7
   

Hitler DNA Tests Show He Likely Had Jewish, African Roots, Daily Mail Says

 
 
Foofie
 
  0  
Reply Mon 30 Aug, 2010 08:39 am
@Sentience,
Sentience wrote:


Also: Generally, Jews bred with Jews, Muslims Muslims, etc.


Duh!
talk72000
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Aug, 2010 12:18 pm
@Foofie,
In the project "The Human Family Tree" by National Geographic a Muslim Turk found out he has Jewish roots. He was puzzled and there were two black mem in the project whose male ancestors came from Europe. They were grouped with the Europeans even though they looked black. This would the case where the white slave master had either affairs or raped the black slave maids.

http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/channel/human-family-tree/

Quote:
E1b1b seems to represent a late-Pleistocene migration from North Africa to Europe over the Sinai Peninsula in Egy


Quote:
E1b1b and E1b1b1 are quite common amongst Afro-Asiatic speakers. The linguistic group and E1b1b1 may have dispersed together from the region of origin of this language family.[12][13][14] Amongst populations with an Afro-Asiatic speaking history, a significant proportion of Jewish male lineages are E1b1b1 (E-M35).[15] Haplogroup E1b1b1, which accounts for approximately 18%[3] to 20%[16][17] of Ashkenazi and 8.6%[18] to 30%[3] of Sephardi Y-chromosomes, appears to be one of the major founding lineages of the Jewish population.[19][Note 6]


0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Aug, 2010 12:41 pm
Every human on this planet has "African roots."
talk72000
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Aug, 2010 01:08 pm
@cicerone imposter,
We already know that but the E1b1b Haplogroup that shows North African and Jewish roots. I think the journalist wanted to show Hitler's hatred for Jews and Africans was unfounded as he himself was one of them.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Aug, 2010 03:53 pm
@talk72000,
I just tried to set the record straight for any race or culture who believes they are superior to their fellow man. It's a stupid idea based on ignorance, and feelings of superiority.
talk72000
 
  2  
Reply Mon 30 Aug, 2010 03:57 pm
@cicerone imposter,
There is no such thing as race. The environmental factors, diet and geography dictate how our genes will switch on and of thus giving an outward appearance suited to the environmental setting. Over time under similar conditions everyone will look alike.

It is lack of scientific knowledge that led to many horrors such as gods demanding sacrificial human hearts such as the Mayans' beliefs,etc.
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Aug, 2010 08:40 pm
@talk72000,
talk72000 wrote:

We already know that but the E1b1b Haplogroup that shows North African and Jewish roots. I think the journalist wanted to show Hitler's hatred for Jews and Africans was unfounded as he himself was one of them.


Well, in my opinion, Hitler could have been 100% Jewish, but since he identified himself as part of the "Aryan" concept, it would not matter. In my opinion again, Hitler knew that Jews and their culture would not "fit into" the Third Reich's new world order. The Third Reich, in utilizing slave labor, for example, was not something Jews could accept, having the belief that they had been slaves in Egypt in ancient times. So, Jews were just unable to be part of the Third Reich. The racist propaganda against Jews was just a way to make the population ultimately accept the Final Solution, in my opinion. And, the fact that enough Zyclon-B gas was found in the concentration camps, at the end of the war, for killing another 20 million people, meant that Jews were only "#1" on the elimination list, in my opinion. There were many people that were living on land that ethnic Germans would have replaced.

It does not matter if Hitler was Jewish, or not. I recently read at a science website that 20% of Spaniards have a Jewish ancestor in the last 500 years. I wonder what that percentage would be in the German population. But, let us not go there, so nice Germans do not have to feel uncomfortable.
talk72000
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Aug, 2010 02:50 pm
@Foofie,
E1b1b is a large group and might not all be Jews. Jews are only a part of the E1b1b Haplogroup. Judaism only started with Abraham around 2,000 BC i.e. 4,000 years ago while E1b1b Haplogroup migrated to southern Europe 9,000 years ago from the Middle East. The E1b1b that moved to Europe wouldn't be Jewish as it is a religion but Jews chose to make it racial with their lineage being observed and records kept.

Quote:
The ancestors of the E1b1b haplogroup probably lived in the horn of Africa (present-day Somalia) during the last Ice Age and moved into southern Europe via the Middle East during what's called the "Neolithic migration" around 9,000 years ago. The frequency of E1b1b in northern Europe and the British Isles is very low, although it does show up occasionally in people with no known Mediterranean ancestry. Some studies have found clusters of E1b1b in parts of England and especially northern Wales. By contrast, E1b1b is present in about 25% of Silicians and Greeks, and 50%-80% of North Africans. It is particularly common in the Berber people, who live in Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia and Libya. It's also the 2nd most common Y-DNA haplogroup in men of Ashkenazi Jewish descent. The presence of the E1b1b haplogroup in the British population, though relatively rare, is evidence of a past migration of people from southern Europe, possibly soldiers and settlers who arrived during the Roman occupation of Britain in the first three centuries A.D.


The point is that Hitler shared the same characteristics as Jews and Africans whom he despised.

http://www.moonzstuff.com/dna/haplo.html
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Aug, 2010 11:21 pm
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:
I wonder what that percentage would be in the German population. But, let us not go there, so nice Germans do not have to feel uncomfortable.


Look it up - most is online.

Besides that: how many nice Germans do you know out of the more than 80 million still living here? And how many not so nice? And why would the not so nice Germans feel comfortable?
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Sep, 2010 09:43 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Foofie wrote:
I wonder what that percentage would be in the German population. But, let us not go there, so nice Germans do not have to feel uncomfortable.


Look it up - most is online.

Besides that: how many nice Germans do you know out of the more than 80 million still living here? And how many not so nice? And why would the not so nice Germans feel comfortable?


I am implying that "most Germans are nice." "Nice" being a synonym for "good German." And, "good German" being the term used to refer to those Germans that were happy to rid themselves of the Nazis, and embrace western democracy, and today are allies of the U.S. in spirit.

But, even though Germans are "nice," how many would applaud finding out that they have Jewish ancestry from pre-Christian Germany? So, my point was, "let us not go there, so nice Germans do not have to feel uncomfortable."

In my opinion, few Brits would care if they found out that there was a Jewish ancestor in their family tree. Few Americans would care today, I believe. I have to wonder how many Germans would care, since that relates to my thoughts whether Germans have really transcended the obsession with their German pedigree that brings visions of Wagnerian opera heros?


plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Sep, 2010 09:48 am
@Foofie,
Of course, you do know that Britain, like Spain, expelled Jews.
plainoldme
 
  2  
Reply Wed 1 Sep, 2010 10:00 am
@Foofie,
In re: Wagnerian Opera heroes

These were based on folk heroes, late Norse mythology and literary epics. Some of that material has Celtic analogs. In fact, there is a debate among scholars whether the word "iron" is of Celtic or Germanic origin because the two groups lived in each other's back pockets for so long.

Wagner himself was anti-semitic and did much to demonize Mendelsshon because he was a Jew but Mahler, himself a Jew, held Wagner in high esteem.

You might find this excerpt from Wiki helpful:

Some biographers have suggested that antisemitic stereotypes are also represented in Wagner's operas. The characters of Mime in the Ring, Sixtus Beckmesser in Die Meistersinger, and Klingsor in Parsifal are sometimes claimed as Jewish representations, though they are not explicitly identified as such in the libretto. Moreover, in all of Wagner's many writings about his works, there is no mention of an intention to caricature Jews in his operas; nor does any such notion appear in the diaries written by Cosima Wagner, which record his views on a daily basis over a period of eight years.

Despite his very public views on Jews, throughout his life Wagner had Jewish friends, colleagues and supporters. In his autobiography, Mein Leben, Wagner mentions many friendships with Jews, referring to that with Samuel Lehrs in Paris as "one of the most beautiful friendships of my life."
The topic of Wagner and the Jews is further complicated by allegations, which may have been credited by Wagner himself, that he himself was of Jewish descent, via his supposed father Geyer. In reality, Geyer was not of Jewish descent, nor were either of Wagner's official parents. References to Wagner's supposed 'Jewishness' were made frequently in cartoons of the composer in the 1870s and 1880s, and more explicitly by Friedrich Nietzsche in his essay The Wagner Case, where he wrote 'a Geyer (vulture) is almost an Adler (eagle)'. (Both 'Geyer' and 'Adler' were common Jewish surnames.)

Some biographers have asserted that Wagner in his final years came to believe in the racialist philosophy of Arthur de Gobineau, and according to Robert Gutman, this is reflected in the opera Parsifal.Other biographers such as Lucy Beckett believe that this is not true. Wagner showed no significant interest in Gobineau until 1880, when he read Gobineau's An Essay on the Inequality of the Human Races. Wagner had completed the libretto for Parsifal by 1877, and the original drafts of the story date back to 1857. Wagner's writings of his last years indicate some interest in Gobineau's idea that Western society was doomed because of miscegenation between "superior" and "inferior" races.

Houston Stewart Chamberlain, who greatly admired Wagner's work and married Wagner's daughter, Eva, some years after the composer's death, expanded on Gobineau's and Wagner's ideas in his 1899 book The Foundations of the Nineteenth Century a work proclaiming the superiority of Aryan races. In his old age, Chamberlain became a supporter of Adolf Hitler who visited Chamberlain and attended his funeral in 1927.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Sep, 2010 10:05 am
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:

But, even though Germans are "nice," how many would applaud finding out that they have Jewish ancestry from pre-Christian Germany? So, my point was, "let us not go there, so nice Germans do not have to feel uncomfortable."

In my opinion, few Brits would care if they found out that there was a Jewish ancestor in their family tree. Few Americans would care today, I believe. I have to wonder how many Germans would care, since that relates to my thoughts whether Germans have really transcended the obsession with their German pedigree that brings visions of Wagnerian opera heros?


I truly believe that indeed many Germans would be surprised to find a Jewish ancestry from pre-Christian Germany.
So would all historians.

(Same would be for Britain [and Ireland], too.)



There were probably some Jews earlier in Germania superior - but that would be Switzerland nowadays - in about the 4th century. (And in towns north of the Loire or in southern Gaul, 5th/6th centuries.)

The earliest known Jewish person after Germany's Christianisation is a certain 'Isaak' at the court of Charlemagne. Ludwig der Fromme (Louis the Pious) then gave a couple of Jews the privilege for slave trade between Bohemia and Spain ... Well, certainly, from that period onwards, Jews might have mingled with the local population; and will have done so, but I don't think that such was as numerous as it happened in Spain.

Perhaps you've got better sources than the Central Archives for Research on the History of the Jews in Germany (an establishment of the Central Council of Jews in Germany)?

Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Sep, 2010 10:11 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Somewhere in the past, I remember reading that supposedly 30% of adult male Germans have "early male pattern baldness." A percentage of Ashkenazi Jewish males do have "early male pattern baldness." So, the "mixing" went one way? Perhaps.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Sep, 2010 11:01 am
@Foofie,
Jeeze . . . what a mental giant. I have been reliably informed that all humans breathe. I have also observed, and been reasonably informed that all dogs breathe. So, some "mixing" there?
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Sep, 2010 11:32 am
@Foofie,
Indeed, my baldness started when I was in the early 20's. ... And I breathe as well. Totally mixed, I suppose.
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Sep, 2010 10:07 am
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

Jeeze . . . what a mental giant. I have been reliably informed that all humans breathe. I have also observed, and been reasonably informed that all dogs breathe. So, some "mixing" there?


Many ethnicities have a lower frequency of "male pattern baldness" at the early age of 30. So, if Ashkenazi Jews have a sizable percentage of "early" male pattern baldness, just like German males, and this is not evident in Sephardic Jews, nor in Southern Europeans, so it seems justifiable to say Ashkenazi Jews mixed with Germans. And, likely in pre-Christian Germany, before anti-Semitism was promulgated by the Church. What is your point?
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Sep, 2010 10:13 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Indeed, my baldness started when I was in the early 20's. ... And I breathe as well. Totally mixed, I suppose.


No. I do not think you have Jewish DNA. I do think Ashkenazi Jews do have German (aka, Teutonic) DNA, since it was more likely that a Jewish male married a non-Jewish female. The DNA research does claim for a percentage that the Y DNA of Ashkenazi males comes from the Middle East, and the X DNA comes from a local European female.

http://www.khazaria.com/genetics/abstracts.html
talk72000
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Sep, 2010 12:33 pm
@Foofie,
X Chromosome is inherited from both male and female ancestors. The MtDNA or mitochodria would be the exclusive female inheritance. Males have X -Y chromosomes while females have X-X chromosomes.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Sep, 2010 01:44 pm
@Foofie,
You have a series of unsubstantiated assertions, there, Bubba. My point is that you have not established any reasonable basis for believing in the "mixing" to which you refer. This is a cause and effect fallacy. Just because pattern baldness appears in two different populations does not constitute evidence that the appearance of it one of the populations is evidence of "mixing" with the other population showing the same trait. And in fact, it is very likely an case of the fallacy of ignoring a common cause--that the appearance of pattern baldness in one population is caused in the same way in the other population, without the "mixing." You simply have no case, which, with you, is par for the course. And that is my point.
 

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