Do you believe all religions are truly one and the same?

Frank,

By "buying out" I mean sacrificing the potential benefits of conformity. In some religions (e.g. orthodox Judaism) dissenters can even be mourned as though dead. I acknowledge that here I am taking group membership as the central issue as opposed to "personal belief" and this can lead to a discussion of the funtional equivalence of "religion" with "nationalism" (a point often made by spiritual figures such as Krishnamurti in discussion of the causes of conflict). Your own "agnostic stance" tends to be socially neutral as though "belief" was a matter of "intellectual choice". For many, due to accident of birth, this is surely not the reality.

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truth
Point well taken, Fresco. To attribute intellectual choice to a pygmy who believes that playing the sacred flute to awaken the spirits of the forest would be grossly misguided. It only applies where (1) people have a choice among alternate ideologies, and (2), it applies mainly where people either do not feel they will be ostracised by their community or where they feel they can survive such a punishment.

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Oh, Frank - You got it all over the place. Tsk tsk. God is gonna get you for that.

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Frank Apisa wrote:

In the mythology that is your religion, your god does not "lose" a soul -- your god "condemns to Hell" the souls of people who will not suck up to him sufficiently. And in Hell, what your god supposedly does to those condemned souls is subject them to excruciating torture throughout all the rest of eternity.

In the mythology that is your religion, your god is not a loving god -- your god is a goddam raving, sadistic lunatic.

You are correct in one thing, though. The "correct word is sad."

It is very, very sad that people like you actually buy into, and spew, all this nonsense.

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Two, The heart of a person who is stiff necked and hard hearted is burdensome. What more can God do other than take the persons freewill away and leave no choice for the person. He cannot do that because then all mankind would loose their freewill to choose. The wrath of God waxes over like a candle , layer upon layer until there is no more room for patience.
For people who mock God there will be a proverbial slap in the face in the tribulation, to get their attention. His patience will have run out and what remains is his wrath.

Barf!!!

Well put Frank! The more of your posts I read, the more I understand the origination of the term "Frankly spoken". Very Happy

It is totally inconceivable to me where this concept of a "LOVING GOD" comes from. Are these people reading a completely different bible than any the many versions I have read?

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fresco,

If there is anything such as choice, people can eventually grow out of the influence of their "accident of birth" as you call it, and make a choice. Though I think deep seated beliefs are more then a matter of beliefs and choices, i.e. they cannot be defeated by reason or intellect alone if they are based on observations, even if those observations are illusory, i.e. dualism.

Unless reasoning can penetrate and dissolve the illusion, perhaps over an extended period of time, it will be held to be what it appears to be.

That's not to say there can not be a sudden realization or understanding of the truth, but that "sudden understanding" has to transcend reason to include experience. (whether that understanding is the truth or lie that a god or transcendent self exists)

JLNobody, I agree, though there is a choice in your #2, as difficult as it may be.

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I find myself agreeing with Twyvel's comments this time.

I understand where you are coming from in your comments, Fresco, but I think you may be overstating the case for "being born into it" -- although I want to acknowledge the the influences of birth, childhood and adolescence certainly are very, very, very compelling -- and extremely hard to shed.

But it happens all the time -- and I like to think that even in primative cultures, there are individuals who look at all the mumbo-jumbo and shake their heads much the way skeptics do at the mumbo-jumbo of the more sophisticated folks who indulge in such superstitions.

No way I can give evidence for that -- it is, I acknowledge, probably nothing more than wishful thinking, but....it could be! There certainly were skeptics of the primative religions of Egypt, Greece, and Rome!

Does anyone know if studies have been done on this question?

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mesquite wrote:

Well put Frank! The more of your posts I read, the more I understand the origination of the term "Frankly spoken".

It is totally inconceivable to me where this concept of a "LOVING GOD" comes from. Are these people reading a completely different bible than any the many versions I have read?

Thank you, Mesquite.

Welcome to A2K.

It is a great place.

Hope you stick around and participate frequently.

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Frank, it does not boggle my mind why you continue to blaspheme and fight against the knowledge of a Christian God whom you continually insist does not exist. You sphew your hatred at the Christian God and seem to mostly ignore the comments of those with a religious persuasion. (It has been previously explained why Christianity is not a religion). You claim to be an agnostic who simply does not know, out of one side of your mouth. Then talk more like an athesist out the other. Spending your time battling a God/Christ who is God that lives in the spirit of men who willingly receive Him.

An Antichrist would not be needed to opose a Christ if he did not exist. You will no doubt claim not to be an Antichrist, but rather oppose those who are foolish enough to let Him embrace them. That does not compute, because
your god has to express himself by using your demeanor just like Christ
has to (for a short time more), express Himself in our lives. Taking offense to that expression in us is Antichrist. Yes Frank, you serve the god of this world, and with my compliments, you serve him well. I do not have
to prove God/Christ exist. You already have proved He exist or you are insainely fighting something that is none existant. After the below, the forum will be open for you to prove He exist some more.

For we are not wrestling with flesh and blood [contending only with physical opponents], but against the despotisms, against the powers, against [the master spirits who are] the world rulers of this present darkness, against the spirit forces of wickedness in the heavenly (supernatural) sphere.
Ephesians 6:12 - Amplified Version

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This Christian God is a product of religion. All who subscribe to it are subscribing to a religion, like it or not. Anyone familiar with evolution and human history should by the age of six or eight see that God is a construct of the human mind. It surprises me the amount of energy people put into arguing pro and con for something so blatantly imaginary.

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Here's a couple of likely lads

http://mypage.direct.ca/k/kenbinns/light_b2.jpg

The Lightning Brothers, Tjabuinji and Jagtjadbulla - they're responsible for making sure that rain falls. They have also been venerated for tens of thousands of years by indigeous Australians.

There is no counterpart to a single theistic 'figure' in their myths, legends and religion - so why is there no mention of that goat herder's deity in these parts?

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Mr Stillwater wrote:

- so why is there no mention of that goat herder's deity in these parts?

Oh, but there is. Even indigeous Australians, American Indians, etc. could
recognize that even if they didn't know who He was. Sorry you are not able to.

For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what
has been made, so that they (anybody) are without excuse.

Romans 1:20

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edgarblythe wrote:

This Christian God is a product of religion. All who subscribe to it are subscribing to a religion, like it or not. Anyone familiar with evolution and human history should by the age of six or eight see that God is a construct of the human mind. It surprises me the amount of energy people put into arguing pro and con for something so blatantly imaginary.

Want to see God? Look in the eyes of an innocent baby that has to grow
up and be brainwashed by evolution (wich even Darwin eventually began
to doubt before his death) and other such stuff. What is it about what Romans 1:20 (see above post) says that you can't grasp?

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Darwin was under social pressure to doubt what he discovered. At any rate, evolution was not Darwin's concept. He just happened to be the one that figured out a method of connecting the pieces, like a puzzle.
Re: Romans I:20. I can't grasp the leap of faith that requires one to disbelieve in reality.

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edgarblythe wrote:

Re: Romans I:20. I can't grasp the leap of faith that requires one to disbelieve in reality.

I should have guessed as much. Shouldn't that be "believe" instead
"disbelieve" in reality?

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No; I got it right.

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zgreatarteest wrote:

Oh, but there is. Even indigeous Australians, American Indians, etc. could recognize that even if they didn't know who He was. Sorry you are not able to.

Not sure of that, Australia has had a ancient history of burning bushes and not one has been recorded as talking to anyone. So why doesn't this deity pop around to tidy up misconceptions of the religious nature?

Or maybe that may not be too popular with the entities that claim to represent and speak for the invisible cloud being. "Go spoke to you and told you to forgive? Burn the heretic!!".

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Well, here's you answer from an impeachable source:

Quote:

The missionaries are mainly evangelicals who reject talk of Muslims and Christians worshipping the same God.

Franklin Graham, son of Billy Graham and the head of Samaritan's Purse, a big donor to Iraq, has described Islam as a "very evil and wicked religion".

If Christ reappeared tomorrow he'd be too damn busy throwing up to actually say anything...........................

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zgreatarteest wrote:

Frank, it does not boggle my mind why you continue to blaspheme and fight against the knowledge of a Christian God whom you continually insist does not exist.

I insist the Christian God does not exist???

Do you mind actually quoting me saying that!

If you don't find it in this thread, please feel free to use any thread I've been in here or over in Abuzz.

Just find the statement where I insist that your god does not exist!

Quote:

You sphew your hatred at the Christian God and seem to mostly ignore the comments of those with a religious persuasion.

You must be the only person in this forum who thinks I ignore the comments of those with a religious persuasion. I assure you I DO NOT for one second ignore those comments. I relish them. Wait for them with anticipation. Get your head on straight, Z, you are talking through your hat here.

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(It has been previously explained why Christianity is not a religion).

Only to someone in very, very, very deep denial!!!

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You claim to be an agnostic who simply does not know, out of one side of your mouth. Then talk more like an athesist out the other. Spending your time battling a God/Christ who is God that lives in the spirit of men who willingly receive Him.

You do not know what you are talking about. How about some specific quotes instead of all this nonsense of stupid accusations that cannot stand up to inspection.

Not only have I not espoused any atheistic positions, the atheists in this forum will testify that I argue with them every bit as much as with you theistic characters.

Quote:

An Antichrist would not be needed to opose a Christ if he did not exist. You will no doubt claim not to be an Antichrist, but rather oppose those who are foolish enough to let Him embrace them. That does not compute, because your god has to express himself by using your demeanor just like Christ has to (for a short time more), express Himself in our lives. Taking offense to that expression in us is Antichrist. Yes Frank, you serve the god of this world, and with my compliments, you serve him well. I do not have to prove God/Christ exist. You already have proved He exist or you are insainely fighting something that is none existant. After the below, the forum will be open for you to prove He exist some more.

Sounds like you might have been hitting the sauce before writing this bit of drivel, but if you want to have someone help you re-write it so that it is comprehensible, I'll be happy to respond.

Quote:

For we are not wrestling with flesh and blood [contending only with physical opponents], but against the despotisms, against the powers, against [the master spirits who are] the world rulers of this present darkness, against the spirit forces of wickedness in the heavenly (supernatural) sphere. Ephesians 6:12 - Amplified Version

Stay away from Steven King movies. They will keep you up nights.

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Mr Stillwater wrote:

Well, here's you answer from an impeachable source:

Quote:
The missionaries are mainly evangelicals who reject talk of Muslims and Christians worshipping the same God.

Franklin Graham, son of Billy Graham and the head of Samaritan's Purse, a big donor to Iraq, has described Islam as a "very evil and wicked religion".

Even you should be able to see Franklin is right. Islam leaves no doubt
about what they are about. They tell us and show us every day. They
should show you that they are part of what God said would be going on just before He returns.

If Christ reappeared tomorrow he'd be too damn busy throwing up to actually say anything...........................

He tells you what He will be doing if you care to read it in Revelation.
That's the last book of the Christian Bible.

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Frank is right. I do not accept his position any more than yours, zgreat.

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Do you believe all religions are truly one and the same?

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