How hungry would you have to be to pee in a cup.

@maxdancona,

There's a practical consideration here - does the company have any contracts, current or potential, with any agency of the federal government? That includes sub-contractors to NASA, FAA, and other agencies, i.e. just about everyone in the software business. Then the company has no discretion.

There are some privacy protections built into the rules: you have the right to know exactly what test will be performed. I don't know the requirements for your application, but for pilot licenses you have to do all those tests, including blood: for the blood test you get a special form to sign where you have to check you explicitly give permission to the lab to check for HIV. Funny aside: I used to sign all those damn forms without reading them, page after page of them, giving permissions to everything, until one day someone came back with a form I where I had checked the "No" column from top to bottom of a page; and one of the questions read: "Are you breathing?" Well OK, everything else really was a "No" Smile

Don't give it another thought - just do it.

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@High Seas,

I have been in the software business for 20+ years (with a brief stint in another industry). I have never been asked to sign a consent for drug testing before including when I worked for a company that did defense contracts.

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@maxdancona,

I know that's how it used to be; but things have changed, legally speaking. Of course that may not apply to your company, or to the job.

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@maxdancona,

Then don't do it. Move on to the next job vacancy.

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I am a bit taken aback at the harsh responses in this thread. I don't believe I have attacked anyone personally. The worst thing I am going to do is pass up on a job opportunity which isn't going to kill defenseless kittens and doesn't seem bad enough to warrant some of the attacks here.

That being said, let me invite some more abuse by daring to question the effectiveness of drug testing. I googled around a bit and found no credible evidence that drug testing does any good in most companies. Some people on this thread seem to assume that it has some measurable benefit to companies, but the research is spotty at best, and some of it has found that companies with drug testing have lower productivity.

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@maxdancona,

The test they're asking you for isn't too bad - for other jobs you have to give DNA (cotton swab swished around mouth) which detects drug usage for the last decade (or for all I know longer still) of drugs like heroin. I don't really know how accurate these tests are, or how far back they go, but privacy is long gone by the wayside. As to responses being harsh, I hope you don't mean mine - I didn't mean them that way at all. Good luck to you.

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@High Seas,

Fortunately there are still lots of companies that treat employees with respect. I have had many interviews recently, this is the first company where this has come up.

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@High Seas,

Laughing.

I signed the creepy thing going to work for a university not long after the nineteen fifties; we've had thread about the issue, but I'm not remembering the details right now. Something about going to battle to repel invaders, that and loyalty to the USA. Interesting question in my family, not that we weren't loyal by action, but that action, or non action, was questioned, in the fifties, by the iffies.

I like, on a personal basis, companies made up of minds that work well together, for however long that kind of thing can last. The realities of the workplace at large do make what Calamity Jane said make sense.

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@maxdancona,

I think many companies ask you to do a pre-employment physical where drug testing is conducted. This company just let you know ahead of time instead of after a position was offered.

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@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

. . . I have had many interviews recently, this is the first company where this
has come up.

Then it's kind of a moot point, no?

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@George,

erm? I get why Max asks this, and it is reasonable to discuss.

Oh, look, five white cells...

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@George,

Sure. This is not that much of a big deal. They have the right to ask me to sign this form if I want the job. I have the right to pass on this job.

The only dilemma is that passing up on jobs in this economy is a bit hard. This is why the question is a bit of a balance, and thus the question in the title of the thread.

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@edgarblythe,

edgarblythe wrote:

I very willingly took a drug test when I applied at my present job. I don't see why it is a problem.

I very willingly put on shackles and stepped on the treadmill... And what I now tell you don't ever forget: for the faster you run, the nowhere you get until you wish for the end, but step by step, you find you're a slave with no end in sight and that's not right...

I understand it very well... You can't give some one an intelligence test for a job, but you can check their credit and test their hair and urine for drugs, which is about as close to an intelligence test as we get... But it is still an invasion of privacy, and for what??? Is it more than simply wanting to control every factor in a person's life??? What if they want to control who get's married, and who has children on the basis of company benefit, or the needs of property... It is easy to accept that little imposition on liberty, for a good cause, but for many good causes is liberty threatened... We let that class of people run us through our assholes so fast we can never catch up... They create the reality we are all trying to escape, and then when we try to escape it they leave us to starve... I don't like drug heads in my way; but I don't like the way employers act... They should have a damned good reason for what they do...

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@ossobuco,

Decades ago, I asked re my father's files.

Almost all blacked out.

I have a commanding officer photo of him, too long to post, with the facing troups. As I understood it, he was the officer, colonel at some point, in command for photography there and elsewhere, the whole army air force, and he was, later, positioned as photo commander re the bomb tests. (don't get me started)

later, hoover was a burr on his person.

So, I don't just naturally pee in a cup. But, I get doing that.

Back in my work time, I remember that performance criteria were the thing.
As I said, I did sign a loyalty oath to get a job at a university.
Like duh, I love my country, but what is this ****?
But generally, I think I like performance criteria as an idea.

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I am offended that SCOTUS allows this invasion of our personal space by the holders of capital (business owners). It was this ruling and the legality of forfeiture of homes, cars and money when it is guessed that the illegal drug business is involved that got me to the point where I no longer had faith in SCOTUS to properly interpret the Constitution.

I used to say that I would never take a drug test on principle, but now I think I might because it is so expensive to uphold this principle on the job market. I think that I might take the test, but work politically to end the tests.

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@maxdancona,

Quote:

Some people on this thread seem to assume that it has some measurable benefit to companies, but the research is spotty at best, and some of it has found that companies with drug testing have lower productivity.

Seem to assume because this has been the argument used to invade our privacy. It sounds logical that a druggie would be less valuable to a company, but it has never been proven to my satisfaction. Even if it where true, the exact same argument could be used to crack into employees mental health history, or their juvenile arrest record, if they smoke off the job, if they have bad credit, if they have a genetic defect, if they are overweight, if they score badly on emotional tests, if they are a woman who might have kids, if they have dangerous hobbies, ...................................................................
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
......................................................................................

Where do we stop once we go down the road of allowing employers to snoop into areas of the employees life above and beyond job performance? How the **** did we get brainwashed into going along with this abuse of the individual?

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The company is just covering its ass. It's th' dadburn gummit whut's t' blame! The irrational and misguided 'war on drugs', insofar as it includes marijuana, is just so much moralistic, hypocritical posturing for political points with the voting constituents.

Btw, I have to pee in a cup once a year. I just roll my eyes and give them my little yellow gift. Screw 'em.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

I am offended that SCOTUS allows this invasion of our personal space by the holders of capital (business owners). It was this ruling and the legality of forfeiture of homes, cars and money when it is guessed that the illegal drug business is involved that got me to the point where I no longer had faith in SCOTUS to properly interpret the Constitution.

I used to say that I would never take a drug test on principle, but now I think I might because it is so expensive to uphold this principle on the job market. I think that I might take the test, but work politically to end the tests.

I think it is obscene that we have political rights that are nominal, at best, with the presumption of innocence being one them, but that for the sake of employment which is little better than slavery, we are presumed guilty and must prove innocence... Well isn't it always true that political rights based upon political equality cannot defend anyone in the face of economic right built on economic inequality??? We have to choose at some point whether we are going to let those with the money call all our shots, or just keep it to a respectable few... Because if we have no choice in the matter; if they as a class can do to us what the government cannot rightfully do to us without cause, then our rights are not worth the paper they are written on since it is also the job of government to defend us, and what good is it if it says it will not kill you but others can if the price is right???

It is because money has for so long been the sole determining factor in all our decisions that so many feel that emptyness they want to stuff drugs into to cure... It is like their pleasure is not complete unless they can force their workers to endure in total consciousness the futility, repetition, and meaninglessness of their pitiful lives...

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@FBM,

FBM wrote:

The company is just covering its ass. It's th' dadburn gummit whut's t' blame! The irrational and misguided 'war on drugs', insofar as it includes marijuana, is just so much moralistic, hypocritical posturing for political points with the voting constituents.

Btw, I have to pee in a cup once a year. I just roll my eyes and give them my little yellow gift. Screw 'em.

If you had a government that was not simply a cover for plutocracy, they would step in and say only with due cause is anyones private behavior searched out and investigated... In this country there are a whole lot of behaviors more obnoxious by far than illegal drug use that are legal only because the capitalist class can make a buck from them...

A sane society would make economic activity that leads to the destruction of the environment and of people, the incredible neglect and exploitation of children, and the draining of wealth and meaning from a whole people Illegal, and a Capital offense... Because it is killing us as a people, and a society and individually... This society creates heartless, unfeeling, uncaring brutes who have no sympathy because they are denied the right to have sympathy for self, to look at their own conditions and weep...

The only sane ones are trying to escape reality without hurting anyone, and all the rest are trying to find their meaning demeaning others... Here we are beating the bushes for life's victims when we should be strangling those who drive them to despair to escape in their own way the reality they help to create...

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I have been asked if would be prepared to take a drug test as part of pre interview. I was shocked at first but realised that the company was only asking if i was prepared to take one. They'd had users before. I got the job and no test was required.
I cant see what the big deal is.

1. you have nothing to hide
2. get a friend to pee in a cup for you if you do. they are not gonna watch you.
3. The company wants clean employees thats their prerogative

I dont see where civil rights or privacy issues come into it. Do it or dont continue the interview process.

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How hungry would you have to be to pee in a cup.

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