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Was it a war crime when US nuked Hiroshima & Nagasaki?

 
 
Tobruk
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Jul, 2004 02:37 am
ossobuco wrote:
No.


So what were they suppose to do? Drop candycanes?
0 Replies
 
MyOwnUsername
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Jul, 2004 06:00 am
So what were they suppose to do?

Nothing.

Nothing that includes civilians. Otherwise only difference between two sides is that, in this particular example, "Japanese started it". I don't think it's okay to behave like Nazi if you are fighting against Nazis.
Of course, I am not talking about unfortunate and not planned civilian victims of war, but about planned killing of civilians.
0 Replies
 
Tobruk
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Jul, 2004 06:28 am
MyOwnUsername wrote:
So what were they suppose to do?

Nothing.

Nothing that includes civilians. Otherwise only difference between two sides is that, in this particular example, "Japanese started it". I don't think it's okay to behave like Nazi if you are fighting against Nazis.
Of course, I am not talking about unfortunate and not planned civilian victims of war, but about planned killing of civilians.


You do know that it was 1945 not 2004? Laser guided bombs and the like hadn't been invented yet.
0 Replies
 
MyOwnUsername
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Jul, 2004 06:33 am
I do know that it was 1945, but I also know that Dresden was planned killing of civilians - there was no intention to hurt German military. By the way, I am mentioning Dresden since this is thread about possible crime(s) of Allies, and we all know how many crimes Nazis committed.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Jul, 2004 06:40 am
There is a separate Dresden thread, MOU . . .
0 Replies
 
MyOwnUsername
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Jul, 2004 06:54 am
Sorry, I haven't noticed it
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Jul, 2004 06:55 am
S'ok . . . i'll go find it for you . . . you might be interested . . .
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Jul, 2004 06:58 am
This isn't actually specific to Dresden, but you might find this interesting:

Was Allied bombing of Germany Jan - April 1945 a war crime?
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Jul, 2004 07:05 am
I have the feeling that some of you people believe war can be and is fought by throwing marshmallows at each other. Try a little realism, Whether it be bullets, artillery shells, conventional bombs or nuclear weapons. War is hell, people get killed both military and civilian.
With that as a prime mover the UN was born. Unfortunately it has been a total failure in that regard. It cannot overcome the aggressive nature and greed of man.
0 Replies
 
MyOwnUsername
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Jul, 2004 07:08 am
au1929 - Yeah, especially I have that feeling after being for four years in one pretty recently.

Once again - I am NOT talking about civilians that are unfortunate victims of war, but rather about PLANNED killing of civilians.

Setanta, thanks...reading it (I doubt that I will make it alive after three months, but it's a good reading)
0 Replies
 
dagmaraka
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Jul, 2004 07:24 am
Apologies if that was mentioned before - haven't had time to read posts from before this page... but has anyone seen The Fog of War - the documentary with Robert McNamara? There he formulates 11 lessons from wars he has lived. One of them is: "Proportionality should be a guideline in war". He has directly spoken of bombings in Japan and expressed a belief that had the Allies lost in the WWII, they would have been tried as war criminals. He also spoke of Vietnam and use of agent Orange he authorized (although in the movie he pretends not to remember that part) - he claims that had he known about Geneva Conventions (how could he not have known?!!), Vietnam would have unfolded differently. I went to the screening followed by a discussion with Errol Morris (movie director) and Samantha Power (author of 'A Problem From Hell: America and the Age of Genocide') and they recounted the story of McNamara visiting the International War Crimes Tribunal for former Yugoslavia and he was absolutely fascinated, beyond himself, what sorts of things are considered war crimes. He claims to have seen the Geneva Convention there for the first time!
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Jul, 2004 07:33 am
au1929 wrote:
War is hell, people get killed both military and civilian.
With that as a prime mover the UN was born. Unfortunately it has been a total failure in that regard. It cannot overcome the aggressive nature and greed of man.


The Moscow Declaration (1943) were a provision for a postwar international organization treatment of war crimes. They were followed by the Dumbarton Oaks Conference (Aug. 21-Oct. 7, 1944),
where representatives of China, the Soviet Union, the United States, and the United Kingdom formulated proposals for a world organization that became the basis for the United Nations. Which then led to founding of the UN, aiming - according to it's Charta -
"to save succeeding generations from the scourge of war,…to reaffirm faith in fundamental human rights,…to establish conditions under which justice and respect for the obligations arising from treaties and other sources of international law can be maintained, and to promote social progress and better standards of life in larger freedom".
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Jul, 2004 10:37 am
dagmaraka wrote:
I went to the screening followed by a discussion with Errol Morris (movie director) and Samantha Power (author of 'A Problem From Hell: America and the Age of Genocide') and they recounted the story of McNamara visiting the International War Crimes Tribunal for former Yugoslavia and he was absolutely fascinated, beyond himself, what sorts of things are considered war crimes. He claims to have seen the Geneva Convention there for the first time!


I heard an excellent interview of the maker of this film, which included sound track of McNamara speaking, although not his contentions about the Geneva Conventions--i'e not seen the film. If that is, in fact, the truth, then he was criminally negligent in his performance of his duties as Secretary of Defense, and i do mean criminally so. This is an especially disgusting statement by him, given what he recounted of his discussions with Curtiss LeMay, including LeMay's remarks about war crimes.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Jul, 2004 10:53 am
There's the NYT-article (by Samantha Fox) still on the web [as PDF!]):

War and Never Having to Say You're Sorry
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Jul, 2004 10:55 am
Take the space out of your UBB code, Walter, else the link won't work . . . here, i'll do it . . .

War and Never Having to Say You're Sorry[/b]
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Jul, 2004 10:57 am
Thanks - you can be so helpful and charming ...
.... sometimes.


And on 4th of J. even both at the same moment :wink:
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Jul, 2004 11:01 am
Well, Boss, the guy who was going to come over has not done so, and the other guy who assured me we could go find a pleasant picnic spot which was not crowded ( Rolling Eyes ) has not called either. So i'm thinking i'll go visit a friend, who, like me, has no illusions about how crowded parks and other public venues will be today.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Jul, 2004 01:18 pm
Walter Hinteler wrote:
There's the NYT-article (by Samantha Fox) ...


Samantha Power, author of the article at discussion:

http://ksgfaculty.harvard.edu/faculty/images/bio%5C2700.jpg
Quote:
Samantha Power
Lecturer in Public Policy
Carr Center for Human Rights Policy
Eliot-217
Tel: 617-495-3140
Fax: 617-495-4297
email: [email protected]
Assistant: Hillary Schrenell (617-495-0743)


Samantha Fox, emminently worthy of discussion (if you go for that sort of thing ... and she'll go for just about anything Twisted Evil )

http://www.askmen.com/imagesmusician/2001_aug/samantha_fox/samantha_fox_150.jpg

Sorry; Not the same girl Mr. Green
Quote:
Samantha Fox
why we like her?



Sam Fox not only sang deep, meaningful songs, but she jiggled while doing it...

why is she famous?


Samantha Fox is one of the world's most famous singers. Her song "Touch Me," is instantly recognizable anywhere. Her posters (nude and clothed) are among the most common in any of the world's car garages, and one of the most successful ever.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Jul, 2004 01:24 pm
Embarrassed


I mean, .... I think, well the one Samantha looks .... an the other ...



looks, too :wink:
0 Replies
 
jacko73
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Jul, 2004 05:27 am
Bombing Nagasaki was a war crime. America's display of power to the Russians cost hundreds of thousands of Japanese civilian lives. Anyone who knows anything about the war undertstands that the Americans had already won the battle in the pacific and did not need to drop the atomic bomb. In this sense it is juistifiable to blame both Russia and America for the amount of nuclear arms in the present day
0 Replies
 
 

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