Reply Wed 3 Nov, 2010 10:27 am
Congrats to the Republican party, who picked up over 60 seats in the House last night, and either 6 or 7 in the Senate, depending on how things shake out.

Since the Dems held on to the Senate (thanks Tea Party!), we have entered a period of divided leadership in Congress.

What do you think is going to happen? Will the Republicans try to defund health care? Will they shut the government down? Will they compromise on bills in order to get budgets passed?

The 2012 election is right around the corner as well. I figure we have 6 months before the players on the Republican side start showing themselves. How will this new House affect the election? Will Obama pivot towards more vocally attacking the Republicans? Will they use the power of the House majority to try and screw him up over the next two years, in hopes of getting him kicked out?

This thread is intended to be a general ongoing discussion of the new Congress and the way that this changes the political landscape. In the days to come I will post many articles discussing and analyzing the changes...

Cycloptichorn
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Type: Discussion • Score: 22 • Views: 20,428 • Replies: 437

 
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Nov, 2010 10:38 am
@Cycloptichorn,
i predict that, if nothing else, it won't be dull the next two years
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Nov, 2010 10:42 am
Matthew Yglesias predicts that this will lead to more 'big-picture' negotiation and less focus on individual members of the House or Senate:

http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/2010/11/final-results/

Quote:
Final Results

Obviously you can see the numbers elsewhere. But what happened is that Republicans did substantially better-than-expected in the House. The Douglas Hibbs projection forecast about a 45 seat pickup, the generic ballot polling forecast about a 55 seat pickup, and in reality they got a 65 seat pickup which I believe will create the largest House Republican caucus since the Great Depression. Given the vagaries of Southern politics, I’m pretty confident we’ve seen bigger conservative majorities in the past but the point is it’s a big win.

Conversely in the Senate the GOP has underperformed. Harry Reid survived in Nevada. Michael Bennet looks like he’ll probably hang on in Colorado. A likely Republican win in Delaware was turned into an easy win for Chris Coons.

Realistically, I think the House margin matters much more. If the GOP had pulled off a very small majority, the White House could hope to attempt to govern via negotiations with a small block of relatively moderate representatives. With a big majority, legislative negotiations need to run through John Boehner. And any Obama-Boehner deal that could pass a Senate with 53 Democrats could also pass a Senate with 51 Democrats or even 48 Democrats. For a bill to become a law under this configuration you’d need a really substantial level of cross-party agreement that’s a bit hard to imagine at the moment. But that means that the days of the 111th Congress when things would come down to intense negotiations with individual Senators are probably over. Deals will be big picture or else more likely the deals won’t be done.


Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  4  
Reply Wed 3 Nov, 2010 10:47 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Unfortunately, it means we'll have to look at John Boehner's mug even more than before. We'll hear about this "mandate" and that one, and we're hear mud slinging back and forth as usual. I'm skeptical that anything will change other than the faces. And, then, we'll start the 2012 cycle by Feb or March - making the entire thing moot.

Washington hasn't been about governing for a long time. It's about politics and posturing for the next election. I don't see that changing any time soon.
0 Replies
 
Fido
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 3 Nov, 2010 10:53 am
@Cycloptichorn,
I hope like hell that they manage to get their rubber wrenches lodged in the works so it never runs again... We could cut a better government out of football team... A chimp could write a better constitution for todays people and todays needs than anything people two hundred years dead could have done from that distance... The government we got from them was not improved upon, but was degraded by the parties which were not themselves an officially recognized part of government, and yet are, no less...
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  2  
Reply Wed 3 Nov, 2010 10:55 am
Quote:
Republicans now have control of the House and have chipped away at the Democrats’ majority in the Senate. What they likely won’t have control over is the badly broken housing market, persistently high unemployment and runaway government spending.

Politicians’ promises aside, solving those issues will take much more than just a change on the nameplates at congressional offices. And the gridlock in Washington is likely to make solving the nation’s economic problems even more difficult. Source


Emphasis added. If the "mandate" Boehner hears is to roll back health care then he doesn't have a clue. But, I predict that's exactly what he's going to focus on.
Fido
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 3 Nov, 2010 10:58 am
@djjd62,
djjd62 wrote:

i predict that, if nothing else, it won't be dull the next two years
Ya it will... Waiting for people to do stupid stuff is boreing beyond belief even when you know it is going to happen... Did you ever get a drunk ahead of you in traffic that is driving 50 in a 70 and taking up three lanes of a two lane road??? That is those bastards..

They think they are leaders and they are following money...We need a government, believe it or not, and they are not it... But waiting for the whole country to get sick enough to start over, or waiting for them to invoke destruction can put a speed freak to sleep...
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Nov, 2010 11:12 am
More questions here than detectable answers at this stage. Spending bills must originate in the House. I suspect that fact and the House oversight role will be the source of a large fraction of the political struggles of the coming two years.

It will be interesting to see what may come in the Democrat organization of the Senate. Will the reelected Majority Leader hold on to his position, or will some combination of a desire to present a new public face and the personal ambitions of Senator Schumer create a change?

The Republicans have expressed a committment to stand firm on their opposition to key aspects of Obamacare and their committment to reduce government spending - while at the same time affirming a willingness to work with the oposition. I'm at work and haven't had a chance to tune into the President's press conference, but I suspect he will voice some analogous combination of potentially contradictory committments. For both groups - and all of us - the devil will be in the details.
Cycloptichorn
 
  3  
Reply Wed 3 Nov, 2010 11:15 am
@georgeob1,
Quote:

The Republicans have expressed a committment to stand firm on their opposition to key aspects of Obamacare and their committment to reduce government spending - while at the same time affirming a willingness to work with the oposition.


Is this serious? The Republican leadership in both the House and the Senate specifically promised NOT to compromise with the Dems. It was a major part of their (and their subsidary 'tea party') platform.

Cycloptichorn
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 3 Nov, 2010 11:21 am
Gridlock is Good, it has brought the insane spending spree by Obama democrats to a screeching halt.

If Obama wants to be remembered for positive results, he must take that long walk to the middle.
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Nov, 2010 11:37 am
Quote:
One key leadership change will put Rep. Paul Ryan, R-Wis., in charge of the House Budget Committee, which proposes spending targets and estimates tax revenues. A vocal opponent of record federal budget deficits, Ryan has proposed " A Roadmap for America's Future" that would bring deep cuts in spending.


This, I think, is a good thing. I've listened to Paul Ryan for a few years now. I think he has a good head on his shoulders and some good ideas as a fiscal conservative. I don't like his position on social issues, however.
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Nov, 2010 11:50 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Probably just as serious as the analogous statements that will probably be forthcoming from the President. His earlier promise to keep them - in his words - in "the back seat of the car" don't promise very much either.

There's lots of hypocrisy on both sides of this divide, Cyclo.
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Wed 3 Nov, 2010 11:54 am
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

Probably just as serious as the analogous statements that will probably be forthcoming from the President. His earlier promise to keep them - in his words - in "the back seat of the car" don't promise very much either.

There's lots of hypocrisy on both sides of this divide, Cyclo.


I doubt you can point out any examples of the Republicans offering meaningful compromises on major bills over the last few years, yet you pretend equivalence in this matter. Why joke around like this? Nobody who seriously follows politics is buying this line.

I know that Fox News and others tried to raise a keruffle over Obama talking about the 'back seat of the car,' but I hardly expected knowledgeable observers such as yourself to blithely parrot such obvious tripe. Sadly surprised.

Cycloptichorn
Cycloptichorn
 
  0  
Reply Wed 3 Nov, 2010 11:56 am
@JPB,
JPB wrote:

Quote:
One key leadership change will put Rep. Paul Ryan, R-Wis., in charge of the House Budget Committee, which proposes spending targets and estimates tax revenues. A vocal opponent of record federal budget deficits, Ryan has proposed " A Roadmap for America's Future" that would bring deep cuts in spending.


This, I think, is a good thing. I've listened to Paul Ryan for a few years now. I think he has a good head on his shoulders and some good ideas as a fiscal conservative. I don't like his position on social issues, however.


I would encourage you to look at the specifics of his so-called 'Road Map.' It leaves us further in debt and deficit than we are now, does nothing to create private sector jobs, cuts millions of public-sector jobs (who then flood the job market for the private sector), and guts health care, Medicare, Medicaid, and SS - all in the name of cutting taxes on the rich and on Corporations. Over the 10-year course of the plan it doesn't even balance the budget!

Don't take my word for it - look for yourself. It is a deeply unserious 'plan' and I have no clue why people are propping him up as some sort of policy wonk when he simply isn't. I would also point out that he can't even get his own party leadership to commit to his 'road map,' because they know it's full of **** as much as I do.

Cycloptichorn
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Nov, 2010 12:17 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
I've just printed out the mega version and will read through it. From the Executive Summary and the high point versions of each section, though, I don't see much I disagree with (and, I'm currently under 55 and in the target group to expect less public support as I age).

His own party can't embrace it because it's politically dangerous for Republicans to talk about reducing benefits to the elderly --- even the future elderly. They get all jumpy about unplugging grandma and death panels and crap.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Nov, 2010 12:19 pm
@JPB,
JPB wrote:

I've just printed out the mega version and will read through it. From the Executive Summary and the high point versions of each section, though, I don't see much I disagree with (and, I'm currently under 55 and in the target group to expect less public support as I age).

His own party can't embrace it because it's politically dangerous for Republicans to talk about reducing benefits to the elderly --- even the future elderly. They get all jumpy about unplugging grandma and death panels and crap.


Cool, let me know what you think when you're done. I can't figure out how his plan actually accomplishes any goal other than cutting taxes.

Cycloptichorn
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Nov, 2010 12:28 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:

georgeob1 wrote:

Probably just as serious as the analogous statements that will probably be forthcoming from the President. His earlier promise to keep them - in his words - in "the back seat of the car" don't promise very much either.

There's lots of hypocrisy on both sides of this divide, Cyclo.


I doubt you can point out any examples of the Republicans offering meaningful compromises on major bills over the last few years, yet you pretend equivalence in this matter. Why joke around like this? Nobody who seriously follows politics is buying this line.

I know that Fox News and others tried to raise a keruffle over Obama talking about the 'back seat of the car,' but I hardly expected knowledgeable observers such as yourself to blithely parrot such obvious tripe. Sadly surprised.

Cycloptichorn


Both sides have promised to stand firm on principle and cooperate on everything else, and both sides claim fidelity to these promises, with equal objective supporting evidence. The single payer insurance option in the health care process died at the hands of Democrats in the Senate, not Republicans. True, they claim that they were doing this in hopes of Republican support. However, the claim defies credence, and most Dem. legislators emphasized their skepticism and reluctance - and not their support for the left wing approaches to Obamacare during the recent campaign.

Apparently you put more importance on the fact that Fox news (among others) reported this fairly constant mantra ("back seat of ther car") in Obama's stump speeches these last few months, than you do to the obvious fact that he himself repeated the prase at every turn during the recent cvampaign.
Cycloptichorn
 
  0  
Reply Wed 3 Nov, 2010 12:34 pm
@georgeob1,
Quote:
Both sides have promised to stand firm on principle and cooperate on everything else, and both sides claim fidelity to these promises, with equal objective supporting evidence. The single payer insurance optiuon in the health care process died at the hands of Democrats in the Senate.


Not quite accurate. It died in the WH, when the Prez' team offered it in exchange for the support of the insurance industry - who then turned around and stabbed them in the back later. Mistake on Obama's part.

Quote:
True, they claim that they were doing this in hopes of Republican support. However, the claim defies credence, and most Dem. legislators emphasized their skepticism and reluctance - and not their support for the left wing approaches to this issue during the recent campaign.


I don't understand what this means. Dems who opposed HCR in the House lost massively.

Quote:
Apparently you put more importance on the fact that Fox news (among others) reported this fairly constant mantra ("back seat of ther car") in Obama's stump speeches these last few months, than you do to the obvious fact that he himself repeated the prase at every turn during the recent cvampaign.


Fox News and others have attempted to make an issue over his use of the phrase, yes. And then it shows up in the rhetoric of those who watch it, later on, just as in your post. You find this surprising?

Cycloptichorn
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Nov, 2010 12:59 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Why do you consider the fact that Fox (as well as every other network) reported the stock phrase from a stump speech that was repeated many times to be more significant than the fact that the President of the United States repeatedly said it ?

What conclusion would you draw from the phrase if you were a Republican legislator?
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Wed 3 Nov, 2010 01:04 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

Why do you consider the fact that Fox (as well as every other network) reported the stock phrase from a stump speech that was repeated many times to be more significant than the fact that the President of the United States repeatedly said it?


He said it many times, for months, but it was only of late that the Republican party and their mouthpiece at Fox threw a hissy fit over it an accused the Prez of being, I kid you not, 'racially insensitive.' It was all over the Conservative blogs for a few days. Now it shows up in your posts. It's pretty clear that the info which lead you to bring the phrase up didn't spontaneously occur to you while watching a Stump speech, George.

I don't even know why we're having this conversation, because you know that I'm right. Or do you assert differently? You haven't yet.

Quote:
What conclusion would you draw from the phrase if you were a Republican legislator?


That depends. Am I attempting honest analysis, or trying to score political points? I'm sure you understand that there is a big difference between the two, and that I don't think that the Republican line has focused very much on honest analysis.

Cycloptichorn
 

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