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If you are a low/no meat eater, how do you feel about meat imitations?

 
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 Oct, 2010 01:55 am
Aren't you bloody clever. Your interests are a matter of indifference to me, and for that matter, no one here has any basis upon which to assume that you have actually presented facts in the matter of how your tofu is produced. I'm willing to accept your allegations, but you did not initially address how the soy beans from which your tofu was producedk are themselves produced. It is reasonable to ask that question, given what a destructive crop soy beans are in all but a handful of exceptional cases. Once again, if you don't like what i post, if you allege that i'm just picking a fight, don't respond. You make your own bed, and then whine about being obliged to lie in it. Any time you post something which i consider dubious, i'm going to point that out, and that is perfectly reasonable, and that is what a forum such as this is all about. Crybaby.
aidan
 
  2  
Reply Fri 1 Oct, 2010 02:01 am
I don't eat soy - I don't like it the same as I don't like meat.
I think I developed an aversion to it when I was little- I accidentally drank a glass of soy milk that belonged to this little boy my mother was babysitting for- and expecting my regular cow's milk, it was a nasty surpise. I spit it out.

I did try tofu for a while - particularly when my kids were little - trying to be a good mom. I spoonfed it in some sort of concoction to my son when he was about a year old - still too young to be handling his own spoon. He accepted every bite of it, chewed, swallowed and cleaned the plate and then promptly vomited. And he wasn't sick - and not a picky eater - so that's the last time we had tofu in our house. I can't blame him - the texture weirds me out.
If I'm going to take in calories - I'd rather have calories I enjoy.

I couldn't be a vegan. I get my protein via eggs. My vice is cheese. And I can't make it through the day without yogurt. But I'm a middle-aged, small-boned woman of Northern-European descent so I need the calcium. And since I can't get it from soy products - it's what I gotta do.
But I figure it all evens out.

Well this is where I got my information. I hope it's all true.

Quote:
Vegans vs. Vegetarians
What kind of diet is best for the environment?
By Brendan I. Koerner
Posted Tuesday, Oct. 23, 2007, at 7:43 AM ET
As a longtime vegetarian, I've always been confident that my diet is better for the planet than that of your typical carnivore. But a vegan pal of mine says I could be doing a lot more, by rejecting all animal products—no eggs, no milk, not even the occasional bowl of mac 'n cheese. Is veganism really that much better for the environment?

Since few Americans have followed Alicia Silverstone's abstemious lead and renounced animal products altogether, there aren't many data available on the environmental consequences of veganism. Somewhere between 2 percent and 5 percent of the nation's eaters classify themselves as vegetarians; of that number, perhaps 5 percent are strict vegans. As a result, most research on meat-free diets has focused on lacto-ovo vegetarians, the milk-and-egg eaters who form the lion's share of the veggie demographic.

According to a 2005 University of Chicago study, a lacto-ovo vegetarian emits far less greenhouse gas than a counterpart adhering to the standard, meat-rich American diet—the difference is equivalent to around 1.5 metric tons of carbon dioxide per year, assuming the same daily caloric intake. (The study's authors thus claim that going vegetarian has the same effect on carbon dioxide emissions as switching from a Chevrolet Suburban to a Toyota Camry.) The savings mostly come about because of the disparity between the fossil fuel required to produce a calorie's worth of grain vs. that needed to make a calorie's worth of beef; grain is nearly a dozen times more efficient in this regard. Cattle are also a huge source of methane, a particularly noxious greenhouse gas; it's estimated that bovines are responsible for roughly triple the methane emissions of the American coal industry.

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Yet lacto-ovo vegetarians still derive about 14 percent of their calories from animal products. Bring that number down to zero, as strict vegans do, and you'll certainly ratchet down your carbon emissions by another several hundred pounds per year. "If we put [greenhouse gas] emissions above all else, then veganism beats lacto-ovo vegetarianism handily," says Gidon Eshel, a co-author of the University of Chicago study. "That much is clear and unequivocal."

But Eshel hastens to add—and The Lantern wholeheartedly agrees—that your vegan acquaintance isn't necessarily some environmental saint. That's because direct carbon dioxide emissions are only part of the story when it comes to food's eco-impact. You also have to look at the issue of land use—specifically how much and what sort of land is required to sustain an agricultural enterprise. In a region with poor-to-mediocre soil, for example, it may be more efficient to operate a well-managed egg farm than to try growing vegetables that can't flourish under such conditions. And animals are handy at consuming low-quality grain that isn't necessarily fit for human consumption. (Rather than going to waste, that grain can help create nutrient-rich dairy products.) In fact, a recent Cornell University study concluded that modest carnivorousness may actually be better for the environment than outright vegetarianism, since cattle can graze on inferior land not suitable for crops. Squeezing more calories out of the land means that less food needs be imported from elsewhere, thereby reducing the burning of fossil fuels.

That's music to the ears of The Lantern, a devoted meat-eater who weeps at the very thought of life without bacon cheeseburgers and curry goat. But there are important caveats to the Cornell study: First, its calculations assume that all meat is raised locally, rather than frozen and trucked cross-country; second, the study recommended that to optimize land use, residents of New York state (where the research was conducted) limit their meat and egg consumption to two cooked ounces per day—3.8 ounces less than the national average.

Though The Lantern admires the ascetic fortitude of vegetarians and vegans, it's pretty unrealistic to expect the majority of adult Americans to forgo steak for the benefit of the planet. At the same time, agriculture is responsible for between 17 percent and 20 percent of the nation's energy consumption. So instead of hectoring people to become vegetarians—a tactic that causes many Americans to roll their eyes—perhaps we should start by urging consumers to be more cognizant of exactly how much energy it takes to produce and transport an Extra-Long Bacon Cheddar Cheesesteak. And it wouldn't hurt if people got wise to the fact that meat needn't be the focus of every breakfast, lunch, and dinner.

That's going to be a serious challenge, however, considering that per capita meat consumption rose by 40 percent in the United States between 1961 and 2002. One hopes that the Chinese don't follow our gluttonous lead, but the news so far isn't encouraging: Meat consumption in China has already doubled over the past decade.

Is there an environmental quandary that's been keeping you up at night? Send it to [email protected], and check this space every Tuesday.

0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Fri 1 Oct, 2010 02:20 am
If you would like to still use dairy products, but reduce your use of animal byproducts, you can get "vegetarian" cheese, which is made without rennet from animal guts. You might want to research that. I don't believe that using vegetarian cheese would reduce the calcium you get.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Fri 1 Oct, 2010 04:30 am
@Setanta,
Quote:
Excuse me, the tofu is legit? Just because they don't use Monsanto seed? Did you verify that they use the more expensive and yield-reducing cultivation methods which are the only way to reduce the otherwise drastic wind and water erosion? Did you verify that they don't use chemical fertilizer, pesticides and herbicides? You know for a fact that that tofu is "legit," huh?


Stop with the hypocrisy, Setanta. It fits you.

Quote:
(It would be ironic if you learned they bought their soy beans from Brazil, and that they were grown on land which was, until quite recently, rain forest.)


Brazilians are allowed to do exactly what Americans did, ie. clear their lands for crops. Again with the hypocrisy.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Fri 1 Oct, 2010 04:35 am
@Setanta,
Quote:
given what a destructive crop soy beans are in all but a handful of exceptional cases


You keep mouthing this but you never prove that it's so.

Quote:
Any time you post something which i consider dubious, i'm going to point that out, and that is perfectly reasonable, and that is what a forum such as this is all about. Crybaby.


Now isn't this ironic. No one, nobody, that's not a soul here at A2K is as big a crybaby as you, Setanta. This paragraph above has been repeated so often by you that you might as well make it your signature line.


0 Replies
 
coluber2001
 
  2  
Reply Wed 6 Oct, 2010 11:24 am
Thanks, Thomas for the seitan idea. I had never heard of it, and it seems like a good food. I've just made my first batch, and the results are promising. Here is a recipe I dug up online, which I followed faithfully except for the yeast flakes. The protein in seitan, I believe is complementary to that in soy products, so adding them both to stir-fry, spaghetti, etc., makes a complete meal.

You mentioned buying 50 lbs of gluten flour for $100. Could you advise me on your source? Once again, thanks for the great idea.

Seitan recipe:
http://www.theppk.com/recipes/dbrecipes/index.php?RecipeID=112
Rockhead
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Oct, 2010 12:31 pm
I accidentally almost ate some tofu on Monday.

my tongue recognized it, and there was a waste container nearby.

it looked edible, though...
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Oct, 2010 12:34 pm
There was a show on meat eating/not eating meat on CBC the other day, and today they read their mail about the show. One listener wrote in to say: "If i stop eating meat, the vegetarians win!"

hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe . . .
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Oct, 2010 12:41 pm
@Rockhead,
Next time you will look for the label first.
Rockhead
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Oct, 2010 12:42 pm
@edgarblythe,
it said grilled veggies.

is tofu a vegetable now?
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Oct, 2010 12:44 pm
No, but the people who eat tofu are . . . maybe that was the dodge . . .
Rockhead
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Oct, 2010 12:49 pm
@Setanta,
In their defense, the scantily clad young lady in front of me was a fine specimen.

casaba, I think.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Oct, 2010 01:11 pm
Melons of some kind, right?
Rockhead
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Oct, 2010 01:12 pm
@Setanta,
indeed.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Wed 6 Oct, 2010 04:31 pm
@Setanta,
Ill bet that the above recipe for SEITAN makes a food that tastes like SPAKEL.
I read a label for "Morning STar (fake) chicken wings" It is a formed veggie product with all sorts of stabilizers and ino cyanates and hydrides, Ill bet Dupont was the chef de Maison.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Oct, 2010 05:27 pm
Good evening, Modom, Sir . . . will you be dining Chez Monsanto this evening?
0 Replies
 
failures art
 
  3  
Reply Wed 6 Oct, 2010 05:53 pm
In a thread about how people feel about imitation products, the tune has changed to how people feel about the people who eat these products. It seems it's not enough to simply not enjoy or dislike these products, but additionally there is s need to ridicule those who eat them.

A
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Setanta
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 6 Oct, 2010 05:56 pm
Somebody get that boy a crying towel. As it happens, both FM and i were addressing the subject of fake meat products in the last two posts.
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Wed 6 Oct, 2010 06:22 pm
@failures art,
I was makin fun of Morning Star "chickenlon" food-like substance. Jeezus, stop bein so touchy . Im sure you can tell me why inocyanates are good for us?
failures art
 
  0  
Reply Wed 6 Oct, 2010 06:30 pm
@Setanta,
You have no reason to explain yourself, yet you do. You do so without being named. You protest too much.

A
R
T
 

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