months is almost certainly medically viable and is referred to as a premature baby, not a young fetus or something like that.

1 Reply

@Ticomaya,

Quote:

Okay. Like when the sperm fertilizes the egg? That seems like a bright line.

Why is that a bright line? Over 50% of fertilized eggs miscarry in the first month before the woman even knows she is pregnant.

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You're going to have to explain that one to me.

see my edit.

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That's your position.

And your position is that over half of all persons die naturally in their first month of life?

It's not really just my position however. Most laws set "birth" as the standard for any age related law. The Constitution also sets birth as the standard for citizenship and other rights. Are fetuses illegal aliens?

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@roger,

For Cain, the crux of that particular problem will be whether or not the press hammers him on it, or people speaking up at rallies and other public events. He may get out from under it, if no one goes after him on it. Even if someone does go after him, he may still be able to slide. The conservative demographic which would be most likely to be uncomfortable with his most recent remarks may well give him the benefit of the doubt on abortion. It remains to be seen.

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@Ticomaya,

Quote:

Who are people "like me"?

People who would vote to control private life!

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How have I tried to control anyone through a religious process?

same as above!

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I think you have no basis to make that claim. You have no way of knowing what value system I might have, or what might shape it.

Study anthropology, sociology and psychology and then you may know what I mean!

It is like me talking about physics to some one who studies it!
Could you imagine how ridicules I might seem in their eyes if I were to try and correct them about a subject that I am not familiar with?

1 Reply

@georgeob1,

A baby has citizenship upon birth; a fetus does not.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

A baby has citizenship upon birth; a fetus does not.

You are attempting to evade the question with a meaningless tautology.

What do we and the law call a living, viable fetus after it is born?

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@georgeob1,

We don't allow born children to be aborted.

You seem confused as to what is a fetus and what is a child george.

1 Reply

@parados,

parados wrote:

We don't allow born children to be aborted.

A meaningless statement - but typical of your inane pedantry. We don't allow dead people to be killed either. After birth, abortion is no longer a possibility.

parados wrote:

You seem confused as to what is a fetus and what is a child george.

No, it is Cicerone who is getting tangled up in his semantical evasions.

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@parados,

parados wrote:

Quote:
Okay. Like when the sperm fertilizes the egg? That seems like a bright line.

Why is that a bright line? Over 50% of fertilized eggs miscarry in the first month before the woman even knows she is pregnant.

Why does that blur the line? Would you prefer the line be when the fertilized egg is implanted?

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Are fetuses illegal aliens?

You are citing to citizenship laws to support your position on abortion?

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All conservatives that think they are at least somewhat intelligent should listen to this small business man and respond to how you think he may be wrong!

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@reasoning logic,

reasoning logic wrote:

Quote:
Who are people "like me"?

People who would vote to control private life!

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How have I tried to control anyone through a religious process?

same as above!

That response makes no sense. You evidently think I am trying to control "private life" by being opposed to abortion (and I'm still not clear on how that constitutes ME appealing to the masses, but let's put that aside for now), but that does not explain why you believe I am trying to control anyone through a religious process. Your answer -- that I am trying to control people through a religious process because I would vote to control private life -- is nonsensical.

Please put your big, logical brain to use and try to formulate a response that makes logical sense.

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I think you have no basis to make that claim. You have no way of knowing what value system I might have, or what might shape it.

Study anthropology, sociology and psychology and then you may know what I mean!

And what sort of a response is that? I have to sign up for several courses at the University of Phoenix in order to know what you mean? Surely you can dumb your response down enough for someone of my intellect to comprehend.

You made an assertion concerning my value system that you cannot support. Your implication that you have studied anthropology, sociology, and psychology (which anyone who has attended a liberal arts college has) is not satisfactory.

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It is like me talking about physics to some one who studies it!
Could you imagine how ridicules I might seem in their eyes if I were to try and correct them about a subject that I am not familiar with?

I'm getting the distinct impression that you trying to correct anyone on any subject is ridiculous.

1 Reply

@georgeob1,

No, I'm not; it's not my problem you fail to understand this simple truth.

A citizen is provided all the rights of all other "living" citizens. A fetus does not.

1 Reply

@Ticomaya,

Quote:

I'm getting the distinct impression that you trying to correct anyone on any subject is ridiculous.

If you were not able to understand that last part, what makes you think that if I took the time to explain that anthropology, sociology and psychology was relevant to the subject being discussed that you would then be able understand?

1 Reply

The Republican Nomination For President: The Race For The Race For The White House

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