DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Nov, 2010 09:21 am
@Fido,
Well, I don't agree with all of that.

Certainly a large portion of Republican voters prefer to see issues in very simple terms. I suspect that the leaders of the party don't resort to simple ideology; I think they just sell their product through simple ideology.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Nov, 2010 05:23 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:

[The Cooperation isn't between the House Dems and the House Republicans, but instead between House Republicans and either Reid or Obama. The House Dems are far enough in the minority that their cooperation on issues isn't required, or even really a factor, in getting bills passed - the same way that cooperation from the Republicans wasn't required in the last Congress to get any of the bills in the House passed.


I agree with this. However, I find it hard to reconcile this statement with your many previous complaints about Republican opposition to Democrsat legislative proposals during the past two years in which the Democrats enjoyed commanding majorities in both Houses of Congress. It appears to me that you are defending Pelosi using arguments you dismissed when others used them to rationalize Republican opposition to Democrat legislative initiatives.

It is immaterial anyway in that I suggested that Pelosi should be replaced because she is a polarizing figure who , in my opinion, won't do the Administration any good under the current circumstances - and not because she was an ineffective leader of her caucus.

I also believe that we will soon see some level of argument among Democrats over precisely these issues.



Cycloptichorn
 
  3  
Reply Wed 10 Nov, 2010 05:27 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

[The Cooperation isn't between the House Dems and the House Republicans, but instead between House Republicans and either Reid or Obama. The House Dems are far enough in the minority that their cooperation on issues isn't required, or even really a factor, in getting bills passed - the same way that cooperation from the Republicans wasn't required in the last Congress to get any of the bills in the House passed.


I agree with this. However, I find it hard to reconcile this statement with your many previous complaints about Republican opposition to Democrsat legislative proposals during the past two years in which the Democrats enjoyed commanding majorities in both Houses of Congress. It appears to me that you are defending Pelosi using arguments you dismissed when others used them to rationalize Republican opposition to Democrat legislative initiatives.


As I said in the other thread, you'll find that Pelosi didn't resort to the same sort of childish procedural tricks that Republicans did, when she was in the minority. She influenced some legislation by arguing successfully against it and other times she got rolled by the Republican majority, because that's how things work when you are in the minority.

Quote:
It is immaterial anyway in that I suggested that Pelosi should be replaced because she is a polarizing figure who , in my opinion, won't do the Administration any good under the current circumstances - and not because she was an ineffective leader of her caucus.


Quote:
I also believe that we will soon see some level of argument among Democrats over precisely these issues.


I doubt it - she's already locked up the minority leader position.

What will be far more interesting to watch is the slow descent from Tea Party Heaven to reality, as their elected officials turn out to be just as corrupt as normal Republicans are. Watching you guys move the goalposts time and time again is going to definitely be fun. And it's already begun - even Tea Party stalwarts like Rand Paul are signaling that they are not even going to delay slightly in abandoning their former rhetoric, in favor of becoming power brokers.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Nov, 2010 12:44 pm
It looks like the first order of business for the Republicans will be to sort out earmarks. Teapartiers and a few others are against them, whereas many in the old guard love them. They say that pork spending adds only a pittance to the overall budget. I don't call 1/20 of the budget ($16.5 billion) chump change.

Quote:
Defenders of the earmarking practice point out that the total annual cost of pet projects represents a tiny percentage of the overall federal budget. The president’s 2010 budget totaled about $3.5 trillion. The sum of the last year’s earmarks — $16.5 billion — is less than one half of one percent of that total. Source


I'd love to see pork spending eliminated. I'd love to see a few more 0.5% budget items cut here and there. Why should we keep doing something that can save money because it's "only" 1/20 of the budget?

No More Pork!
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Thu 11 Nov, 2010 01:20 pm
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20022479-503544.html

Quote:
The 2010 midterm elections marked a historic loss for President Obama's Democratic party, and although the Republicans now control the House of Representatives, the public wants them to work with the president and compromise in order to get things done.

Americans' desire to see Republicans and Democrats put the bickering aside and get some work done extends across both parties, with a substantial 72 percent of those polled by CBS News saying the GOP members of Congress should make tradeoffs in order to get things accomplished
.


That includes 60% of polled Republicans.

Will the Republicans listen to their own base? To the 'message' the country is sending? I think we all know that the answer is no.

Cycloptichorn
revelette
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Nov, 2010 07:50 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Quote:
Will the Republicans listen to their own base? To the 'message' the country is sending? I think we all know that the answer is no.


That would be a pretty safe bet.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Nov, 2010 08:00 am
It puts the Republicans in a damned awkward position. To appeal to the supposed tea party grassroots movement, they have to be obstructionist and start a raft of idiotic investigations. In so doing, they would alienate most of the electorate. I doubt that RNC is fooled by the claim that the tea party represents the majority opinions of voters. It will be interesting to watch.
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Nov, 2010 08:19 am
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

It puts the Republicans in a damned awkward position. To appeal to the supposed tea party grassroots movement, they have to be obstructionist and start a raft of idiotic investigations. In so doing, they would alienate most of the electorate. I doubt that RNC is fooled by the claim that the tea party represents the majority opinions of voters. It will be interesting to watch.

If the tea partiers were all kids they would be wearing propeller hats and looking for a headwind... They were angry, and like all angry people they were easily manipulated... A lot of money was thrown their way, and it helped to by them victory, but no one should confuse victory with a program for progress, or anything approaching a real solution to the problem... They are ignorant, and it makes their victory, the victory they made possible seem all the more pitiful...They are flailing about like a drunk in the dark... They don't get it... They don't get why the government and they are both broke, and why so much money from rich folks financed them... Some one has the money, and some one owns this country and it is not us, and it is not the government... And two year from now we wont be any less bankrupt than we are at this moment....
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Thu 18 Nov, 2010 11:22 am
Quote:
THE SUDDENLY-UNPOPULAR APPROPRIATIONS COMMITTEE.... For years, members of the House, from both parties, desperately wanted to be assigned to the Appropriations Committee. And why not? It was the panel that allowed members to steer funds to their districts, which tended to make them pretty popular back home.

But as the 112th Congress takes shape, it appears no one's anxious to accept this once-plum committee assignment.

Quote:
A band of conservative rebels has taken over the House, vowing to slash spending, cut the deficit and kill earmarks.

And of course they'd love a seat on the powerhouse Appropriations Committee so they can translate their campaign zeal into action, right?

Not really.

Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-Minn.) was asked to be an appropriator and said thanks, but no thanks. Rep. Steve King (R-Iowa), a tea party favorite, turned down a shot at Appropriations, which controls all discretionary spending. So did conservatives like Lynn Westmoreland (R-Ga.) and Jim Jordan (R-Ohio), an ambitious newcomer who will lead the influential Republican Study Committee.


Rep. Jack Kingston (R-Ga.), who hopes to be the committee's chairman, noted, "Anybody who's a Republican right now, come June, is going to be accused of hating seniors, hating education, hating children, hating clean air and probably hating the military and farmers, too.... There's going to be a lot of tough votes. So some people may want to shy away from the committee. I understand it."

At Daily Kos, Susan Gardner added yesterday, "Yeah, be careful what you ask for. You get elected grandstanding about government overspending, you might actually have to ... you know, put your name to specifics on where to cut government spending. And no one wants to run two years down the line on killing popular programs -- and every program has some constituency that actually uses it, benefits from it, feels allegiance to it."

Quite right. It wasn't an accident that, throughout the campaign season, Republican candidates balked when asked to talk about what they intended to cut if given power. For all their bravado about how the "American people" just love cutting spending, and elected Republiacns to do just that, many GOP officials are well aware of the dirty little secret -- spending cuts can not only undermine economic growth, they also tend to be pretty unpopular.

Kingston's quote actually telegraphed where Republicans intend to go -- the GOP is looking to cut funding for schools, seniors, clean air, farmers, and the military.

The 30-second ads for 2012 will practically write themselves.
If I were a Republican lawmaker, beholden to an unhinged base, I'd probably want to avoid the Appropriations Committee, too.
—Steve Benen 8:40 AM


Cycloptichorn

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2010_11/026694.php
Fido
 
  2  
Reply Thu 18 Nov, 2010 11:52 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Hate is another name for the republican party... People do not vote for them out of love, but because they are brought to hate democrats... Now, let them see what their words means... If they will not tax those with the money to help all those who people with money have hurt, then they must deny to the many living off the dwindling commonwealth that the good of government is denied to them, and they are on their own.... Let them see their principals and ideals by their fruit...
0 Replies
 
revelette
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Dec, 2010 08:53 am
I am not so sure there will be that much of a difference between the new republicans who are coming in and the ones who have stayed in. Thursday house republicans blocked a bill preventing childhood marriages and Senate Republicans a bill for 9/11 first responder health care bills just because...who can answer?


House Republicans Block Child Marriage Prevention Act

Senate Republicans Explain Their Vote Against 9/11 First Responder Health Care

I guess the difference with the new republican congress will be that we won't have bills like that in the first place. Probably a repeat of the Clinton investigations, wasting millions on it, then talk about wasting government money.
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Dec, 2010 08:55 am
The right is cheering for another government shutdown. I wonder whether this, should it happen, finally expose the right as the reckless incompetents that they are.

http://mediamatters.org/research/201012170021?lid=1150102&rid=57476699
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  0  
Reply Sat 18 Dec, 2010 09:09 am


The Republicans and T.E.A. party members are doing a great job, they are a much needed
breath of fresh air because Obama and his democrats have really stunk up the place lately.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Dec, 2010 01:18 pm
The Jekyll and Hyde that is the US.
failures art
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Dec, 2010 02:09 pm
@JTT,
JTT wrote:

The Jekyll and Hyde that is the US.

That's rather forgiving of you JTT. I'd have expected the Monster of the USA to be Dorian Gray. Dr. Jekyll is a man haunted by his monstrous self, but one with a conscience. That conscience is something I've rarely seen you acknowledge about myself or my statesmen (perhaps your statesmen, or even our statesmen Wink ).

A
R
T
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Dec, 2010 02:12 pm
@failures art,
Quote:
I'd have expected the Monster of the USA to be Dorian Gray.


That's because you often make gigantic leaps to unwarranted notions, Art.
failures art
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Dec, 2010 02:16 pm
@JTT,
I'm being honest here. You choose a dynamic monster that represents internal struggle and conscious. Dorian is much more like you normally portray us: petulant, vain, violent, and without consciousness.

I'll accept Jekyll and Hyde. What is your monster?

A
R
T
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Sat 18 Dec, 2010 02:26 pm
@failures art,
Quote:
I'm being honest here.


That would be a refreshing change.

Quote:
without consciousness.


I've never stated that but if you say so. I think Finn and Gob1 are more than capable of writing the drivel they do in their sleep.
0 Replies
 
revelette
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Dec, 2010 01:09 pm
Two new rules

Quote:
They will read the Constitution aloud.

And then they will require that every new bill contain a statement by the legislator who wrote it citing the constitutional authority to enact the proposed law.


I am not denying the constitution is/was not a very good way to govern, but it written in the time when the only people who had a voice was white men. People might get carried away with all this stuff. Are they talking of only the original or all the amendments added after? Surely they will remember the second amendment if nothing else.



Fido
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Dec, 2010 12:13 am
@revelette,
revelette wrote:

Two new rules

Quote:
They will read the Constitution aloud.

And then they will require that every new bill contain a statement by the legislator who wrote it citing the constitutional authority to enact the proposed law.


I am not denying the constitution is/was not a very good way to govern, but it written in the time when the only people who had a voice was white men. People might get carried away with all this stuff. Are they talking of only the original or all the amendments added after? Surely they will remember the second amendment if nothing else.




There was no major river in America bridged, not much of industry and most people survived directly or indirectly on agriculture... Those people maintained, at least for a while the idea of one representative for ever 30K people and we have one rep for every 600K plus people... If you look at a single excuse for the failure of government it is that the parties have taken advantage of a loophole to limit the number of representatives to a far fewer number than those who wrote the constitution were allowed; meaning those people with so much less had a more direct representation per person than we can afford with so much more... How could they do and we cannot... How have we let the parties gerrymander districts so they are all deeply divided except for a few given away so they become rotton buroughs??? These people deny proportional representation by denying districts to the minority parties by a slim margin when it means people go without representation year after year, and they accept it when they should grab a gun and fight it... Majority rule is not democracy and party rule is not democracy; but this is a nation of losers because they cannot tell the difference between being ruled and being self governed... There is a reason their government worked for them and ours does not... We have been denied democracy by a number of parties for the benefit of the rich, but leading to our own failure and destruction...
0 Replies
 
 

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