The Fallacy of the War on Terror

So your indigeastion is what is making you come up with stupid ideas?

I would appreciate it if you would address the questions I have asked you.

The palestinians run the gamut from Arab Nationalist (PLO, PFLP) to Religious( IJ, Hamas, Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade, etc...).

PLEASE post exapmles of this, because everything that has been found has been reported to haev been well and truly debunked. Is this merely wishful thinking on your part, or have you actually found a valid source that will support this assertion?

I don't expect much from Libya. is especially don't expect Qa'daffi to trun into a liberal democrat anytime soon.

Do you truly fail to understand that violence only begets violence? The Palestinians can claim the exact statement to apply to themselves.

Eh? What violent reaction?

You are aware that the US military still maintains a large presence in both nations, aren't you? This invalidates your comment: " the USA will be out of there just like the USA vacated Japan and Germany after their occupations."

In addition, the US has shown no indication, over the years, of being wiling to tolerate unfriendly governments in areas it considers to be of strategic interest. consider our willingness to overthrow democrally elected leaders in Iraq, Iran,Hunduras, Chile, etc.. and replace them with totalitarian regimes.

Quote:

Extending your philosophy, the answer would seem to be: kill everyone who isn't an American. hardly a workable solution.
No The answer is kill everyone who is killing or threatening to kill innocent human beings.

And this is different how?

And if our pre-emption had failed, as it has in Iraq, what would this have solved?

waht happened in 2000?

So you would advocate a solution that seems to lead to worse violence in the future? I rarely come out and say this, but what a stupid thing to advocate.!

Or right wing fundy Christian, or Republican pery, or Democartic party, or corporate executive, etc.....I guess they are in good company. BTW, do you see the similarity in this statement and your advocating a solution that would lead to greater conflict in future in exchange for "20 years" of peace?

I still don't understand what you are trying to say.

Yet, do you understand how your solution listed above would lead to the exact opposite of this?

Again, someone has watched too many Steven Seagal movies!

In reading back through the thread, I see the major reason for the difference of opinion between rocket-doggy and myself is that he advocates solutions based on violence, and seems to interperet "prevention" as "kill them before they can kill you." For those of us who reject this narrow (and incorrect) definition of prevention, what steds might the international community be able to take in developing nations to improve access to clean water, health care, education, etc..?

The palestinians run the gamut from Arab Nationalist (PLO, PFLP) to Religious( IJ, Hamas, Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade, etc...)
Yes, but the Moslem suicidal jihadists are included and were financed by Saddam also.

PLEASE post exapmles of this, because everything that has been found has been reported to haev been well and truly debunked. Is this merely wishful thinking on your part, or have you actually found a valid source that will support this assertion?


I'll give you my recent references tomorrow night after I check them for subsequent debunking.

I don't expect much from Libya. is especially don't expect Qa'daffi to trun into a liberal democrat anytime soon.
I don't expect that he will do any more than stop trying to make weapons of mass murder.

Do you truly fail to understand that violence only begets violence? The Palestinians can claim the exact statement to apply to themselves. e]

Yes I truly fail to understand that! It is simply not always true. As I have shown, human history bears me out. Do you truly not understand that

Eh? What violent reaction?
Are the incendiary bombing of Dresden Germany to ashes, and the atomic bomb destructions of Hiroshima and Nagasaki violent enough for you.

You are aware that the US military still maintains a large presence in both nations, aren't you? This invalidates your comment: " the USA will be out of there just like the USA vacated Japan and Germany after their occupations."
Those troops now in Germany and Japan are there by invitation and profit to Japan and Germany. The US has been looking for ways to remove them without upsetting their hosts.

In addition, the US has shown no indication, over the years, of being wiling to tolerate unfriendly governments in areas it considers to be of strategic interest. consider our willingness to overthrow democrally elected leaders in Iraq, Iran,Hunduras, Chile, etc.. and replace them with totalitarian regimes.
Iraq, yes! But the rest is fiction. Iran was over thrown by Mullahs. The US didn't overthrow Iran or any of the others. Therir own people did the deed.

Extending your philosophy, the answer would seem to be: kill everyone who isn't an American. hardly a workable solution.
No The answer is kill everyone who is killing or threatening to kill innocent human beings.And this is different how?
Oh, you really think that the only innocent human beings are americans? Naaaaa. You're just being silly.

And if our pre-emption had failed, as it has in Iraq, what would this have solved?
That too is silly

waht happened in 2000?

Correction: 2001!

So you would advocate a solution that seems to lead to worse violence in the future? I rarely come out and say this, but what a stupid thing to advocate.!
No, not worse violence just repeated violence with 20 year peaceful intervals. My long term solution has already been presented here. What's your long term solution?

Or right wing fundy Christian, or Republican party, or Democartic party, or corporate executive, etc.....I guess they are in good company. BTW, do you see the similarity in this statement and your advocating a solution that would lead to greater conflict in future in exchange for "20 years" of peace?
Again not greater just repeated about every 20 years. It's the short term solution I advocate while persuing the long term one I recommended. Your thus far absence of any solution whatsoever, is clearly worse.

I still don't understand what you are trying to say. Pernicious coveting, pernicious envy, pernicious jealousy is the problem not pre-emptive strikes in self-defense. Until that problem is solved, we're stuck with repetitive short term solutions.

Yet, do you understand how your solution listed above would lead to the exact opposite of this?
Do you understand that I have proposed two solutions: one short term and almost cyclic, and one one long term that would be permanent? Do you understand that the long term solution will take considerable time and effort. Consequently, we need the short term solution to survive long enough to realize the long term solution. What's your solution, short or long term?

Again, someone has watched too many Steven Seagal movies!
Wrong again. I watched nary a one.

Perhaps I've watched Gary Cooper in "High Noon" too much! Or maybe, not enough! Then again the cause could be my watching Clark Gable in "Gone with the Wind", a time or two too many! But maybe that's not it. Maybe it's that Patrick Henry speech: something about "give me liberty or give me death." No, maybe I've flown at altitudes more than 41,000 feet and observed the true curvature of the earth too much. Nope, now I've got it! It's that damn Thomas Paine, 1792: "It is only by setting out on just principles that men are trained to be just to each other; and it will always be found, that when the rich protect the rights of the poor, the poor will protect the property of the rich. But the guarantee, to be effectual, must be parlimentarily reciprocal."

My long term solution remains preventive efforts, including control of disease, poverty and hunger.

Just a small quibble: Alexander III of Macedon was not Greek--

Do you truly fail to understand that violence only begets violence?

No, Phillip of Macedon conquered the Amphyctionic League, and then took out the Peloponnesus . . . seems that not just Britannica fell for incorrect information . . .

Setanta wrote:

No, Phillip of Macedon conquered the Amphyctionic League, and then took out the Peloponnesus . . . seems that not just Britannica fell for incorrect information . . .

All true! But do you really think the Peloponnesus is not also a part of Greece?

My long term solution remains preventive efforts, including control of disease, poverty and hunger.
That's not a solution to the problem of organized murder of innocents (i.e., terrorism). The Palestinian arabs have been and continue to be largely on arab and western welfare already. That has not caused a discontinuation of arab terrorism.

The jews are an excellent example. From the 1st to the...

...So finally in the 20th century, they decided to resort to self-defense and the killing of those who were killing them, while at the same time treating their peaceful fellow arab neighbors like themselves. Their hope was to discourage others from terrorizing them. That did not work. They have commenced building walls and adopting pre-emptive self defense in the hope that will work better. I bet things will improve markedly if and when they kill Arafat and his gang.

The long term solution for the jews is to change or destroy that part of arab culture that has adopted (for whatever reason) the well known Koran (Qu'ran) admonition to kill the infidels among them.