Setanta
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 2 Nov, 2010 06:52 am
I'm not cranky, but i am fed up with your touchy bullshit . . . how about you don't respond to my posts, and i won't respond to yours.
msolga
 
  2  
Reply Tue 2 Nov, 2010 06:55 am
@Setanta,
OK, you're not cranky then.
0 Replies
 
High Seas
 
  -4  
Reply Tue 2 Nov, 2010 07:32 am
@msolga,
msolga wrote:

Well I haven't seen any yet ... from this election. Obviously. Wink
But generally they tell me about voting patterns & stuff like that ...
Nothing to get all cranky about.

There is plenty to get beyond cranky and into aggravated by posters whose information is 3rd hand (at best) but who illogically persist in repeating their "opinions". They're spreading propaganda concocted by others, ignoring their potentially nefarious effects on actual votes. Try to see how that works:
http://demonstrations.wolfram.com/VoterModel/
High Seas
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 2 Nov, 2010 07:35 am
@nimh,
nimh wrote:

This is the part that I called facile. It's just wrong. We may have wanted more from the Obama admin, ....

Who is "we"?
High Seas
 
  -4  
Reply Tue 2 Nov, 2010 07:41 am
@High Seas,
Ms Olga - if you're the one who zeroed this post, you weren't the poster I had in mind, NIMH was. Feel free to be included in the comment, though Smile
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  2  
Reply Tue 2 Nov, 2010 08:11 am
@nimh,
nimh wrote:
Good God, Joe. Google it:

No need. I was aware of the potential ambiguities inherent in the casual misuse of "facile" before I used the word. That's an approach I highly recommend to others.
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Nov, 2010 08:28 am
@nimh,
nimh wrote:

I would love this to be true, but I'm afraid I don't believe it. A lot of the failures of the administration to get things done, even things that would, in another time, have been wholly uncontroversial, are due to the GOP already having used anonymous holds and the threat of filibuster effectively enough to block them, but are the voters holding the m responsible? Obviously not. They don't particularly like them any better than the Dems, as the favo9urability numbers show, but they see the Dems as the ones in power and thus automatically place the responsibility on them.



It all depends on your point of view. "Republican obstructionism" as characterized by some Democrats consists of valliant efforts to prevent the passage of stupid, harmful, ill-timed legislation from another perspective. We can argue endlessly about polls, but it is beyond dispute that, apart from the financial reform legislation, the legislative "achievements" of the administration over the past two years do NOT enjoy massive public support.

There is a lot to be said for divided government (President & Congress controlled by different parties. Government does less mischief in such circumstances.
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Nov, 2010 10:51 am
@joefromchicago,
Allright. Words change meaning over time. Shocker, I know. Your point was merely to regret said fact, then?
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Nov, 2010 10:53 am
CONGRESS
A Record To Be Proud Of

Regardless of what happens in the voting booths today, the 111th Congress will be coming to an end. According to polls, many people -- in fact, most Democrats -- may be happy to see it go: a recent Pew and National Journal survey shows that only one-third of Democrats think this Congress achieved more than recent congresses, while 60 percent think it has achieved the same or less. Unfortunately, this perception is divorced from reality. The 111th Congress has been easily one of the most productive congresses in American history, having passed major reforms of health care, the financial sector, and the student loan industry, while also pumping a massive stimulus bill into the economy that helped save or create millions of jobs. The New York Times described this Congress as one whose accomplishments rival "any other since the New Deal in scope or ambition."

A FOCUS ON ECONOMY: When Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) gaveled in the 111th Congress in January 2009, the country faced severe problems, none more pressing than a cratering economy. The unemployment rate had skyrocketed since 2007 with no signs of relenting, and the private sector needed a jump start. In its first month, the 111th Congress passed the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, which President Obama quickly signed into law. The non-partisan CBO found that the bill created 3.7 million jobs, and GDP and manufacturing have both grown steadily over the past year. The bill also included significant tax cuts. The Tax Policy Center found that the tax cuts contained in the stimulus bill saved an average of $1,179 for 96.9 percent of U.S. households in 2009. Congress later passed, and Obama signed, the Small Business Jobs Act of 2010 , which cut taxes by $12 billion for small businesses and leveraged $300 billion in private sector lending for small businesses. Congress also passed -- and Obama signed -- a $26 billion jobs bill to save over 300,000 teachers, police, and other public workers from layoffs. Congress provided additional stimulus for the economy with the Hire Act, which created up to 300,000 jobs by starting a payroll tax holiday and other tax credits for businesses that hire unemployed workers, and with an extension to unemployment benefits for those still unable to find work in a tough economy. Aside from these major steps to jump-start the economy, the 111th Congress also reformed several dysfunctional institutions. The Affordable Care Act transformed the country's health care system, by reforming health insurers' discriminatory practices, expanding Medicaid coverage, and income-based help for health care, and creating health insurance exchanges where consumers can shop for high-value coverage. The Wall Street reform bill ended taxpayer-funded bailouts of large financial institutions, created numerous regulations to prevent irresponsible behavior by such institutions, and created the Bureau of Consumer Financial Protection to serve as a Wall Street watchdog. The 111th Congress also reformed the student loan industry by passing a bill that marked the largest investment in college aid in history: it increased Pell Grants, strengthened community colleges, and ended wasteful subsidies to private lenders. The bill is expected to pump $100 billion into the economy thanks to the increased earnings of new students who can take advantage of the reforms. Congress also passed the Lily Ledbetter Fair Pay Act, which restored basic protections against pay discrimination towards women.

THE LITTLE THINGS MATTER: While these issues -- the stimulus measures, and reforms of the health insurance, financial, and student loan industries -- received much national attention, there were myriad other small acts that went largely unnoticed but figure to create significant improvements for many Americans. For example, the Credit Cardholders' Bill of Rights created significant protections against deception and abuse by credit card companies. The Edward M. Kennedy Serve America Act tripled volunteerism opportunities and increased college financial awards. The Ryan White HIV/AIDS Treatment Extension Act guaranteed access to medications and care for low-income patients with AIDS and HIV. The U.S. Manufacturing Enhancement Act lowered or eliminated duties on some materials that are not made domestically, so that American manufacturers can compete with foreign manufacturers. For Americans that fly commercial airlines, the Airline Passenger Bill of Rights Act provides improved passenger safety via stronger training requirements for commercial pilots. Congress also passed a bill authorizing the FDA to regulate the advertising, marketing, and manufacturing of tobacco products, which are the leading cause of preventable U.S. deaths.

STILL WORK TO BE DONE: While these measures are no doubt significant, the 111th Congress is leaving a lot of runners on base, with further work to be done on issues such as climate change and immigration reform. The House passed the American Clean Energy and Security Act, also known as the cap-and-trade bill, which would have provided a marketplace in which to regulate dangerous carbon emissions while creating 1.7 million jobs and helping free America from dependence on foreign oil. The Senate has not acted on that bill. The House also passed bills that would have eliminated a liability cap on the damages BP faces for the 2010 oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico, and that would have given the BP Oil Spill Commission subpoena power to investigate what went wrong. There is still a bill to create a public option for health insurance on the table, for which Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) has promised a vote. Also, the Senate and the House have yet to take action to pass the DREAM Act or comprehensive immigration reform, a promise Obama ran on in 2008. The House also passed the Disclose Act, which would prohibit foreign entities and government contractors from influencing American elections, while establishing extensive disclosure rules for political contributions. Two bills in the House, the Jobs for Main Street Act and the Small Business & Infrastructure Jobs Act, would create significant investment in American infrastructure through redirection of TARP funds and by increasing bonds and tax breaks for infrastructure development. All of these issues await action by the 112th Congress, which has large legislative shoes to fill, despite what the polls say.

--americanprogressaction.org




0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  3  
Reply Tue 2 Nov, 2010 10:55 am
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:
We can argue endlessly about polls, but it is beyond dispute that, apart from the financial reform legislation, the legislative "achievements" of the administration over the past two years do NOT enjoy massive public support.

Not quite beyond dispute. Much of the legislation passed in the last two years did, in fact, enjoy considerable support: increasing the minimum wage, bypassing the banks on student loans, expanding SCHIP health insurance program for children, etc.

The stimulus, obviously, not so much. But even the big health care bill is hardly the albatross around the Dems' neck that Republicans like to make it out to be. Opinion about the bill as a whole is actually roughly evenly split, and a lot of individual parts of the bill enjoy large support.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  3  
Reply Tue 2 Nov, 2010 10:59 am
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:
This is mere ipse dixit. You don't advance any reason to believe this is what will happen, you just state that it will. [..] But it always does amuse me to see you tell us what Americans think about our political situation.

Well, yes, it is my opinion. Just as your assertion that " things won't much change, other than that the Republicans will be held responsible for the idiocy" was merely your opinion, stated without evidence.

But yes, I forgot - you are an American and I am not, ergo, you know better.
nimh
 
  2  
Reply Tue 2 Nov, 2010 11:06 am
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

Before you go all nerd on us and start posting charts and graphs, Habibi, maybe you should read this summay of a recent poll:

Quote:
[..]
-- that the number viewing the Republican Party favorably is at an all-time low;
-- and that the Democratic Party doesn't fare much better.


Well, duh.

I already wrote, in the very post you responded to: "They don't particularly like them any better than the Dems, as the favourability numbers show".

Don't see how that addresses my argument -- which is that the party that holds the President and the Senate will be held responsible for the mess by most voters, who don't pay attention to the to-and-fro in the two Congressional chambers; not the party that only holds the House. Pretty much regardless the merits of the case.

Short of trying to impeach the President again, I'm afraid I don't see Republican obstruction backfiring much electorally, just like it hasn't backfired so far.
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Tue 2 Nov, 2010 11:10 am
@nimh,
Quote:

Don't see how that addresses my argument -- which is that the party that holds the President and the Senate will be held responsible for the mess by most voters, who don't pay attention to the to-and-fro in the two Congressional chambers; not the party that only holds the House. Pretty much regardless the merits of the case.


That depends entirely on how much the Prez highlights the issue. He in many ways sets the agenda for the national conversation, and if he focuses on Republican intransigence, that's what will be talked about.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  3  
Reply Tue 2 Nov, 2010 12:54 pm
Holy crap, this is cool.

Are you geek enough to want to know at one glance, for any House, Senate or Governor race, how Cook, Sabato, Rothenberg, CQ Politics and RealClearPolitics are rating the chances?

Google Maps is there for you
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Tue 2 Nov, 2010 01:07 pm
@Setanta,
You should try sleeping on the floor, Set. Then you wouldn't have to get up on the wrong side of the bed every morning.
0 Replies
 
fbaezer
 
  2  
Reply Tue 2 Nov, 2010 02:17 pm
@nimh,
Cool map, nimh.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Nov, 2010 02:30 pm
@nimh,
Yes, i'm sure you don't see how it addresses your argument, since it has long been evident that you think you know more about politics in America than Americans do. I refer you to Cyclo's post, and would expand that to add that the success of the Democrats in 2012 will be in the hands of the people in the party responsible for getting the message out.
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Tue 2 Nov, 2010 02:44 pm
@Setanta,
Quote:
and would expand that to add that the success of the Democrats in 2012 will be in the hands of the people in the party responsible for getting the message out


Now there's some incisive political analysis. Who'dave ever figured such a thing? Damn, you are one sharp cookie, Set.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Nov, 2010 02:46 pm
Splitting the executive and the legislative between the two parties is an old tradition with the American electorate. It cannot necessarily be taken to be an indicator of future electoral success. In 1954, the voters gave the Republican President Eisenhower a Democratic Congress to wok with. Eisenhower was re-elected in 1956. In 1994, the voters gave the Democratic President Clinton a Republican Congress to work with. Clinton was re-elected in 1996.
High Seas
 
  -3  
Reply Wed 3 Nov, 2010 07:20 am
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

Yes, i'm sure you don't see how it addresses your argument, since it has long been evident that you think you know more about politics in America than Americans do. I refer you to Cyclo's post....

Is there any reason you can think of why all - all! - overseas posters with strong opinions on US elections support the Democratic Party?

By this I mean any reason other than the blindingly obvious fact that nobody knows better than the locals. I have a tentative answer - don't really insist on it, just can't come up with any other explanation fitting all the facts: these posters' undisguised contempt for "the people" as the word is used here:
Quote:
"I know no safe depositary of the ultimate powers of the society but the people themselves; and if we think them not enlightened enough to exercise their control with a wholesome discretion, the remedy is not to take it from them, but to inform their discretion by education."
0 Replies
 
 

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