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Saddam is captured.

 
 
roger
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Dec, 2003 05:36 pm
I think you're wrong this time, cav. The capture would have been hard to hide had it happened earlier, to say nothing of staging it later. So far as picking a good time, anywhen since April would have worked real well.
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IronLionZion
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Dec, 2003 05:36 pm
PDiddie wrote:
I hope it means that the fighting comes to an end, that our soldiers can come home, and that Iraq can be turned over to her people very soon.


Am I missing something here?

What in Allahs name would lead anybody to think that Hussiens capture will have any noticible effect on the insurgency. Hussien was never an important part of the resistance. The Iraqi's are fighting against what they percieve to be an unwarranted Western occupation. It has nothing to do with Saddam Hussien. I thought this would be abundantly clear by now.

The signifigance of Saddams capture is symbolic and psychological.

It seems that President Bush has recognized this. Instead of publicly celebrating his triumph he has played it very low key. Undoubtedly, this is because he wants to maintain the atmosphere that the Iraqi's have triumphed rather than turning it into an American triumph.

I can only hope that Bush does the right thing by turning Hussien over to the Iraqi's rather than the Hague. This is a valuble opportunity to improve relations and I hope he doesn't bungle it.
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Heywood
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Dec, 2003 05:40 pm
Will this capture prove to the Iraqis that Hussein will never return, and thus get them a little more to "our side" and quell some of the insurgency?


(I sure hope so)
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roger
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Dec, 2003 05:40 pm
IronLionZion wrote:
I can only hope that Bush does the right thing by turning Hussien over to the Iraqi's rather than the Hague.


Anything other than US courts would suit me. And none of this ambiguous status like Camp X-Ray.
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hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Dec, 2003 05:43 pm
roger wrote:
IronLionZion wrote:
I can only hope that Bush does the right thing by turning Hussien over to the Iraqi's rather than the Hague.


Anything other than US courts would suit me. And none of this ambiguous status like Camp X-Ray.

Once again, on the BBC an American official was suggesting this. Rolling Eyes
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IronLionZion
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Dec, 2003 05:44 pm
roger wrote:
Anything other than US courts would suit me.


I doubt it would please the Iraqi's though.

Also, it would further damage relations if the Americans were to cut some kind of deal with Hussien in exchange for intelligence. I doubt it would happen, but it is certainly a possibility that cannot be discounted right away.
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roger
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Dec, 2003 05:44 pm
You're kidding, of course, hobit?
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cavfancier
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Dec, 2003 05:46 pm
I'm happy to be wrong there roger. It will take time for the final outcome to unfold.
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hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Dec, 2003 05:46 pm
No, not kidding. The person, who was a minor DOD person, said that Hussein has no status, and is similar to the "enemy combatants," therefore not entitled to a "trial." He did say that if tehre is a trial, it will be done by the IRC, translation, by the Americans. What did you expect?
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Dec, 2003 05:50 pm
hobit, I think it's still too early to jump to conclusions from the stories being broadcast over the airwaves. This is only the first day after capture, and many are going to speculate on every subject under the sun. Let's give it a few weeks and months for all this excitement to settle down. I'm sure the news media will keep us posted on what's happening.
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cavfancier
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Dec, 2003 05:51 pm
If it is indeed the real Sadaam, maybe they should pull a Mussolini and just release him to the Iraqis, provided he grows back that awesome caveman beard, and they show the lynching on pay-per-view. Then the boys could be paid, and come home. Hmm...America's war, America's rules. What are you gonna do?
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hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Dec, 2003 05:53 pm
You are always the voice of reason CI, have I mentioned how envious I am? Very Happy
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hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Dec, 2003 05:54 pm
Quote:
Hmm...America's war, America's rules. What are you gonna do?


That seems to be the current view. Mad Toronto, Montreal, Zurich,Prague, Budapest, or Wien here I come!
0 Replies
 
IronLionZion
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Dec, 2003 05:57 pm
roger wrote:
You're kidding, of course, hobit?


I noticed a few American politicians have been making vague allusions that he will be tried in America - without explicitly stating it, of course. Others have implied it will be in Hague. I think Tony Blaire (not 100% on this) implied earlier today that he would "have a chance to be judged by fellow Iraqis" or something to that effect. The Iraqi Governing Council, meanwhile, is already working on the assumption that he will stand trial in Iraq - anything different will come as upsetting news to them. After all, the Iraqis just established a court for war criminals last week.
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cavfancier
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Dec, 2003 05:57 pm
Yeah, it sucks all around there hobitbob. Very Happy 'Cept of course for America.
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IronLionZion
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Dec, 2003 06:02 pm
....ignore this. Or don't.
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ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Dec, 2003 06:04 pm
I agree with Cav's latest post, except I have no sense one way or the other about holding Saddam's finding back re the timing. I agree with Iron Zion too, although I am doubtful we (u.s.) would just let that happen without control. I am not any Saddam fan but I can understand iraqi people wanting us out of there. Adding to that, I want safecracker and every other american to be safe and well there. Further, I want the iraqis to be safe and well there. What is it I wanted in the first place? good question. I would have liked the people in iraq to have handled their own change of regime, and going back, maybe that we hadn't gotten involved with him in the first place, years ago.

I am not entirely an isolationist but I hate to see us consort with people/governments who don't rule wisely.
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hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Dec, 2003 06:06 pm
There is a Neo-Con named Keneth Edelman interviwed on the Beeb trying to do the "fox news...be obnoxious" thing with the reporter. He is basically implying that it is the US' game , beacuse we are the biggest kid on the sandbox,and that the BBC is a typical example of the lying liberal media. Rolling Eyes

BBC: WHat if no WMD are found?
Neocon (Kenneth Edelman): Who cares? Isn't it wonderful that American power was used to rid the world of a blah..blah...blah...Bush haters...etc...
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Dec, 2003 06:14 pm
From theArab News
Quote:
Elation, Shock and Skepticism Around Kingdom
Arab News Team



A photograph, presented on Sunday by the US Army at a news conference in Tikrit, shows the scene where troops captured ousted Iraqi President Saddam Hussein on Saturday. (Reuters)


The reaction to the news of Saddam Hussein's capture in the Kingdom was mixed.

In Jeddah, which he had threatened in 1991 ?- he famously said "The Bride of the Red Sea will be turned into the Old Hag of the Red Sea" ?- there was elation but also shock at seeing him examined live on TV.

"Though I was expecting to hear the news of his capture, I'm not sure how I feel," said Ghazal Amin, a student at Dar Al-Hekma college. "I'm very confused, but I think he deserves whatever happens to him. He brutally harmed his people. It's amazing how the world turns ?- I just wish his people had turned him in: it hurts that the US army captured him."

"I'm particularly happy that they didn't kill him. He should be brought to justice by his people in order for them do get a sense of closure," said Tamer Sa'ad, a law student at King Abdul Aziz University.

A lecturer at the university, Sahar Nasief, saw it differently. "Very sad. He's still a human being. True he was a savage, but seeing him examined like that on TV after all the power that he enjoyed is just sad to me. No one deserves such treatment."

Similar views came from others in Jeddah. Youssef Ahmed Al-Shamari,41 and unemployed, told Arab News: "When I saw the video of Saddam being physically examined, I felt a sense of sadness for him, because he now feels what many of his victim's families must have felt. Both his sons were killed, his money, his power and his prestige were taken away, and he is about to see a life that no one ever imagined."

Mounira Al-Saleh,32 , a school teacher, felt much the same way. "I never thought I'd see Saddam like that. He looked so harmless with that tongue depressor in his mouth."

Some felt a welter of conflicting emotions. A young Saudi of Iraqi origin said: "I feel sorry for him as a human being who is going to either be executed or imprisoned for life, but I don't feel sorry for him as a dictator. I am happy for the people of Iraq because now they can see some justice."

But from most there was little sympathy.

"The bigger they are, the harder they fall," said financial analyst Talal Abdullah,32 . "I'm elated at the news, it's the best thing to happen to the region in decades, I think his supporters can finally see him for what he is: a coward hiding in a hole."

Majed Al-Tawil, 32, a bank teller, said: "I was surprised that he didn't put up a fight. What about all the speeches he gave about letting the blood of Americans run in the street? I am a little disappointed that he just gave up. The words bully and coward come to mind."

Seif Miteb Al-Shalahi,21 , went further. "He could have surrendered before the war began and saved the lives of thousands of his people. He was a power-hungry, psychopathic tyrant that didn't care about his country nor its citizens."

"It's a great day," said Reem Hamed,38 . "A cancer has been removed forever."

Students at one college in Jeddah were so ecstatic that they disrupted classes and asked for the rest of the day off.

Some people felt this was an opportunity to discover the truth of US claims about Iraq. "His capture was the only option left, with everyone in America and Europe asking questions like ?'where are the weapons of mass destruction?' Since Saddam is now in their custody and supposedly cooperating, he should lead them to where everything is," Mashhour Al-Yusef, a political science graduate said.

Mohammed Qasim, a 35-year old businessmen, had a similar observation: "I think we are going to find out who really is carrying out the suicide attacks in Iraq, now that Saddam has been caught. We need to know if the coalition troops are dealing with Islamists, Iraqi nationalists, or just Saddam loyalists."

"It's good, but we should put it behind us. Saddam should be tried within the Iraqi judicial system," said architect Tarek Alireza.

RIYADH

A Saudi working for a private company here said that he first heard of Saddam's capture when a friend called him. "I didn't believe him at first and thought he was bluffing. I then went and turned on Al-Jazeera to see for myself."

And still he did not believe it. "It came from an Iranian source." But later when it also came from other sources, he was convinced. "I was very sad to hear the news," he said.

Mubarak, a Saudi in his early thirties, said he felt "relieved inside to hear the news that Saddam Hussein was captured." He went on, "It's unfortunate that Saddam Hussein was seen as a brave leader in the Arab world. People thought at some point he could do what no one else had done before. All the Arab world's hopes vanished into thin air when he foolishly invaded Kuwait.

"Yes, I think he was a tyrant and that he committed a lot of terrible crimes, but I wish he had been caught after the US elections. His capture is now an important element justifying the American and British invasion of Iraq. Saddam's capture is a definite victory for the Bush administration."

Abdul Aziz, a Saudi banker in his early thirties, said it was "about time (the Americans) caught him, with all the sophisticated intelligence they claim they have."

He remembers Tony Blair telling the British parliament "that it was the right thing to invade Iraq, saying that Saddam Hussein had killed his own people, had killed thousands of Muslims ?- but who supplied him with those weapons?"

He said the US had invaded Iraq for its own purposes.

DAMMAM

In the Eastern Province emotions ran high yesterday as news broke of Saddam Hussein's capture. The Gulf Bureau phones rang off the hook all afternoon with enquiries from readers if the news could possibly be true, with many saying they could not believe it was.

Though reports came through on the satellite channels in the afternoon, when many people were at work, the impact was evident in supermarkets, shopping centers, restaurants and tea shops in Dammam and Alkhobar.

Aqil, an Iraqi software engineer who had fled Iraq to the UK in1991 , said it was the best news he had received in years. "It seems hard to believe. For years he seemed an invincible icon who embodied ruthlessness, barbarism and despotism. But if the news is correct then it is absolute bliss. It is a Youm Al-Eid ?- a day of happiness and rejoicing ?- for all Iraqis," Aqil said. He wanted to see Saddam hang, he said. "I hope he isn't tried in the Hague. They'll just sentence him to prison. That would be too mild a punishment for his crimes," he said.

Another Iraqi who would only give his name as Ali and works for a local trading company said it was the end of an era. "This is the logical culmination of a despotic era. He and most of his henchmen have been arrested, his sons killed. Now Iraq will breathe freedom," he said.

But other local reactions were more mixed. A few Saudis privately expressed disappointment, saying the actual usurper of power in Iraq was America and its allies. But a majority of Saudis expressed satisfaction. "The resistance will now die down gradually. Business will return to normal and peace will eventually prevail," said Ali Al-Qahtani, a local construction businessman.

Many businessmen here hope that it will now be safer for them to do business with nearby Iraq, where lucrative reconstruction business is waiting for them. "The law and order situation is bound to improve now," said Sadoun, another Saudi businessman.

Most of the Saudis were unequivocal in their demands that the United States and its allies should quit Iraq now. "Their mission is completed, and it's now time for them to pack their bags and leave Iraq to the Iraqi people," Al-Qahtani said.

(Mohammed Alkhereiji, Essam Al-Ghalib and Sarah Shaban in Jeddah, Raid Qusti in Riyadh and Saeed Haider in Dammam)

0 Replies
 
IronLionZion
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Dec, 2003 06:18 pm
hobitbob wrote:
From theArab News


Great article.

Arab News is a great source to get the Arab perspective on an issue.

So is Middle East Quarterly, for more in depth analysis.
0 Replies
 
 

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