The question is not what do I propose. The question is what you are willing to do once you realize what the root of the problem is or has been. What are YOU willing to do to offset the negative effects of racism against blacks?
Noah, if you can't come up with an answer to Phoenix's question, you have already concluded your own thesis on two levels: One, that Blacks are indeed inferior, and two, that most Whites believe and support White supremacy. Sure, people with less hurdles in life can advance quicker, but that is more a situation of wealth and influence. Of course, only whites are wealthy and influential, probably.
Noah The African wrote:The question is not what do I propose. The question is what you are willing to do once you realize what the root of the problem is or has been. What are YOU willing to do to offset the negative effects of racism against blacks?
Whatever, it won't be enough for you, so who cares?
Noah The African wrote:The question is not what do I propose. The question is what you are willing to do once you realize what the root of the problem is or has been. What are YOU willing to do to offset the negative effects of racism against blacks?
Sorry, this is just silly. I accused you earlier of wanting Whites to apologize for Black oppression and "do" something about it, something which you denied was part of your question. Clearly, it is.
If people cannot come to a consensus in regards to the root of a problem, then they will not likely come to a consensus on a solution.
That having been said, given that we are physical beings in this closed universe and that human thoughts and activities are indeed the result of physical energies, I will use Newtonian logic. Newton Law (Paraphrasing) says that any object in a state of equilibrium that is impacted and removed from equilibrium by an external force, thus requires an equal and opposite counter force to restore equilibrium to the object.
Of course, this logical solution will be rejected by emotionalism concerning race.
Phoenix, that is not an offset, that is simply neutrality. It is like voting on an issue. You might abstain from voting yea or nea on a controversial issue. Yet, your abstaining, as opposed to working for or against, helps one side or the other win. You could have been a person whose vote in the opposite direction, changed things for the better. However, you choice to walk the middle line, in the case of race, simply preserves the effects of those who vote to discriminate against black people.
Noah just might be starting to understand how we discuss here. Actually, I think you are on the right track here, and I doubt anyone will reject your new approach to your question. In fact, I suspect it will be embraced.
Okay folks, I think Noah made a real effort there, that warrants discussion.
That is my proposal phoenix, in the abstract. My solution is that the negative energy committed against and upon black people needs to be offset by positive energy. Now, you can leave the thread if you wish for you are not doing me any favors by continuing. It does not take a rocket scientist to figure out that there are many different ways to promote positive energy directed towards improving the lives of black people.
Noah: Let's say I am not too bright, and tend to become confused by abstractions. What are you proposing in a CONCRETE way?
I for one would be willing to continue along Noah's new parameters. Anyone else up for it? Yes, the rhetoric bothered me as much as it bothered everyone else, but we seem to be on a slightly different topic now, and I think it deserves some thought.
What thoughts might come out, I cannot predict.
I agree. While I was writing, I had missed an important post by Noah, which I saw afterwards.
I'm just curious if the question shouldn't be 'how can we all help ourselves, thereby making it easier to help others'?
It is my opinion that Noah has revealed himself and his agenda from word one, and his new "reasonable" approach will lead to the same conclusion...whites are devils......
This is my opinion unless Noah has experienced the kind of epiphany he has stated that whites must experience to change.....did that happen this morning Noah?
If not, same old same old.....
Economics is about interdependencies in our capitalistic model and economic “helping ourselves…via exploiting others” is how this mess disequilibria of race resulted. The convergence and interrelationships between owners of capital, workers and consumers is how the system is constructed. Thus, one cannot help them selves economically in an interdependent system, without affecting others. As much as people like to talk about the individual being king of his or her destiny under the system, it is pure fallacy. If the individual was controller of his or her economic fate, then there would never be recession or depressions, for why would people choose to be unemployed or without means to support self and family?
Thus, focusing on the SELF, ignores the interdependencies under the system and is not a viable comprehensive solution. Indeed, people can and do lift themselves up, by putting others down. Thus, those people who “Helped their selves” simply created problems for others, which result in a zero sum gain for humanity.
Noah, For crying out loud; forget the "black" in your question. It's not a matter of what all the others can do for "blacks." Once you overcome this idea that only "blacks" suffer from discrimination, you'll begin to understand the "real" issues. Why do you suppose there have been a problem in Northern Ireland? It's not a matter of "blacks" or whites. As somebody mentioned earlier, there have many much discrimination against "whites" when they first arrived in this country. You are assuming that the "black" problem stems from whites. WRONG~! It stems from ignorance and bigotry whether it's white against white or white against yellow or white against black or black against white, or yellow against white or black, or black against yellow, and every other combination. Once you get off your high black horse, maybe there is something to be discussed.
