19
   

Was it a war crime when US nuked Hiroshima & Nagasaki?

 
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Sun 26 Apr, 2009 03:56 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:
cicerone imposter wrote:

Hey, David, are you a kike?

No; Y ?


The term "Jap" is racially offensive to Japanese people.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Sun 26 Apr, 2009 03:59 pm
@oralloy,
Some "white" people just like to make themselves feel superior by denigrating minorities. Maybe he belongs to the Nazi party.
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Sun 26 Apr, 2009 04:47 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:
Some "white" people just like to make themselves feel superior by denigrating minorities. Maybe he belongs to the Nazi party.


I don't think he knew the term was racially offensive.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Sun 26 Apr, 2009 05:18 pm
@oralloy,
If he's lived in this country for any span of time, he should know, unless he's been isolated from all the media and stories about discrimination in the US. Maybe he's a ignorant white supremacist.
0 Replies
 
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Apr, 2009 07:11 am
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:

High Seas wrote:
PS Japan, having accepted the informal assurances provided on the status of the emperor, sent word (of course in Japanese) to the Secretary of State which stopped just short of "unconditional surrender"; Truman decided it was good enough, and said so in the formal declaration of his acceptance of the surrender:


The "assurances" we gave Japan was that MacArthur would have the power to depose the Emperor whenever he felt like it.
..............................................................
High Seas wrote:
Truman decided to take it that way - of course the only right thing to do - and that's why he had to refer to that Potsdam declaration; but that's not what the Japanese text said, precisely, though verbatim translations of nuances vary considerably.


Japan told Truman that they accepted all our terms, including the fact that MacArthur would be free to depose the Emperor at will.

It seems reasonable enough to consider it an acceptance of the Potsdam Proclamation.


On the Potsdam declaration, we are agreed. On the informal assurances, you somehow fail to grasp the meaning of "informal", or that by definition the term wouldn't be included in any written guarantee.

Cicerone has better access to Japanese-language sources than I do, but he is correct in urging you to read Gen. MacArthur's memoirs, entitled "Reminiscences", FYI, which confirms what Cicerone and I are both saying - and it's written in English, too!
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Mon 27 Apr, 2009 07:11 am
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:

OmSigDAVID wrote:
cicerone imposter wrote:

Hey, David, are you a kike?

No; Y ?


The term "Jap" is racially offensive to Japanese people.

Logic does not support such an objection; my loyalty is to logic.
Its perfectly OK to use an abbreviation; if I 'd falsely accused them of something bad,
then thay 'd have a well founded complaint.





David
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Mon 27 Apr, 2009 07:21 am
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Some "white" people just like to make themselves feel superior by denigrating minorities.
Maybe he belongs to the Nazi party.

1. I do not feel superior to the Japs.
I acknowledge that many of them r very intelligent n
thay r known for being very industrious.

2. There is no denigration in abbreviation.

3. If I belonged to that party,
then I 'd have been on the side of the Japs.

U have failed to prove your case.
The complaint is dismissed on the merits.



David
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Apr, 2009 09:27 am
@OmSigDAVID,
It's because you are a bonehead who doesn't have the sensitivity of a mule.
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Mon 27 Apr, 2009 09:54 am
@cicerone imposter,
"cicerone imposter" wrote:
Quote:
It's because you are a bonehead
who doesn't have the sensitivity of a mule.


1. I 'd be worse off if I did not have a bone in my head.
I surmise that u don 't.

2. I don 't wanna have the sensitivity of a MULE !
I infer that u DO.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Apr, 2009 10:18 am
@OmSigDAVID,
From Wiki:

Quote:
Jap is an English abbreviation of the word "Japanese." Today it is regarded as an ethnic slur, though English-speaking countries differ in the degree they consider the term offensive. In the United States, Japanese Americans have come to find the term controversial or offensive, even when used as an abbreviation.[1] In the past, Jap was not considered primarily offensive; however, after the events of World War II, the term became derogatory.[2]


I'm Japanese-American, and you think you can think for me? You are an dumbass with no sensitivity.
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Mon 27 Apr, 2009 10:29 am
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

From Wiki:

Quote:
Jap is an English abbreviation of the word "Japanese." Today it is regarded as an ethnic slur, though English-speaking countries differ in the degree they consider the term offensive. In the United States, Japanese Americans have come to find the term controversial or offensive, even when used as an abbreviation.[1] In the past, Jap was not considered primarily offensive; however, after the events of World War II, the term became derogatory.[2]


REGARDLESS of what it says in the Wiki,
some of which is true,
I stand by my reasoning, as posted hereinbefore because I am logically correct.



Quote:

I'm Japanese-American, and you think you can think for me?

No. Even if u were only a Canadian,
I coud not think for u. I lay no claim to telepathy.
It does not work that way, but that is a different topic.



Quote:

You are an dumbass with no sensitivity.

I think I am having a deja vu experience.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Apr, 2009 10:34 am
@OmSigDAVID,
What has "logic" have to do with ethnic slur? That your truth is the only one that counts?
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Apr, 2009 10:44 am
@High Seas,
David and Cicerone - if your exchange of pleasantries is quite over, please remember the thread topic. You may also be interested in this latest neuroscience research, on "neural dehumanization" as measured by fMRI at Princeton:

Quote:
Only the most extreme out-groups, the low-low, receive un-
abashed disliking and disrespect: Groups stereotyped as neither
warm nor competent elicit the worst kind of prejudice"disgust
and contempt"based on perceived moral violations and sub-
sequent negative outcomes that these groups allegedly caused
themselves. Disgust is unique among the emotions predicted by
the SCM because it can target either humans or nonhumans,
making people functionally equivalent to objects. ......

Extreme discrimination reveals the worst kind of prejudice:
excluding out-groups from full humanity.


There is a question whether nuclear weapons would have been dropped on Germans, or even Russians, by people who looked just like them; the Japanese looked different.

Cicerone - the term "kike" is offensive to Jews. "Jap" is just an abbreviation - doesn't rise to the level of insult. So drop it - I know David and I'm sure he spoke not intending any offense.
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Mon 27 Apr, 2009 10:45 am
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

What has "logic" have to do with ethnic slur?
That your truth is the only one that counts?

1) I already EXPLAINED to u
that abbreviation is not denigration. THAT is what logic has to do with ethnic slur.
It shoud not be difficult to understand. THINK . . . just for a few seconds.

2) In the formulation of my judgments and decisions,
truth as I see it is the only one that counts.





David
High Seas
 
  2  
Reply Mon 27 Apr, 2009 10:56 am
@OmSigDAVID,
David - came back to post link to scientific article and found your post keeps me from editing mine, so here is the link:
http://www.nd.edu/~wcarbona/Harris%20and%20Fiske-2006.pdf

Separately, consider that Cicerone was imprisoned in a camp as a child, along with his family, and even though he knows the government apologized and paid compensation to Japanese-Americans, he still has strong feelings about it. Jews have even stronger feelings about getting not simply imprisoned, but also killed, in camps located in countries in which they were citizens. Perhaps both groups met the specs in the linked article, as "not quite human", at the time these camps were operating - or the nuclear weapons dropped on living creatures. An exchange of insults will not lead to any clearer thinking, though, so I hope both you and Cicerone will see this Smile
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Mon 27 Apr, 2009 11:07 am
@High Seas,
High Seas wrote:

David and Cicerone - if your exchange of pleasantries is quite over, please remember the thread topic.
You may also be interested in this latest neuroscience research,
on "neural dehumanization" as measured by fMRI at Princeton:

Quote:
Only the most extreme out-groups, the low-low, receive un-
abashed disliking and disrespect: Groups stereotyped as neither
warm nor competent elicit the worst kind of prejudice"disgust
and contempt"based on perceived moral violations and sub-
sequent negative outcomes that these groups allegedly caused
themselves. Disgust is unique among the emotions predicted by
the SCM because it can target either humans or nonhumans,
making people functionally equivalent to objects. ......

Extreme discrimination reveals the worst kind of prejudice:
excluding out-groups from full humanity.


There is a question whether nuclear weapons would have been dropped on Germans,
or even Russians, by people who looked just like them; the Japanese looked different.

Cicerone - the term "kike" is offensive to Jews.
"Jap" is just an abbreviation - doesn't rise to the level of insult.
So drop it - I know David and I'm sure he spoke not intending any offense.

High Seas:
1. the concepts enunciated in your excerpted quote are alien to my cognition,
so far as the Japs are concerned; i.e., I have no dislike nor disrespect for them,
as I have already indicated hereinbefore,
nor have I ever had occasion to discriminate against them.
I never thought of dehumanizing the Japs.
I think that the Japs are fine, as long as thay speak English clearly.

2. I am certain that we woud have nuked the Germans or the Reds
during the Second and Third World Wars. During the 2nd World War,
the nazis surrendered before we were ready with our nukes.
It woud have been very poor form (and wasteful) to nuke them after thay had surrendered.





David
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Apr, 2009 11:27 am
@OmSigDAVID,
David - my later clarification will have made it obvious that I never thought that you, personally, would be linked to any such behavior. There was more interesting research that came up in that search, though, so here's a second excerpt:

Quote:
Propagandists throughout history have been quick to pick up on the possibilities raised by the blurring of visceral disgust into a weapon for the in-group/out-group border patrol. Nazi propaganda depicted Jews as cockroaches and rats; Hutu instigators denigrated Tutsis as cockroaches during the Rwandan genocide. As with the sight and smell of a dispossessed street person, identifying the enemy with an object of disgust throws up strong emotional barriers to empathy.

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v447/n7146/full/447768a.html
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Apr, 2009 11:46 am
@OmSigDAVID,
David, I am a thinking and feeling human. I have suffered indignities in this country that you will never understand. You don't make any attempt to understand "my" feelings. Your kind of logic is worthless as an argument for ethnic slurs.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Apr, 2009 11:55 am
@cicerone imposter,
WordNet: bonehead

Home > Library > Literature & Language > WordNet
Note: click on a word meaning below to see its connections and related words.

The noun has one meaning:

Meaning #1: these words are used to express a low opinion of someone's intelligence
Synonyms: dunce, dunderhead, numskull, blockhead, lunkhead, hammerhead, knucklehead, loggerhead, muttonhead, shithead, fuckhead
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Mon 27 Apr, 2009 11:58 am
@High Seas,
High Seas wrote:

David - my later clarification will have made it obvious that I never thought that you, personally, would be linked to any such behavior. There was more interesting research that came up in that search, though, so here's a second excerpt:

Quote:
Propagandists throughout history have been quick to pick up on the possibilities raised by the blurring of visceral disgust into a weapon for the in-group/out-group border patrol. Nazi propaganda depicted Jews as cockroaches and rats; Hutu instigators denigrated Tutsis as cockroaches during the Rwandan genocide. As with the sight and smell of a dispossessed street person, identifying the enemy with an object of disgust throws up strong emotional barriers to empathy.

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v447/n7146/full/447768a.html

However true or false those assertions may be,
the fact remains that there is no defamation nor "denigration" in abbreviation of anyone 's name.
If C.I. chooses to refer to "the US" instead of "America" that is perfectly OK.

I have never borne ill will against the Japs.
Their brutality never fell on me nor on any of my friends.

Logically, I have as much right to abbreviate anyone 's name
as I have to say that 2 + 2 = 4.

C.I. 's juvenile experiences have no bearing upon my freedom
to speak in a logically correct fashion, including abbreviations.





David
 

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