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The Fallacy of the War on Terror

 
 
pistoff
 
Reply Mon 15 Dec, 2003 04:27 pm
The Fallacy of the War on Terror

by Patrisia Gonzales and Roberto Rodriguez


Despite the trillions being spent worldwide to combat terrorism, there is no war on terrorism. This bears repeating: There is no "war on terror." We note this when as a society we think about the global AIDS epidemic (Dec. 1), the human rights situation worldwide (Dec. 10), and the rights of migrants (Dec. 18) during a rise once again in the anti-immigrant movement in this country. It's also a time when the world's major religions focus on peace and good will. If we were actually engaged in such a war, it would be clearly defined, with unambiguous objectives and parameters.

It would first necessarily target despotic governments that threaten humanity and use state terror to torture and systematically deprive their own.
And it wouldn't force allied nations to act against their own citizens' wishes. A country involved in such a war wouldn't permit the export of torture instruments , wouldn't sabotage international weapons treaties, nor blackmail nations to exempt it from the international war crimes tribunal. It wouldn't proliferate its own weapons of mass destruction, nor research the use of "mini-nuclear bombs." In actuality, President Bush is hurtling toward U.S.-worldwide economic and military domination. Hence, "You're either with us or against us." This dictum allows us and our "allies" to ruthlessly stamp out domestic opposition ... all in the name of combating terror. How many of these allies are undemocratic and notorious human rights violators.

The failure to define this war permits the president to place the nation in an unconstitutional permanent state of war (against any nation he so chooses, without congressional approval). Currently, the war on terror is as vague as the "war on drugs" -- and as "winnable." Ironically, in Afghanistan, where both these wars intersect, heroin production has skyrocketed since U.S. "liberation." The president can't declare a war against Islam (though his surrogates have) for fear of igniting a global religious war. He can't define the war as being against Arab extremists or even simply against (the catch-all) al-Qaida, because that would restrict him from places such as Colombia. This worldwide "war on terror" is oxymoronic because, as others have noted, it's a war against a method, not an enemy. Additionally, the 2002 "Bush doctrine" invites a pre-emptive permanent state of war where any opponent of U.S. policies can be designated an enemy. The question begs to be asked: If a people are being viciously repressed anywhere worldwide -- including at the ballot box -- what permissible method can be used to rebel?

To wage a successful war against terrorism and terrorists, a clear definition of what constitutes legitimate insurrection is also in order. Without it, there wouldn't even be a United States, and there can't be an end to the war on terrorism. Perhaps that's the president's objective. And what might constitute a U.S. enemy? Any nation that disagrees with U.S. goals (France, Germany and Russia)? Yet the administration's claim is that this war isn't directed at traditional nation-states (outside of Afghanistan, Iraq, North Korea, Iran, Syria, Libya, Venezuela, Cuba, etc.), but against terrorists and their supporters.

The ramifications of such an open-ended war are that anyone could be deemed a suspect or an "enemy combatant" and held secretly, without charges and legal representation (our post-9/11 U.S. reality). Don't we now also have special prisons (Guantanamo) and overseas prisoner transfers (for purposes of torture) outside of U.S. and international jurisprudence? Have we also not seen "special registration" of Arab-Muslim men? And aren't intelligence units once again spying on peace groups? This war encourages societies to consolidate power, defend the "homeland" (the Fatherland), govern from a place of secrecy, enact repressive "temporary" laws (USA Patriot Act I and II), and create "suspect" (including "no fly") lists.

It also encourages the militarization of nations and for them to copy the tactics of the U.S. and Israeli military (i.e., deceptions, pre-emptive war and military assassinations without trials and much "collateral damage"). It invites scapegoating (Clear Law for Criminal Alien Removal of 2003, HR 2671), and it encourages debates over who's a citizen (Roman Empire), who's loyal and patriotic (McCarthyism), and who's worthy of civil and human rights protections (a throwback to medieval debates over who is human). Most important, it diverts scarce resources from addressing the critical problems that actually confront humanity -- problems often cited to justify both terror and counterterror.
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 6,396 • Replies: 115
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john treanor
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Dec, 2003 10:19 am
yes i agree but whay to do?
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Dec, 2003 10:38 am
Who was it that was giving me a hard time about using NewsMax as a source? Will you now, in turn, discuss the validity of CommonDreams.com?
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Dec, 2003 10:46 am
I have to agree with McGentrix (and yes, it is painful) here. Commondreams and Newsmax are both suspect since both cater to a distinct and partisan mindset, and both have a habit of printing editorials based on questionalble data with equally questionable validity. Even "reprints" of editorials from other sites have sometimes undergone "surgery" when posted on the sites in question. And btw, thanks to McGentrix (ouch again) for pointing out the source, which Pist should have known to include. When one posts something here without a source, I tend to wonder if they fear that revealing the source would cast doubt on its validity. If that is the case, then why post it at all?
0 Replies
 
fluffhead237
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Dec, 2003 10:54 am
McGentrix wrote:
Who was it that was giving me a hard time about using NewsMax as a source? Will you now, in turn, discuss the validity of CommonDreams.com?


That's a good question, but what makes any media source valid? Number of copies in publication, traffic, reporters, ideology, bias?
0 Replies
 
pistoff
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Dec, 2003 05:12 pm
Sources
Does it really matter. Either one agrees with the views of an article in various degrees or not. As here. Most of us are anons. Who knows what level of knowledge or insight any of the posters have?
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Dec, 2003 05:20 pm
Re: Sources
pistoff wrote:
Does it really matter.

Yes, it does. The validity of one's source material reflects upon one's statements.

Quote:
Either one agrees with the views of an article in various degrees or not.

This is the sort of black or white, either or manichaenaism that the extremes of both sides are prone to. It should probably be avoided.

Quote:
As here. Most of us are anons. Who knows what level of knowledge or insight any of the posters have?

The amount of knowledge and insight in such a forum is demonstrated in many ways, mostly by the quality of one's rthetoric. Another indicator of one's ability to think and read critically is the choice of sources one uses. I personally tend to discount the opinions of those who post from primarily partisan sources (i.e. Newsmax, Fox, Commondreams,SWP News, etc...). I don't know about the others, but I have a feeling they have similar criteria.
0 Replies
 
pistoff
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Dec, 2003 06:50 pm
Are there really un-biased sources?
I tend to feel that most sources have a degree of bias toward most topics. Facts can be slanted with words or ommsions of words. I do read various sources to gain a wider perspective but yeah I tend to read leftist sources more than others.
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Dec, 2003 06:54 pm
Quote:
Facts can be slanted with words or ommsions of words.

This is the reason Newsmax and Commondreams are poor sources. They have frequently "edited" re-prints from mainstream news sources, and are know for manufacturing quotes in their own editorials. McGentrix Newsmax article elsewhere attributed a quote to Hillary clinton that was false. I tend to discount the opinions of those who post frequently from both sources. I tend to completely distrust the opinions of those who fail to provide any source for their posts, regadless of their individual political orientation.
0 Replies
 
pistoff
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Dec, 2003 08:37 pm
Recommendations?
I will follow them up.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Dec, 2003 12:43 pm
FACTS
1. Some people in the world who know each other are murdering other people in the world they don't know by blowing up themselves and others they don't know, or by blowing up only others they don't know.
2. These murderers claim that what they do is just either because god told them so, or because a powerful human told them so, or because they hate those they murder.

HOW CAN WE STOP THESE MURDERERS?
1. Pay 'em to stop.
2. Pay other others to stop 'em.
3. Attempt to understand their grievances.
4. Attempt to do whatever is necessary and sufficient to end their grievances.
5. Kill 'em before they murder or aid or abet more murders.
6. Call these murders the natural consequences of legitimate insurrection.
7. Ignore them as long as they do not murder you.
8. Blame these murders on the people who are attempting to stop these murders for not stopping these murders your way.
9. Announce that all that were murdered deserved to be murdered.
10. Die.
0 Replies
 
pistoff
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Dec, 2003 05:40 pm
Possible.
3. Attempt to understand their grievances.
4. Attempt to do whatever is necessary and sufficient to end their grievances.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Dec, 2003 06:07 pm
Re: Possible.
pistoff wrote:
3. Attempt to understand their grievances.
4. Attempt to do whatever is necessary and sufficient to end their grievances.


QUESTIONS
1. Shall the attempt to understand their grievances be time or murders limited, or shall this attempt continue indefinitely or until understanding is achieved, whichever is less?

2. Shall the attempt to understand whatever is necessary and sufficient be time or murders limited, or shall this attempt continue indefinitely or until understanding is achieved, whichever is less?

3. Shall the attempt to to do whatever is necessary and sufficient be time or murders limited, or shall this attempt continue indefinitely or until this doing is achieved, whichever is less?

SUPPOSE
It is learned that abandonment by America of the middle east in general and the Israelies in particular will probably be necessary and sufficient to stop the murders of Americans.

Shall we do exactly that?
0 Replies
 
pistoff
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Dec, 2003 06:32 pm
What shall the USA do?
Just about what the Govt. is doing now.
0 Replies
 
Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Dec, 2003 06:36 pm
pistoff,

You frequently put some of your comment in the title. I just wanted to let you know that people rarely read them (because almost nobody uses it).

Just a heads up, as I had a hard time understanding you till I saw the post titles (since you usually start there and continue in the body of the post). Maybe others are having the same difficulty.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Dec, 2003 06:56 pm
Re: What shall the USA do?
pistoff wrote:
Just about what the Govt. is doing now.


Do you actually mean by this statement that you believe the US Gov't is abandoning the middle east in general and the Israelies in particular?
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Dec, 2003 12:27 pm
Re: Possible.
ican711nm wrote:
SUPPOSE
It is learned that abandonment by America of the middle east in general and the Israelies in particular will probably be necessary and sufficient to stop the murders of Americans.

Shall we do exactly that?


I'll answer my own question!

NO!

If the USA were to abandon the middle east in general and Israelies in particular, terrorist leadership would first direct all their terror against those in the middle east who dare to, seem to, or may resist their insatiable appetite for absolute power. Once the terrorists establish such power over the middle east, their new state will devolve into a Hitler-Stalin-Hussein-like society. Then they will inevitably attempt to expand their power to include absolute power over the entire human race.

"Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely!"

SO WHAT'S THE OBJECTIVE?
Eradicate terrorists, terrorist aiders, and terrorist abettors whenever and whereever they can be found.

HOW?
1. Kill 'em.
2. Secure liberty for non-terrorists and otherwise-would-be terrorists in the middle east so that they all can more probably live long, healthfully, honorably, and prosperously.

QUESTION
Who are the folks who can more competently lead the accomplishment of these tasks?
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Dec, 2003 12:40 pm
Re: Possible.
ican711nm wrote:
ican711nm wrote:
SUPPOSE
It is learned that abandonment by America of the middle east in general and the Israelies in particular will probably be necessary and sufficient to stop the murders of Americans.

Shall we do exactly that?


I'll answer my own question!

NO!

If the USA were to abandon the middle east in general and Israelies in particular, terrorist leadership would first direct all their terror against those in the middle east who dare to, seem to, or may resist their insatiable appetite for absolute power.

Who's appetite for insatiable power?



Quote:
Once the terrorists establish such power over the middle east, their new state will devolve into a Hitler-Stalin-Hussein-like society. Then they will inevitably attempt to expand their power to include absolute power over the entire human race.

Given the varieties of factors motivatiing terrorist activities (Sunni Islam, Shia Islam, Arab nationalism, Marxist Revolution, Zionist ideology, etc...) I doubt they would co-operate long enough to ordera pizza, to say nothing of developing a new state.

Quote:
"Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely!"

Seee: Administration, Bush, George W.

Quote:
SO WHAT'S THE OBJECTIVE?
Eradicate terrorists, terrorist aiders, and terrorist abettors whenever and whereever they can be found.

You are still avoiding the obvious questions: Who are terrorists,a nd who makes this distinction?

Quote:
HOW?
1. Kill 'em.

And do you really doubt this will engender more hate and terror?

Quote:
2. Secure liberty for non-terrorists and otherwise-would-be terrorists in the middle east so that they all can more probably live long, healthfully, honorably, and prosperously.

What if this implies recognizing a government hostile to the US? Would you still agree?

Quote:
QUESTION
Who are the folks who can more competently lead the accomplishment of these tasks?

Good question.
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Dec, 2003 01:07 pm
The fallacy of the War on Terror is that it will never end.

We will never be able to "eradicate", "destroy", or "eliminate" every last terrorist.

Never.

Let me repeat that, in case it's unclear: It is never going to end.

Like the war on Poverty, and the War on Drugs, eventually our administration will get bored and move on to something else, probably starting another war on another inanimate object (or God forbid, another nation).
0 Replies
 
pistoff
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Dec, 2003 03:36 pm
A fallacy.
It has been stated many times that the USA does not bargain with terrorist. That is false. Now I guess that I will be required to prove that?

When I run across the proof I will post the instances. In the meantime, I wish to convey a concept that I tried to convey in another thread. How does a country minimize attacks upon itself from terrorists, sans the policy of attempting to assasinate everyone in that org., specifically Al Q.

I propose negotiation. I believe it is possible, perhaps not probable, yet a lot more profitable as regards human life and money. It has occured in history that, one time enemies have become allies, friends or at the very least, not activley hostile. The reverse has occured, as well.
0 Replies
 
 

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