Do you believe all religions are truly one and the same?

There is an NGO whose basic is the belief in some ethic rules which are the same all over the world: http://www.weltethos.org/dat_eng/index_e.htm

I prefer human beings to be the origin of religion. Humans have all the same basics: they eat, sleep, hate, love, search for ethics and for god. They face basically similar problems in their community and on their search. Thus it is just logical that they establish similar ethics.
"God" is much more diverse than ethics. Maybe because the truth of ethic rules is much more obvious than the truth of some abstract divine theory.

Steve wrote: "Do you believe all religions are truly one and the same? No. Some are harmless, some are not."
Harmless or not harmless doesn't depend on the religion but on its interpretation. In the old days Christianity had sometimes been cruelly fighting its "mission" and Christian Clerics said that weather you're the master or the servant is good-given. Today this is quite different - although Christians read the same old bible texts! Similar with Islam: Some think the islam religion can support democracy, some cling fanatically to old fashioned rules. Although the letters in the Koran stay the same.
Weather god-given or man-made, religion can't be steady. I even think that in every smallest moment of spirituality or spiritual-related tradition, religion is re-god-given or re-man-made. Everybody has to feel, to read, to interpret, to accept nature or God or old wisdom scripts again for himself. Like language style is re-established with every word your tongue forms.

You may say that there are many differences between religions. But isn't it amazing how many similarities there are, too? Isn't it amazing that there IS a religion, no matter what place you're going to?

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Yes all religions are the same in that they all are trying to
to reach for a god/God. CHRISIANITY IS NOT A RELIGION
in that it is all about God reaching for man. This has by no
means stopped man from trying to make a religion out of
Christianity. God makes no
bones about his feeling on religiousness in His Bible. Jesus
spent his whole ministry on this earth (as God in the flesh)
trying to show us and the religious people of His day the
pit that "religion" puts one in who wants to follow the true
living God of the Bible. You cannot reduce Spiritual revelation to carnal understanding on this or any other
spiritual subject. Some of you, I can tell, are miseralbly trying to give it your best shot.

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I believe there's been too many religious discussions on this board recently. I'm bailing.

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Here is an analogy hitting, I hope, the mark.
There were math's of Egypt, Mesopotamia, India, China, Maya.., and expressed forms were different with varying points of stress. They could be unified into modern form of mathematics.

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zgreatarteest wrote:

You cannot reduce Spiritual revelation to carnal understanding on this or any other spiritual subject.

You are quite right.

What one must do instead, is what you are doing -- stubbornly insist that a blind guess is correct.

My questions would be: Why on earth would any supposedly intelligent person do that?

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Frank Apisa wrote:

zgreatarteest wrote:
You cannot reduce Spiritual revelation to carnal understanding on this or any other spiritual subject.

You are quite right.

What one must do instead, is what you are doing -- stubbornly insist that a blind guess is correct.

My questions would be: Why on earth would any supposedly intelligent person do that?

In answer to your question, Frank, it's simply like this. You really shouldn't care what I think. I don't even care what I think, but we all should very much care what God thinks. It is not a blind
guess based on intelligence. If it were we would not need the Word of
God to tell us on what and how to place our faith. It is blind faith, if you
wish to classify it that way. At least it is until you test it. When you test
it according to the Truth, which is God's Word, then you will experience it, but
not in your intelligent brain, but in your spirit where God's Spirit dwell's
provided you have turned your will and life over to Him. You are having
to use your intelligence if you are waving your brain around trying to
figure out where God is and if He exist. I think I have been where you
sound like you are. Trying to rationalize the spiritual with your brain. I
can assure you based on mine and millions of other Christians first efforts
to do that - It won't work.

The world says, "I'll believe it when I see it." and God says, "Believe me
and you will see it." That's why an intelligent person "would do that". Because he is still bouncing around and his intelligence is not reaping
him any real understanding and peace in the matter. Is still taking that
religious approach of working from the outside in. Frank, God don't work
from the outside in. He works from the inside out. Let Him change your
heart and your head will follow. I promise, because I have been there and
done that. I do understand that anything that I try to talk you into someone else will talk you out of. However, if you give God a chance to,
by the Hoy Spirit to work on you.......You won't have to ask the question
you did. What I am saying has stood the test of time and has changed the
lives of millions and millions of people for centuries. Doesn't that one issue
alone reach your intelligence? I can promise that anyone is going to continue to flounder with all this until He gives up "his intelligence" and
opens his heart and lets God show him something. Admitting our minds are
lost in this is the first step. God will do the rest. Then they to can rest in
Him and be led by their hearts instead of their heads. I personally found
out how stupid I was until I started searching with my heart. My life changed from the inside out and I know a thousand times more in my heart than I ever or will ever know in my head. Your head will always
continue to deceive you based on how you feel. Your heart never will do
that. We are truly in the days when God said men's hearts would wax
cold to the truth.

Seest thou a man wise in his own conceit? there is more hope of a fool
than of him. (Proverbs 26:120

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truth
VERY ROUGHLY SPEAKING, there are three kinds of religion: (1) the spirit-nature religions of the most primitive societies, (2) the dualistic mideastern religions that separate man from his God (Islam, Judaism and Christianity), and (3) the nondualistic "mystical" religions that unite Man and God (what Aldous Huxley has called the Perennial Philosophy).

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zgreatarteest wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
zgreatarteest wrote:
You cannot reduce Spiritual revelation to carnal understanding on this or any other spiritual subject.

You are quite right.

What one must do instead, is what you are doing -- stubbornly insist that a blind guess is correct.

My questions would be: Why on earth would any supposedly intelligent person do that?

In answer to your question, Frank, it's simply like this. You really shouldn't care what I think. I don't even care what I think, but we all should very much care what God thinks. It is not a blind
guess based on intelligence. If it were we would not need the Word of
God to tell us on what and how to place our faith. It is blind faith, if you
wish to classify it that way. At least it is until you test it. When you test
it according to the Truth, which is God's Word, then you will experience it, but
not in your intelligent brain, but in your spirit where God's Spirit dwell's
provided you have turned your will and life over to Him. You are having
to use your intelligence if you are waving your brain around trying to
figure out where God is and if He exist. I think I have been where you
sound like you are. Trying to rationalize the spiritual with your brain. I
can assure you based on mine and millions of other Christians first efforts
to do that - It won't work.

The world says, "I'll believe it when I see it." and God says, "Believe me
and you will see it." That's why an intelligent person "would do that". Because he is still bouncing around and his intelligence is not reaping
him any real understanding and peace in the matter. Is still taking that
religious approach of working from the outside in. Frank, God don't work
from the outside in. He works from the inside out. Let Him change your
heart and your head will follow. I promise, because I have been there and
done that. I do understand that anything that I try to talk you into someone else will talk you out of. However, if you give God a chance to,
by the Hoy Spirit to work on you.......You won't have to ask the question
you did. What I am saying has stood the test of time and has changed the
lives of millions and millions of people for centuries. Doesn't that one issue
alone reach your intelligence? I can promise that anyone is going to continue to flounder with all this until He gives up "his intelligence" and
opens his heart and lets God show him something. Admitting our minds are
lost in this is the first step. God will do the rest. Then they to can rest in
Him and be led by their hearts instead of their heads. I personally found
out how stupid I was until I started searching with my heart. My life changed from the inside out and I know a thousand times more in my heart than I ever or will ever know in my head. Your head will always
continue to deceive you based on how you feel. Your heart never will do
that. We are truly in the days when God said men's hearts would wax
cold to the truth.

Seest thou a man wise in his own conceit? there is more hope of a fool
than of him. (Proverbs 26:120

Boy! That was a lot of words.

But you said you were going to answer my question...and you never got around to it.

Why don't you give it a shot?

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Frank Apisa wrote:

zgreatarteest wrote:
Frank Apisa wrote:
zgreatarteest wrote:
You cannot reduce Spiritual revelation to carnal understanding on this or any other spiritual subject.

You are quite right.

What one must do instead, is what you are doing -- stubbornly insist that a blind guess is correct.

My questions would be: Why on earth would any supposedly intelligent person do that?

In answer to your question, Frank, it's simply like this. You really shouldn't care what I think. I don't even care what I think, but we all should very much care what God thinks. It is not a blind
guess based on intelligence. If it were we would not need the Word of
God to tell us on what and how to place our faith. It is blind faith, if you
wish to classify it that way. At least it is until you test it. When you test
it according to the Truth, which is God's Word, then you will experience it, but
not in your intelligent brain, but in your spirit where God's Spirit dwell's
provided you have turned your will and life over to Him. You are having
to use your intelligence if you are waving your brain around trying to
figure out where God is and if He exist. I think I have been where you
sound like you are. Trying to rationalize the spiritual with your brain. I
can assure you based on mine and millions of other Christians first efforts
to do that - It won't work.

The world says, "I'll believe it when I see it." and God says, "Believe me
and you will see it." That's why an intelligent person "would do that". Because he is still bouncing around and his intelligence is not reaping
him any real understanding and peace in the matter. Is still taking that
religious approach of working from the outside in. Frank, God don't work
from the outside in. He works from the inside out. Let Him change your
heart and your head will follow. I promise, because I have been there and
done that. I do understand that anything that I try to talk you into someone else will talk you out of. However, if you give God a chance to,
by the Hoy Spirit to work on you.......You won't have to ask the question
you did. What I am saying has stood the test of time and has changed the
lives of millions and millions of people for centuries. Doesn't that one issue
alone reach your intelligence? I can promise that anyone is going to continue to flounder with all this until He gives up "his intelligence" and
opens his heart and lets God show him something. Admitting our minds are
lost in this is the first step. God will do the rest. Then they to can rest in
Him and be led by their hearts instead of their heads. I personally found
out how stupid I was until I started searching with my heart. My life changed from the inside out and I know a thousand times more in my heart than I ever or will ever know in my head. Your head will always
continue to deceive you based on how you feel. Your heart never will do
that. We are truly in the days when God said men's hearts would wax
cold to the truth.

Seest thou a man wise in his own conceit? there is more hope of a fool
than of him. (Proverbs 26:120

Boy! That was a lot of words.

But you said you were going to answer my question...and you never got around to it.

Why don't you give it a shot?

Yes, Frank, I answered your question. I agree that it was
a case of overkill. Your problem with thinking I did not answer your question lies here:

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit
of God: they are follishness unto him: neither can he know
them, because they are spiritually discerned. (1 Corinthians
2:14)

Poeple like you, as I had to, have to get into some really
deep doo doo before you look within. There are no agnostics, to speak of, when death looks them in the eye.
Sorry, Frank, but I've given it my shot without getting into
that intellectual dead end street you're on. I have been there and don't care to be "like a dog returning to his vomit".

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zgreatarteest wrote:

Yes, Frank, I answered your question. I agree that it was
a case of overkill. Your problem with thinking I did not answer your question lies here:

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit
of God: they are follishness unto him: neither can he know
them, because they are spiritually discerned. (1 Corinthians
2:14)

Well, you didn't really -- but let's not quibble.

Quote:

Poeple like you, as I had to, have to get into some really
deep doo doo before you look within. There are no agnostics, to speak of, when death looks them in the eye.

Yeah, "people like you" think that if only I were as terrified of the unknown as you -- I also would pretend to love some god or another.

I've already looked death in the face, Z, when I went to the mattresses with lymphoma a few years back. At the bottom, I was down to 114 pounds -- and my wife and I had pretty much said our good-byes. It was, we thought, a matter of just waiting out the last few days or weeks!

Luckily, it didn't happen.

But I was wheeled into an operating room on three occasions during the ordeal; I faced chemo and radiation treatment; I lost all of my taste buds (a horror for an Italian addicted to food); and I ended up looking like an extra from Schindler's List...

...AND NEVER FOR ONE SECOND DID I EVEN CONSIDER SUCKING UP TO ANY GODS.

I never prayed; I never questioned my agnosticism; I never flinched for a second.

Some of us, Z, are just not as afraid of the unknown as you are.

And I hate to break this to you -- but Z, there are agnostics and atheists in foxholes. You theists want to rationalize your silly dread by supposing otherwise -- but you are all wet on that TOO!

Quote:

Sorry, Frank, but I've given it my shot without getting into
that intellectual dead end street you're on. I have been there and don't care to be "like a dog returning to his vomit".

You may want to inflate your ego by supposing you've been where I am -- and that is no skin off my nose, although anyone reading between the lines of your efforts here probably gets as big a laugh from the notion as I did.

In any case, I think you've made a wise choice abandoning intellect in favor of blind, unquestioning belief.

Might as well play to your strong suit!

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zgreatarteest wrote: wrote: ?????????

Abraham Lincon wrote: " he can compress the most words into the smallest idea of any man I know"

Was he talking about you zgreatarteest ?

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lightfoot wrote:

zgreatarteest wrote: wrote: ?????????

Abraham Lincon wrote: " he can compress the most words into the smallest idea of any man I know"

Was he talking about you zgreatarteest ?

Could be, you'll have to ask Abe. The smallest ideas do have the
greatest potential. Look what God did with just a thought.

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I don't know if most religions are the same, but the longer I live the more I think all religious people are the same.......

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There is PROOF!
Look guys. There is proof of the existence of God (Creator). And it is not so complicated that no one can understand. Here it is.
When we look around us at everything we can sense one factor is shared by these things, and that is that they are all limited. By limited we mean that they have restrictions, a starting point and an ending point, and they all have definable attributes, i.e. they are finite. Man is born and he dies. There is no one alive who will not die. During his life span, he will grow to a certain shape, height and volume. The universe is defined as all the celestial bodies and planets. All these objects have a certain mass, shape, volume and so on. The life span of a star may be very long, but a point in time will come when it will cease to exist.
The universe is large, but is still a 'finite' space. NO scientist could ever prove using hard facts that the universe has no bounds. In fact when they say the universe arose from a Big Bang and is expanding they inherently admit it is finite in size, otherwise it could not expand! There is nothing in reality which is unlimited. No matter how hard we try, man is unable to find anything unlimited around him. All he can perceive is the finite and limited.
A further attribute of everything around us is that they are all needy and dependent in order to continue existing. They are not self sustaining or independent. Man has needs. He has to satisfy in order to survive. He has organic needs. Man must eat and drink if he is to survive. If he does not he will die. We see need and dependency in plants and animals. They depend On other parts Of the food chain for their existence. The water cycle is dependent On the sun, which is dependent on the laws of the galaxies and of burning mass, and SO on... Nothing man can perceive is self-subsistent. So things exist, but do not have the power of existence. They cannot control when they die or when other bodies die. There is one fact that emerges from all this. If something is limited and finite, and does not have the power to be self-subsistent then it must have been created.
Applying this to everything we see will bring us to a conclusion. If everything in the universe is created because it has not the power of being in existence on its own, and is finite and limited, then there must be a Creator. This Creator by contrast has to be unlimited and not needy and dependent on anything to bring It into, or sustain It's existence.
The universe; the sum of finite and dependent objects is finite and dependent -but dependent on what? Dependent on something to start and sustain life, something to plan and develop life. The only rational and intellectual solution to the question Of creation is that there is a Creator which has accounted for all that we see and perceive. Rational tells us that nothing can be created without a creator. Ultimately there must be a Creator who is unlimited in every aspect.

Conclusion:
Since everything in the universe is limited, it must mean that it didnt exist at one point. Thus it had to be created. God did it.

I did not write this. But I have taken a class which explained it very similarly. If u have any questions, ofcourse reply.

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It is much more reasonable to hold that the Universe is infinite, without beginnings, or endings. While we may appear to begin in birth, our actual origins are in the remainders of the first stars and debris of the Big Bang. Though we do not know what went before that apparent singularity, many of the leading theorists believe that the Big Bang was the result of the Big Crunch; the collapse of an earlier universe. According to this view, we are only one in an endless series of pulses.

There is no "out-side" to the universe, rather space and time appear as a result of the interaction of insubstantial multi-dimensional fields at the Plank Level and below. So far as we can tell very little, perhaps no mass, exists. Electrons, Protons and neutrons are more nearly empty fields that exhibit various properties, some of which we regard as mass, and elements.

If the Universe is infinite, then the First Cause arguement fails. A few years ago it appeared that there wasn't enough "stuff" in the known universe to slow and reverse universal expansion. Evidence seemed to suggest that perhaps the universe was finite. The much more common view today is that most of the universe consists of Dark Matter, and that the properties of Dark Matter are every bit as strange as quantum physics and theory. Dark Matter is thought to be something like a glue that is omnipresent, and that by some mechanism is actually increasing the rate of universal expansion. All of the old models of the universe are currently under suspicion, but the smart money is still on an infinite universe rather than a finite universe.

Actually, there are no proofs for God's existence that are likely to go unchallenged when subjected to logical scrutiny. We can not even prove that we exist. Descartes "I think, therefore I am", is a popular proof of existence of thought, but not necessarily of existence beyond that. What is the ego, and is it really separate from the mirage we mistake for reality?

Let us suppose, however, that the universe is finite with a beginning, borders, and an end. Why do you suppose that the universe is the creation of a single God, rather than by some other mechanism? It seems just as reasonable that such a universe was pasted together by a divine committee. Even if a finite universe were created by a single god, why suppose that the Creator is the god of Abraham and his heirs? Why might not the universe be the creation of Ummah-Potas, or some other deity.

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RIGHT ON QKid

For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His
eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being
understood through what has been made, so that they are
without excuse. ("they" being unbelievers)
Romans 1:20

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As I said to QKid last time he posted that nonsense:

"Conclusion: Since everything in the universe is limited, then it must mean that it didnt exist at one point. Therefore it had to be created by a Creator (God)."

That is a series of fallacies.

"Since everything in the universe is limited, then it must mean that it didnt exist at one point."

This is false.

"Therefore it had to be created by a Creator (God)."

This is also false.

Now your God may well have created the universe but your statement is not logical.

"Must mean" and "therefore" are used fecklessly. Both are false statements, furthermore you start with a premise you do not prove "everything is limited".

That is a paradox that you can't prove. That you call it "proof"is only evidence of your standards for "proof".

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Excuse me but I never found anything in the Bible that
was logical or could be proved except by experiencing
it.

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God,
for they are foolishness unto him: NEITHER CAN HE KNOW THEM,
because THEY ARE SPIRITUALLY DISCERNED.

I Corinthian 2:14

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That's nice, but I was addressing the person who is repeatedly touting his/her "proof".

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Craven de Kere wrote:

That's nice, but I was addressing the person who is repeatedly touting his/her "proof".

Excuse me again.

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Do you believe all religions are truly one and the same?

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