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The Republican Nomination For President: The Race For The Race For The White House

 
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Sep, 2011 10:49 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:
It's gonna suck for you guys to be saddled with Mitt; he's such a phony bastard, and everyone knows it.

Being a phony bastard is a job requirement for any successful candidate, no matter what his party. Remember when Candidate Barack Obama chastised candidate Hillary Clinton for triangulating? And look what he's doing now.

One of the things I've learned in the past couple of campaigns is that you can't size up candidates by what they're saying day by day to be elected. You have to look at their records in office, if any, and to read whatever thoughts they've committed themselves to in writing. Thanks to this approach, I've known before most Americans that Bush-43's and Obama's merits fell short of their public images. Bush's tax policy was corrupt and fraudulent. Obama, while thoughtful and intelligent, seemed too indecisive and conflict-averse for the office he was running for. What seems obvious now was but a minority opinion then. Yet all it took to form it was to look at the candidates' records.

Now the same approach is telling me that Romney's public image falls short of his merits. I am not a Republican by a long shot. But based on Romney's record as governor, and on his book No Apology, I find myself unmotivated to agitate against Romney. Indeed, I'm nearly indifferent between him and the feckless Obama.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Sep, 2011 11:02 am
@Thomas,
Quote:
Indeed, I'm nearly indifferent between him and the feckless Obama.


That's fine with me. The good thing for Obama's chances is that the vast majority of Democrats are not indifferent; and the Republican party seems to hate Mitt more and more the more Conservative they get. I can't see Conservatives falling over themselves to work to get Romney elected, the way they might for a more Conservative candidate.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  0  
Reply Fri 23 Sep, 2011 11:32 am
@Thomas,
Thomas wrote:

Obama, while thoughtful and intelligent, seemed too indecisive and conflict-averse for the office he was running for. What seems obvious now was but a minority opinion then. Yet all it took to form it was to look at the candidates' records.
In a world of tortured rationalizations this is a potential prize-winner.

Thomas wrote:

I am not a Republican by a long shot. But based on Romney's record as governor, and on his book No Apology, I find myself unmotivated to agitate against Romney. Indeed, I'm nearly indifferent between him and the feckless Obama.


A point of agreement. We both find Obama to be feckless, and in my view, chronically unable or unwilling to rise above political gamesmanship.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Sep, 2011 02:33 pm
@Thomas,
Thomas wrote:

What seems obvious now was but a minority opinion then. Yet all it took to form it was to look at the candidates' records.


Before the 2008 election, there were quite a few people pointing out to voters what was obvious about Obama. Whether or not the Democrats were capable of taking a closer look and possibly changing their mind, they were never going to be induced to do so by people they considered to be their enemies.

And for those who ended up voting for Obama despite recognizing he lacked true qualifications to be president, I will, charitably, assume that their hope and excitement overruled their good sense.

I guess it didn't hurt that whenever they voiced their concerns many of them were attacked by the very people they considered to be their allies.

I'm not sure that what is now so obvious to you is equally obvious to those who fervently supported Obama in 2008 and since.

Sure, they think he should be tougher with Republicans and get more worked up about the Tea Party bogeymen, but feckless? I don't think so.

I have the same question about Romney that I have about anyone running for high office: What are the limits of what he will say or do in order to get elected? My concern is that the limits only kick in at the far reaches, but as you noted the same is the case for almost all politicians

I don't believe Romney is as committed to conservative principles as he would like us all to believe, but I don't think he's a liberal in sheep's clothing either.

Perry has enjoyed early popularity among conservatives because there was a perception that what you see is what you get, but they are only now discovering just how limited their sight may have been. I would still vote for him over Obama if they were the choices in an election held tomorrow, but I have been cautious about him since the outset and I now do not want to see him winning the nomination.

I want a chief executive in the White House; not an academic, a warrior, a nanny, a legislator, a poet or a messiah. I want someone who has leadership skills and who has practical experience with successfully solving real problems and getting real things done.

I don't want someone who can personally kick the ass of Vladimir Putin or school Nicolas Sarkozy on the intellectual roots of the French Enlightenment. I don't care if they are photogenic or particularly eloquent as long as they are competent. If they have a good sense of humor, that's a huge bonus, but not a deal breaker.

There was never any evidence that Obama might meet my expectations of a successful president, and he's turned out less capable than I feared.

I have concerns about each of the Republican candidates and none are clearly a perfect fit for the president I want to see in the White House, but I would vote for any of them (Including Ron Paul and Michelle Bachman) over Barack Obama. My primary concern about any of them is whether or not they can beat Barack Obama.

Right now it looks like Romney is the only one who clearly can, although I think Huntsman would have a good chance too...he'll just never win the nomination.


spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Sep, 2011 03:07 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
You take your politics very seriously Finn. I think they are all a bunch of wankers and I never vote. There's no need for me to do when there are folks like you around to make sure a nutter doesn't get in.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Sep, 2011 03:20 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
when there are folks like you around to make sure a nutter doesn't get in.


Finn was almost certainly one of the very people that the Mirror so accurately described back in the Fall of 2004; stone cold dummies that put a real nut case back in power.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  0  
Reply Fri 23 Sep, 2011 03:24 pm
@spendius,
By and large they are all a bunch of wankers, and it's rare when one of them actually performs well in office over the long run, but they have a big impact on our personal lives and I'll be damned if I don't take advantage of the chance voting gives me to get my say in.

I doubt that you and I will ever have the opportunity to vote in the same election, but I certainly encourage all my A2K friends on the Left to follow your lead.

I promise I will never let a nutter in.

JTT
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Sep, 2011 03:46 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
I promise I will never let a nutter in.


See how easily lying comes to Finn.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Sep, 2011 03:51 pm
Perry is definitely qualified to be the Repugs main man.

Quote:

Texas toast? Perry worries GOP

ORLANDO – The first line of Rick Perry’s campaign obituary may have been drafted Thursday night: He got in too late.
It’s not quite time for his camp to panic but in his third debate in a month – nearly as many as he’s done in the entire decade he’s served as Texas governor – Perry demonstrated why so few presidential candidates who parachute into the race mid-campaign win the nomination.
Perry gave a foreign policy answer that offered no indication he’s thought about how to respond to threats against America, twice bobbled attacks on Mitt Romney’s well-documented departures from conservative orthodoxy, called immigration hard-liners heartless and, in what was otherwise his best answer of the evening, stretched the truth in the course of delivering a well-rehearsed line about why he mandated pre-teen girls to be vaccinated against HPV.
A more seasoned candidate would be better informed on national security policy, fluent to the point of knowing by heart his chief opponent’s core vulnerabilities, and would never offend his party’s base with such a pointed attack. And a more sure-footed one would have recognized that he couldn’t get away with the claim that he issued an executive order on HPV after being “lobbied” by a cancer victim—because it has been publicly established that he met the victim only after he made the decision.
Instead, after a roaring August start, Perry’s second consecutive lackluster debate performance will reinforce the growing view among some Republicans that he’s not ready for the big leagues.
As conservative columnist Charles Krauthammer said on Fox News following the debate: “He’s still the rookie in the field.”
Equally threatening to the Texas governor, his stumbling appearances on national television have come as his on-the-fly campaign attempts to quickly build an organization and raise money ahead of the third-quarter deadline at the end of the month.
Grumbling has already begun about Perry’s operation and how they’ve not been prepared to handle the zero-to-frontrunner demands on the campaign.
One leading Republican said he’s given names of individuals – donors, former state party chairs — who want to be helpful to the campaign and that they’ve never gotten a phone call.
Recognizing the frustration, the National Committeewoman from Texas, Borah Van Dormolen, sent a blast email to fellow RNC members this week.
“I have received numerous calls requesting information on how to contact the Perry for President campaign team,” Van Dormolen wrote, including the email address for where to send the governor an invitation to appear at an event and the address of his finance director for those who want to help him raise money.
The upside of these growing pains, of course, is they reflect a campaign besieged with supporters. And, as Perry officials correctly note, it’s still early in the campaign—a contest that the governor only joined six weeks ago.
But it’s in part because he rocketed to the top of the field so quickly after getting in, creating such high expectations, that he’s now being damaged by sub-par debate showings.
In short, Perry’s command of the stage hasn’t matched his exalted status.

Texas toast? Perry worries GOP
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Fri 23 Sep, 2011 04:10 pm
Let's see what the Conservative media has to say about the debate:

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/special-editorial-yikes_594095.html

Quote:
Special Editorial: Yikes
9:22 AM, Sep 23, 2011 • By WILLIAM KRISTOL
Single Page Print Larger Text Smaller Text Alerts

Reading the reactions of thoughtful commentators after the stage emptied, talking with conservative policy types and GOP political operatives later last evening and this morning, we know we’re not alone. Most won’t express publicly just how horrified—or at least how demoralized—they are. After all, they still want to beat Obama—as do we. And they want to get along with the possible nominee and the other candidates and their supporters. They don’t want to rock the boat too much. But maybe the GOP presidential boat needs rocking.

The e-mails flooding into our inbox during the evening were less guarded. Early on, we received this missive from a bright young conservative: “I'm watching my first GOP debate...and WE SOUND LIKE CRAZY PEOPLE!!!!” As the evening went on, the craziness receded, and the demoralized comments we received stressed the mediocrity of the field rather than its wackiness. As one more experienced, and therefore more jaded, observer wrote: “I just thought maybe it’s always this bad...they’re only marginally worse than McCain and Bush.”

Now there are some legitimate excuses. With nine candidates on the stage, and answers restricted to one minute, it’s hard to really show your stuff. And two of the candidates—Rick Santorum and Mitt Romney—did provide respectable performances. But no front-runner in a presidential field has ever, we imagine, had as weak a showing as Rick Perry. It was close to a disqualifying two hours for him. And Mitt Romney remains, when all is said and done, a technocratic management consultant whose one term as governor produced Romneycare. He could rise to the occasion as president. Or not.

But in a week in which markets collapsed, Solyndra exploded, our Middle East policy was in meltdown, the Iranian nuclear threat became more urgent, and the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff fingered our “ally” Pakistan as a sponsor of terror against American forces in Afghanistan—none of the candidates really seemed up to the moment, either politically or substantively. In the midst of a crisis, we’re getting politics as usual—and a somewhat subpar version of politics as usual at that.

We suppose it’s often that way. The 1932 contest for the Democratic nomination was nothing special, and in 1980 Reagan had all kinds of problems convincing the electorate he was the man for the moment. Perhaps Mitt Romney will show the intellectual boldness and political leadership as president that the situation demands.

But, we do ask (again!), with a month left before filing deadlines: Is that all there is?

Watching this week as Mitch Daniels intelligently promoted his book and Paul Ryan cogently explained why crony capitalism is inconsistent with the rule of law, we of course lamented that neither of them had stepped up to the challenge. Jeb Bush apparently isn’t getting in. That would seem to leave Chris Christie.

He is, in every sense, a big man for a big job.

And it really is a big job. The presidency always is, of course. But in 2013, with the magnitude and urgency of the problems we face, don’t we deserve someone with a bigger sense of the task ahead, and a deeper sense of the solutions needed, combined with a proven record of bold governance, than the current field provides?

A third e-mailer Thursday evening, watching the debate, was reminded of Yeats’s “The Second Coming:”

The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

There’s some truth to that. But I can’t help wondering if, in the same poem, Yeats didn’t suggest the remedy:

And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?

Sounds like Chris Christie.


Cycloptichorn
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Sep, 2011 04:15 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Quote:
the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff fingered our “ally” Pakistan as a sponsor of terror against American forces in Afghanistan


Now isn't that the most ridiculous thing you could ever imagine. Let me get what he's suggesting. Terror is/was being put on the very terrorists that invaded the sovereign nation of Afghanistan.

Does he expect someone to cry him a river or what?
spendius
 
  2  
Reply Fri 23 Sep, 2011 05:15 pm
@JTT,
It is a bit ridiculous I agree. I put it down to getting all their own way in the playpen formatives.
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  3  
Reply Fri 23 Sep, 2011 05:32 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
I think you're discounting the Palin effect on obama's win.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  0  
Reply Fri 23 Sep, 2011 06:06 pm
@JPB,
I may be, but I don't know what the "Palin effect" was?
Rockhead
 
  2  
Reply Fri 23 Sep, 2011 06:09 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
you don't think that Miz Palin being added to the ticket pushed the election toward Obama?
izzythepush
 
  3  
Reply Fri 23 Sep, 2011 06:24 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:

I promise I will never let a nutter in.


Quote:
I have concerns about each of the Republican candidates and none are clearly a perfect fit for the president I want to see in the White House, but I would vote for any of them (Including Ron Paul and Michelle Bachman) over Barack Obama.


You don't see any contradiction in these two statements? Hint; I'm not talking about Ron Paul.
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Sep, 2011 06:57 pm
@JPB,
I'm not buying into that. I think McCain looked into the future, and saw it was hopeless, so he grabbed Palin on the off chance she would help the ticket, and certainly couldn't make things worse.

On the other hand, it's possible all he knew about her was that she was a female, Republican governor.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Sep, 2011 06:59 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Agreed. (My mother was a Taft and Kefauver fan)
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Sep, 2011 07:04 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Didn't see the debate.
I only read about Johnson with any attention afterwards. He got 4 questions, gave a funny answer on the last one, seems to have attracted some press attention. Somewhere (HuffPo?) I saw a headline that he might have taken the line from Limbaugh. But I didn't read the article. Elsewhere (I forget, some site I'm not familiar with) a reporter interviewed him and he gave some sane sounding answers with no garbling of syntax - which apparently he had in one other interview earlier in the year. From the sharpness of his answers, I might discount that he took the joke from Limbaugh. One article listed winners and losers - Romney, Santorum, Kain (don't trust me on this) in the winner list, and Perry, Bachmann, Huntsman, etc., in the 'loser' list.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  0  
Reply Fri 23 Sep, 2011 07:22 pm
@Rockhead,
Rockhead wrote:

you don't think that Miz Palin being added to the ticket pushed the election toward Obama?


I don't know if this is what JPB meant by "the Palin effect," but no I don't; certainly not in any significant way.

I've no doubt that there were a lot of people who saw John McCain's age and health record and shivered when he picked Palin, but I don't think they were planning on voting for him no matter who he selected as a running mate.

I suppose there were some people who might have voted for McCain if he picked someone else, but not enough to have cost him the election.

Keep in mind that Palin energized a lot of conservative voters who might not have voted at all if McCain had not picked her. I don't know if anyone has estimate how many they have been but I'm pretty certain they, at least, offset anyone who fled from McCain because of her.

The most significant reason, other than his perceived personal qualifications, for McCain losing was the economy tanking. I think he would have lost anyway but once the financial fit hit the shan he had no chance.
 

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