So you think that I never heard of the Quakers and abolitionist. You think that I have never heard of the whites that rode buses to the South, some of who died, to help blacks fight for civil rights and equality? The thing is...
many whites that sit on the sideline try to ride the coattail of those whites that proactively sought to help black people. If you think it unfair to you, as a white person, to be linked and labeled from the activities of bad whites, then you cannot be linked or labeled from the activities of good whiteS either.
If the majority of whites decided to recognize and be proactive in offsetting the effects of centuries of discrimination against blacks, inequality would not still be evident today.
OK, Mr. Noah, as I understand, equality is what you are craving for. I completely support equality of all the people regardless of their color of skin, but I want to remind you of one simple thing: real equality of people is incompatible with affirmative action. It implies equal treatment of everybody, without giving race-based preferences to anyone, either Whites or Blacks. Just a fair competition for positions on the job market, for university admissions, etc. Do you feel ready to give up the above privileges in exchange for absolute and unchallenged equality of Blacks, Whites, Natives and Asians?
I am not about to have a discussion or debate with you about Affirmative Action, with you making the fallacious assumption that the playing field is even now. My whole thesis was predicated on the racial gaps that is evidence that the playing filed is not even, as black people have inherited baggage from the past that slows them down, plus, we still deal with contemporary racism and its effects.
You need to first go answer the question that I posed to everyone else in regards to black problems being the result of NURTURE or NATURE. It is moot to argue the merit of affirmative action with someone who assumes that black nature is the cause of our disproportionate problems.
Start another thread about affirmative action or stick to the topic at hand!!
Noah The African wrote:So you think that I never heard of the Quakers and abolitionist. You think that I have never heard of the whites that rode buses to the South, some of who died, to help blacks fight for civil rights and equality? The thing is...
many whites that sit on the sideline try to ride the coattail of those whites that proactively sought to help black people. If you think it unfair to you, as a white person, to be linked and labeled from the activities of bad whites, then you cannot be linked or labeled from the activities of good whiteS either.
If the majority of whites decided to recognize and be proactive in offsetting the effects of centuries of discrimination against blacks, inequality would not still be evident today.
The reason for this is because like I said, 70% of Southerners are racist....it may not be racist in the way of "ALL BLACKS SHOULD DIE!" But "I'd prefer the company of whites",but racist nonetheless. So the majority of Southerners are racist, but the people who aren't racist are afraid to speak out because of the negative feedback they will receive from their white brethren.
Another reason whites may not speak out is because they feel, that alot of blacks are racist, and they think "If they hate us, why should I help them?"
Whites have no reason to really dislike black people, child of the light, all we have collectively ever done to white is to want equality. Now, on the other hand, blacks have plenty of empirical reason to not like white people. I am not saying that it is right, but I am saying that you cannot compare the human reaction to being mistreated, with hating a people just because you did not want them to be on par with you economically or socially.
That having been said, I do appreciate your honesty or attempts at it. I bet more than a few people cringed when you made that statement about 70% of white Southerners. The fallacy is that Northern whites are much less racist. Do you remember ever watching a documentary of MLK who said that he had never experienced racism in the South as he had experienced when he marched through Chicago (Cicero Illinois).
Personally, I just feel Southern people have more character and honesty than northern people. Thus, Southern whites generally do not try to hide their sentiments as much as Northern whites do, in regards to race. Northerners put on facades. Many will smile in your face and stab you in your back.
Noah The African wrote:Whites have no reason to really dislike black people, child of the light, all we have collectively ever done to white is to want equality. Now, on the other hand, blacks have plenty of empirical reason to not like white people. I am not saying that it is right, but I am saying that you cannot compare the human reaction to being mistreated, with hating a people just because you did not want them to be on par with you economically or socially.
That having been said, I do appreciate your honesty or attempts at it. I bet more than a few people cringed when you made that statement about 70% of white Southerners. The fallacy is that Northern whites are much less racist. Do you remember ever watching a documentary of MLK who said that he had never experienced racism in the South as he had experienced when he marched through Chicago (Cicero Illinois).
Personally, I just feel Southern people have more character and honesty than northern people. Thus, Southern whites generally do not try to hide their sentiments as much as Northern whites do, in regards to race. Northerners put on facades. Many will smile in your face and stab you in your back.
One thing whites can be a little resentful towards blacks about is the constant accusations of racism.
MLK never experienced racism in the south? Where was he assassinated again? was it Minnesota? or maybe it was Vermont? I'm not quite sure.
Quote:If you think it unfair to you, as a white person, to be linked and labeled from the activities of bad whites, then you cannot be linked or labeled from the activities of good whiteS either.
Why not, what do you know about me? What do you know about what I have done or not done? I don't need to ride on anyones coatails, bad or good. You see I live in reality where there are plenty of colours and shades of grey. I don't need the pure black and white blinders you wear.
Cause nothing ever fits into those molds. Ever.
But does that compare resenting people for over 200 years of slavery, 100 years of apartied, lyncings, castrations, economic deprivation, racial degradation...ect?... and 30 years of pretending none of it ever happened and that all our current problems are the resulte of lazyness and having babies out of wedlock?
Hey, whites could have avoided being seen as racist...if they were not so busy being racist. You just said that 70% of whites in the South are racist and you STILL think whites should have reason to resent being called racist....PLEASE!
Noah The African wrote:But does that compare resenting people for over 200 years of slavery, 100 years of apartied, lyncings, castrations, economic deprivation, racial degradation...ect?... and 30 years of pretending none of it ever happened and that all our current problems are the resulte of lazyness and having babies out of wedlock?
Hey, whites could have avoided being seen as racist...if they were not so busy being racist. You just said that 70% of whites in the South are racist and you STILL think whites should have reason to resent being called racist....PLEASE!
I'm not comparing the 2, The suffering of blacks has been immense. I'm saying that the "good" whites should not be facing accusations of racism from every which way. And our racist past is not being ignored. It is one of the most well covered and detailed topics in the schools. In my opinion the current problem with blacks is a lack of education. Many blacks drop out of high school or bypass college for the promise of fast cash in crime.
All racist problems are NURTURE AND NATURE, no matter who practices it. IT'S NOT ONLY A BLACK PROBLEM. Get over it; you are not going to change the bigots with your kind of 'discussion.' It's a human condition that's going to remain long after we are gone.
Hey, did anyone see 'Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back'? Noah reminds me of the Chris Rock character.
Yeah, the white man stole the idea for "Sesame Street" it was gonna be NWP, Niggers With Puppets.....or something like that.
Has anyone ever read the Charles Barkley Bio "I May Be Wrong, But I Doubt It"?
Barkley has some of the best views on racism I've ever heard....He is a King!
"Black, White, Green, or Purple.......If you are racist you are ignorant."
2Noah The African[/u] I have never assumed that problems of Black people stemmed from their nature. Please, do not make assumptions on my behalf.
But, IMHO, the USA is a country of equal opportunities for each its citizen, and if a person has both abilities and motivation to succeed, he/she succeeds, regardless of his/her origin.
Irish immigrants arrived in the USA in the middle of 19th century without a penny in their pockets. They were not slaves, but they got on the initial stage of their naturalization a great deal of discrimination (they are Catholics, while the establishment at that time was completely Protestant), they were hired for doing hard and dirty jobs, they often were underpaid, but by means of industriousness and perseverance they became a part of the U.S. middle and upper middle class. The same thing refers to another groups of immigrants: Italians, Jews, Poles, Asians, etc.
As far as I see, you are concerned with social progress of the Black community. But why not to try another way: to found a public organization that will send its volunteers to the underprivileged Black urban neighborhoods, and they will promote education among teenagers; to raise funds and to help to those that have economic problems preventing them from completion of studies; to cooperate with police in elimination of teenage gangs and drug pushers (of any race and origin) that involve young Black kids into criminal activities. I am sure that both Black and White citizens would support such an organization and donate money in its favor. And the more well-educated young Blacks enter the job market, the more efficient will be the social progress of the community, and more nasty and unfair stereotypes will become bygones.
Child got that quote spot on.
The bottom line is that none of you offer an offset to the effects of past and present racism against black people. Past and present racism against blacks have has made success in America more difficult for blacks relatives to whites. If people are competing in a race and some have more hurdles in their lane of life than others, then obviously those who have fewer hurdles will advance farther faster.
Nearly all of you can recognize the mistreatment of black people, but none of you can offer an offset that would restore racial equilibrium. In fact, regardless of how you like to see yourselves, if you are anti-offsetting these issues and problems, then you are pro-maintaining these issues and problems (black inferiority of conditions/ white superiority of condition), which makes you racist. THATS THE BOTTOM LINE HERE that makes you complicit ! You can rationalize it all you want, but at the end of the day, your beliefs promote the sustaining of white supremacy of conditions over blacks.
To suggest a solution for blacks that is internal to black people is to suggest that the problem is internal. It is funny that you all seem to think you have novel ideas to offer black people in regards to how to rise up out of inferiority of conditions. The question is why you all assume that these ideas have not been attempted. Why do you feel that you have to tell black people to “Work hard”? Why do you feel that you have to tell black people to “Get an education”? Do you all feel that this is some revolutionary new approach that child like black minds have never thought of? The reality is that there is NOTHING that you can suggest that has not already been attempted.
If the solution to black problems are internal, then that suggest that the problem has been internal all along.
So,............one more time. What do YOU propose????
Good morning minister Noah...how goes the struggle?
