68
   

The Republican Nomination For President: The Race For The Race For The White House

 
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Sep, 2011 01:55 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
So now Patti Reagan is the moral compass of your life?


Keeping in mind the person you have shown yourself to be, your recommendation would probably be her father, Ronald Reagan, the well known butcher of Nicaragua.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Sep, 2011 02:10 pm
@JPB,
JPB wrote:

Perry is starting to notice that the TP fanatics are just that. He should watch whose banner he wants to fly.


Well, I agree with you that if the 7 or 8 idiots who cheered the death of the hypothetical man without insurance have a banner, he shouldn't fly it.

Are we judging groups by their most extreme members or only conservative ones?
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Sep, 2011 02:13 pm
Following up on a story from yesterday in which AZ said it would defy the RNC's rules and move its primary to Feb 28th, 2012. SC, which has its primary on that same day, indicated today that they will move to Feb 21st. That would cause the other early states to move up.
FL is looking at Jan 31st. We could end up with the Iowa caucus being around Jan 7th. That is a mere 4 months from now.
Who does that help/hurt in the Repub field?
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Sep, 2011 02:14 pm
@izzythepush,
Well, according to this you're wrong on two levels

http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/38156/us_britain_and_canada_endorse_death_penalty/
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Sep, 2011 02:20 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
That encompasses exactly what is wrong with pursuing a populist agenda.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Sep, 2011 02:24 pm
@izzythepush,
Perhaps, but you were quite prepared to criticize Texas on the basis of what you wrongly believed was the popular sentiment about captial punishment in "the rest of" America and "the rest of" the World.

Can't have it both ways izzy.
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Tue 13 Sep, 2011 02:38 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Birmingham 6, Guilford 4. Terrible miscarriages of justice, resulting in innocent men being banged up for years. At least we didn't kill them. It's one thing to have the death penalty, it's another thing to relish it.
JTT
 
  2  
Reply Tue 13 Sep, 2011 02:47 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
Illinois Governor Suspends Executions Until Capital Punishment Procedures Thoroughly Investigated

Feb 28, 2000

Recently, Illinois has seen more of its death sentences overturned than it has carried out, so Gov. George Ryan plans to block executions altogether pending a special investigation, the Chicago Tribune reported.

The decision would make Illinois the first state to stop executions while it reviews its death penalty procedures, the newspaper reported.

"You have a system right now ... that's fraught with error and has innumerable opportunities for innocent people to be executed," Ryan spokesman Dennis Culloton told the Tribune. The governor "is determined not to make that mistake."

Ryan still supports the death penalty, but Illinois has "a problem that's too big for case-by-case review," Culloton said. "It's clear the system is broken."

Ryan will create a special panel to study the state's capital punishment system in general and determine what happened in the 13 cases in which men were wrongly convicted since Illinois reinstated the death penalty in 1977. Twelve people have been executed since then.

One wrongly convicted inmate, Anthony Porter, spent 15 years on death row and came within two days of being executed before a college class proved his innocence. Porter was released last year.

Of the 38 death penalty states, only Nebraska has taken a similar step. But after the state legislature passed a moratorium last year, the governor vetoed it.

The Illinois House approved a bill to impose a moratorium last year, but it failed in the Republican-controlled Senate.

Groups that have campaigned against the death penalty said they considered the governor's announcement a leap in garnering wider acceptance of moratoriums on capital punishment and predicted that Ryan's commission of inquiry would aid in focusing the nation's attention on whether or not the death penalty is being imposed fairly.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1355/is_12_97/ai_60041433/


JTT
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Sep, 2011 02:48 pm
@JTT,
Quote:


...

"If the state of Illinois had its way, I would be dead today," says Darby Tillis, a one-time death row inmate. So would 12 others. But Illinois isn't the only state that has almost made a fatal mistake.

Florida has freed 18 condemned men and woman. Texas and Oklahoma 7 each, Georgia 6. Nationwide, 86 people have walked free.

"It's a national problem. I think that Illinois is getting so much attention because of the effort of journalists, college students and other people outside the system who have brought these cases to public attention." says Northwestern University professor David Protess. He supervised a team of volunteer investigators and student sleuths whose efforts freed Anthony Porter. But he wonders: If 86 mistakes were caught, how many others have gone unnoticed?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2000/01/31/national/main155090.shtml

0 Replies
 
Rockhead
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Sep, 2011 02:50 pm
@JTT,
but JTT, they were still criminals. and likely to wind up on welfare.

so what's the big deal...?
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Sep, 2011 03:00 pm
@Rockhead,
Quote:
so what's the big deal...?


My biggest complaint is that they were kept on death row so long. Have you any idea of what that must have cost the taxpayers? Had they been executed right after sentencing, we could have built a park or maybe a couple of highway overpasses.

Whiny liberals probably caused their extended stays on death row.
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  2  
Reply Tue 13 Sep, 2011 03:04 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
I wouldn't say that they represent the extreme of what the Tea Party (vs the earlier tea party movement) has become. I'd say they represent the average TP banner carrier. I, too, once supported the original cause of the tea party movement. Unfortunately, that cause has been usurped by an extremist element that has pushed all but the far Christian Right out. So, yes, I see the TP as the far Christian Right faction of the Republican Party, even though there are many independents and moderates who endorsed their earlier message.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Sep, 2011 03:41 pm
@izzythepush,
Now you're just ducking what you thought was your own point.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Sep, 2011 03:53 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
No I'm not, you muddied the water by throwing in populist opinion. A lot of people over here may be in favour of the death penalty, but not so much that they'd get off their arses and do anything. When people hear about the sort of things that happen in countries with the death penalty they're even less inclined to get off their arses.

My original point was that Texas executes significantly more people per capita than other states. Do you dispute that?
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Sep, 2011 04:00 pm
@JPB,
We clearly disagree
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Sep, 2011 04:01 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
I feel another bet coming on.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Sep, 2011 04:02 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:

I feel another bet coming on.


Oh, I think not. It seems like that would be the best way for me to Jinx it.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Sep, 2011 04:18 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

No I'm not, you muddied the water by throwing in populist opinion. A lot of people over here may be in favour of the death penalty, but not so much that they'd get off their arses and do anything. When people hear about the sort of things that happen in countries with the death penalty they're even less inclined to get off their arses.

My original point was that Texas executes significantly more people per capita than other states. Do you dispute that?


Here is what you originally wrote:

Quote:
If I get it right Texas stance on public execution is way out of kilter with the rest of America, lket alone the rest of the world.


Maybe you meant't to but you didn't write that the frequency of public executions was out of kilter, you wrote that the stance was.

Stance means postition or attitude; mental posture.

Clearly the polling I cited doesn't reflect that Texans or even Americans are way off base from Canadians and Brits in terms of their stance on the topic. That it didn't focus only on a select group such as a sample of enlightened liberal tenderhearts is generally an anticipated requirement for the accurate polling of broadly held opinions.

I can only respond to what your write izzy, not what you think you wrote.

BTW - Yes, Texas leads the nation in executions and we don't have to resort to per capita calculations.

izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Tue 13 Sep, 2011 04:34 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
I was forgetting how much you like to split hairs. I would suggest the stance was different though. Support for the death penalty is abstract, people's opinion changes when they look at real miscarriages of justice. Then there are those who don't give a **** about the miscarriages.
0 Replies
 
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Sep, 2011 04:35 pm
Finn: Thank you for your commentary on the debate last night. My hope when I (a liberal Dem and political junkie) started this thread at the beginning of the year was to hear reporting about what was going on within the party0p;
0 Replies
 
 

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