Our planet is being destroyed, does anybody care?

@kennethamy,

kennethamy wrote:

What the hell has not killing whales to do with saving the planet?

I can hardly believe that, even you, could feign ignorance enough to present this question as if it were anything other than ridiculous.
Unless, of course, by planet you mean a spinning ball of dirt, rock and iron, devoid of any living function.
In the case that is your understanding, let me clarify the meaning of planet in the present context of this thread.
The planet, called earth, in the context of this thread, is a complex dependency of elements and life forms, from astronauts to zooplankton. All interacting to create the experience we humans so selfishly enjoy.
If , in that context, you still believe we can go around decimating the populations of other species with impunity, perhaps you can tell me just exactly what purpose whales serve that is so unimportant we can decimate their population with said impunity. If you can answer that, I'll gladly seek your nomination for a nobel prize.

In anticipation of your next argument, just how many living functions are we allowed to knock off before the planet earth begins to die?

1 Reply

@wayne,

wayne wrote:

In anticipation of your next argument, just how many living functions are we allowed to knock off before the planet earth begins to die?

Well, Ken's insisting on using the word "planet" in it's literal sense in an attempt to delegitimise the concerns raised - so the answer would be "all of them and it still wouldn't matter because the planet isn't a living organism and therefore cannot die".

He's even using his assumption that "destroying/saving the planet" is a belief held by anyone with concerns for the environment even when that's not their stated belief or stance - for example it was me who mentioned a moratorium on whaling and I didn't suggest it was something that would worry the planet.

But he took it that way anyway because that's his strategy of delegitimisation.

A better question to ask is "to what degree can species loss occur without resulting in a less hospitable world for human life and comfort?" - because that's something that should actually concern people.

The answer then would be that in plenty of niches it has already happened - but it's not a worldwide phenomena because humans enjoy life in so many different niches.

1 Reply

@Dave Allen,

Doesn't mean we shouldn't care about these things, it's a really sad thing to see a polar bear drowning, call me an eco warrior and I'd agree, we should all be. And what about carbon emissions from cars, they're still polluting the atmosphere, we're still doing a lot of damage and some say if it carries on it could be irreversable, we need to stop damaging the/our planet now.

1 Reply

@Caroline,

Caroline wrote:

Doesn't mean we shouldn't care about these things, it's a really sad thing to see a polar bear drowning, call me an eco warrior and I'd agree, we should all be. And what about carbon emissions from cars, they're still polluting the atmosphere, we're still doing a lot of damage and some say if it carries on it could be irreversable, we need to stop damaging the/our planet now.

When have you actually seen a polar bear drown? I hope you don't mean those pictures which prance about on the Internet. You have not, I hope, been taken in by them. I thought that by now everyone above the age of four knew that was part of the production the the environmental propaganda machine. It is one of the prime examples of environmental deceit. And why the credibility of these religious fanatics has been nearly destroyed.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-433170/Global-warmi

1 Reply

@kennethamy,

kennethamy wrote:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-433170/Global-warmi

Ah, the Daily Mail eh?

You'll be citing the National Enquirer next.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1256398/Chinese-grandmother-grows-devil-horns.html

****! She must be a witch!

Or maybe she has a type of wart or something.

caroline wrote:

Doesn't mean we shouldn't care about these things, it's a really sad thing to see a polar bear drowning, call me an eco warrior and I'd agree, we should all be. And what about carbon emissions from cars, they're still polluting the atmosphere, we're still doing a lot of damage and some say if it carries on it could be irreversable, we need to stop damaging the/our planet now.

But we aren't damaging the planet - not really - we are affecting a thin skein of life upon the surface of the planet. 99.9999% of what the planet actually is is entirely unaffected.

1 Reply

@Dave Allen,

Dave Allen wrote:

kennethamy wrote:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-433170/Global-warmi

Ah, the Daily Mail eh?

You'll be citing the National Enquirer next.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1256398/Chinese-grandmother-grows-devil-horns.html

****! She must be a witch!

Or maybe she has a type of wart or something.

caroline wrote:
Doesn't mean we shouldn't care about these things, it's a really sad thing to see a polar bear drowning, call me an eco warrior and I'd agree, we should all be. And what about carbon emissions from cars, they're still polluting the atmosphere, we're still doing a lot of damage and some say if it carries on it could be irreversable, we need to stop damaging the/our planet now.

But we aren't damaging the planet - not really - we are affecting a thin skein of life upon the surface of the planet. 99.9999% of what the planet actually is is entirely unaffected.

No point in attacking the message because you happen not to like the messenger. Have you any reason to think that bit about drowning polar bears is not a fiction? Or are you another one who thinks that polar bears can't swim? But you are right. Even if both the polsr bears and the whales were drowning (and those are equally likely) it would have nothing whatsoever to do with the planet.

3 Replies

@kennethamy,

Of course polar bears drowning has everything to do with the planet, they are drowning because the ice caps are melting which in turn makes the sea rise, are you one of these people who thinks just because it's not effecting you then it's not happening, rather niave I think. And it's not as small as you might think, why on earth would anyone want to scare us with propaganda? You only have to smell petrol fumes to understand they are damaging, how long before the ozone goes if we don't do anything which we aren't. So what's in it for the propagandists then Ken? And by the way I saw a polar bear drowning on a BBC docutmentry who have no sane reason to lie and are subject to liable if they do lie so a reliable source thanks. Why oh why would anyone want to lie plus you can tell petrol is poisonous to the environment, it smells awful.

2 Replies

This is one time when the group who says global warming is a myth needs to be outshouted and voted down. After all, what right have they to put people they don't even know at risk?

1 Reply

@Caroline,

Where do you think we should start Caroline. Those videos of drowning polar bears bring a pang of shame to everybody but those with the hardest of hearts.

But they switch over or off and straightaway go back to what they usually do and that is what is causing the problem. Or so it is said. I'm assuming it is here because it's polite to accept a lady's assumptions in a discussion.

Polar bears won't be saved by being appalled at a video. It is stopping what we do hoping it isn't too late.

And there are happy smiling faces coming on the news to announce that growth has resumed and is exceeding forecasts. I wouldn't be surprised at the cash tills jingling merrily away when the anniversary of the birth of Our Lord next comes round and retailers telling us of their bumper profits.

There's plenty in it for the propagandists though. Not that I'm the sort that thinks they might have thrown the bear in the water themselves to save them looking around the thousands of square miles of freezing ocean for a drowning bear and being too late for the Autumn Schedules.

2 Replies

@Caroline,

Caroline wrote:

Of course polar bears drowning has everything to do with the planet, they are drowning because the ice caps are melting which in turn makes the sea rise, are you one of these people who thinks just because it's not effecting you then it's not happening, rather niave I think. And it's not as small as you might think, why on earth would anyone want to scare us with propaganda? You only have to smell petrol fumes to understand they are damaging, how long before the ozone goes if we don't do anything which we aren't. So what's in it for the propagandists then Ken? And by the way I saw a polar bear drowning on a BBC docutmentry who have no sane reason to lie and are subject to liable if they do lie so a reliable source thanks. Why oh why would anyone want to lie plus you can tell petrol is poisonous to the environment, it smells awful.

But they are not (repeat, not) drowning. Why don't you look it up? Unless you just want to believe it whatever is true. That is why it is exactly like religion. Environmentalism has become just a matter of faith. What documentary was this? I imagine the polar bears do sometimes drown. But then, so do human beings. You think that whenever human beings drown it is because of global warming too? Don't you have just a little skepticism about all this hype we hear about global warming?

1 Reply

@plainoldme,

plainoldme wrote:

This is one time when the group who says global warming is a myth needs to be outshouted and voted down. After all, what right have they to put people they don't even know at risk?

To the extent that global warming is true, it is not a myth. But the question is: 1. to what extent is it true? and 2. how is it caused? Or do you already know the answers to both those questions too?

1 Reply

@spendius,

spendius wrote:

Where do you think we should start Caroline. Those videos of drowning polar bears bring a pang of shame to everybody but those with the hardest of hearts.

But they switch over or off and straightaway go back to what they usually do and that is what is causing the problem. Or so it is said. I'm assuming it is here because it's polite to accept a lady's assumptions in a discussion.

Polar bears won't be saved by being appalled at a video. It is stopping what we do hoping it isn't too late.

And there are happy smiling faces coming on the news to announce that growth has resumed and is exceeding forecasts. I wouldn't be surprised at the cash tills jingling merrily away when the anniversary of the birth of Our Lord next comes round and retailers telling us of their bumper profits.

There's plenty in it for the propagandists though. Not that I'm the sort that thinks they might have thrown the bear in the water themselves to save them looking around the thousands of square miles of freezing ocean for a drowning bear and being too late for the Autumn Schedules.

But if polar bears are not drowning, as that video depicts, then what are we doing to cause them to drown? Do you believe everything you see or read on the Internet? Or just what you want to believe or see?

1 Reply

@kennethamy,

Quote:

But if polar bears are not drowning, as that video depicts, then what are we doing to cause them to drown? Do you believe everything you see or read on the Internet? Or just what you want to believe or see?

What's that all about? How did you read something in my post to cause you to say that?

I accepted Caroline's assumptions as I said for the discussion. I don't see the point of not doing in view of her post. Otherwise I would be telling her that she's been had on by the magic lantern show. But her heart's in the right place which you can't say about those who find fancy excuses to carry on as before when there's a possibilty she might be right.

And I alluded to a level of cynicism I doubt you have.

1 Reply

@spendius,

spendius wrote:

Quote:
But if polar bears are not drowning, as that video depicts, then what are we doing to cause them to drown? Do you believe everything you see or read on the Internet? Or just what you want to believe or see?

What's that all about? How did you read something in my post to cause you to say that?

I accepted Caroline's assumptions as I said for the discussion. I don't see the point of not doing in view of her post. Otherwise I would be telling her that she's been had on by the magic lantern show. But her heart's in the right place which you can't say about those who find fancy excuses to carry on as before when there's a possibilty she might be right.

And I alluded to a level of cynicism I doubt you have.

You don't think you should tell her she has been taken in when you believe she has been taken in? Why? That it is possible that polar bears are downing is not a reason to change things radically. That would be sheer foolishness. It is a probability that would be a reason to change, and what would also count would be how great that probability was, and what changes would be necessary. And I did not mention cynicism, I mentioned skepticism. Cynicism is a kind of skepticism about human motivation, and there is that too, of course. But before we get to cynicism, we need to begin with skepticism. Cynicism follows.

1 Reply

@kennethamy,

kennethamy wrote:

Caroline wrote:

Of course polar bears drowning has everything to do with the planet, they are drowning because the ice caps are melting which in turn makes the sea rise, are you one of these people who thinks just because it's not effecting you then it's not happening, rather niave I think. And it's not as small as you might think, why on earth would anyone want to scare us with propaganda? You only have to smell petrol fumes to understand they are damaging, how long before the ozone goes if we don't do anything which we aren't. So what's in it for the propagandists then Ken? And by the way I saw a polar bear drowning on a BBC docutmentry who have no sane reason to lie and are subject to liable if they do lie so a reliable source thanks. Why oh why would anyone want to lie plus you can tell petrol is poisonous to the environment, it smells awful.

But they are not (repeat, not) drowning. Why don't you look it up? Unless you just want to believe it whatever is true. That is why it is exactly like religion. Environmentalism has become just a matter of faith. What documentary was this? I imagine the polar bears do sometimes drown. But then, so do human beings. You think that whenever human beings drown it is because of global warming too? Don't you have just a little skepticism about all this hype we hear about global warming?

According to this documentry they are and will be at risk, you got it wrong Kennathmy, I don't get my info from propagandists, for instance, I heard about the raw sewage in my op from a holiday programme I was watching about the do's and don'ts on your holiday, and among non-enviromental issues was a warning to check for floaters before heading into the sea. yuk! I've never actually come across propaganda concerning the enviroment, (can't you tell). So no i'm not a skeptic, scientists have said the caps are melting, the ozone has holes in, we are polluting our world, that is the hard facts.

1 Reply

@Caroline,

Caroline wrote:

kennethamy wrote:

Caroline wrote:

Of course polar bears drowning has everything to do with the planet, they are drowning because the ice caps are melting which in turn makes the sea rise, are you one of these people who thinks just because it's not effecting you then it's not happening, rather niave I think. And it's not as small as you might think, why on earth would anyone want to scare us with propaganda? You only have to smell petrol fumes to understand they are damaging, how long before the ozone goes if we don't do anything which we aren't. So what's in it for the propagandists then Ken? And by the way I saw a polar bear drowning on a BBC docutmentry who have no sane reason to lie and are subject to liable if they do lie so a reliable source thanks. Why oh why would anyone want to lie plus you can tell petrol is poisonous to the environment, it smells awful.

But they are not (repeat, not) drowning. Why don't you look it up? Unless you just want to believe it whatever is true. That is why it is exactly like religion. Environmentalism has become just a matter of faith. What documentary was this? I imagine the polar bears do sometimes drown. But then, so do human beings. You think that whenever human beings drown it is because of global warming too? Don't you have just a little skepticism about all this hype we hear about global warming?

According to this documentry they are and will be at risk, you got it wrong Kennathmy, I don't get my info from propagandists, for instance, I heard about the raw sewage in my op from a holiday programme I was watching about the do's and don'ts on your holiday, and among non-enviromental issues was a warning to check for floaters before heading into the sea. yuk! I've never actually come across propaganda concerning the enviroment, (can't you tell). So no i'm not a skeptic, scientists have said the caps are melting, the ozone has holes in, we are polluting our world, that is the hard facts.

But even if it is called a documentary, that does not make it automatically true. As the link I sent you reports, polar bears can swim for long distances. In any case, whether or not polar bears drown, and whether or not the cause of that is global warming, and whether or not raw sewage is pumped into the ocean, that does not imply that the planet is being destroyed.

1 Reply

@spendius,

spendius wrote:

Where do you think we should start Caroline. Those videos of drowning polar bears bring a pang of shame to everybody but those with the hardest of hearts.

But they switch over or off and straightaway go back to what they usually do and that is what is causing the problem. Or so it is said. I'm assuming it is here because it's polite to accept a lady's assumptions in a discussion.

And that is where the problem, (well part), is, people just don't want to know, maybe because they can't do anything about it or maybe they think it doesn't concern them, niave. All you could do is join up with groups like anmesty international or become a politician, we are infact powerless but there is a way, increase awareness is one example. People should care about their enviroment if they want to survive, it makes sense and it's logical, simple.

spendius wrote:

Polar bears won't be saved by being appalled at a video. It is stopping what we do hoping it isn't too late.

Yes and you can also donate but we have to be active.

spendius wrote:

There's plenty in it for the propagandists though. Not that I'm the sort that thinks they might have thrown the bear in the water themselves to save them looking around the thousands of square miles of freezing ocean for a drowning bear and being too late for the Autumn Schedules.

I've yet to come accross a propagandist, I was hoping someone would enlighten me a bit more.
Thanks

1 Reply

@Caroline,

Caroline wrote:

spendius wrote:

I've yet to come accross a propagandist, I was hoping someone would enlighten me a bit more.
Thanks

I think what you mean is that you have failed to come across someone you believe is a propagandist. That is different. (Have you ever listened to commercials on the Telly, or listened to political speeches?).

1 Reply

@kennethamy,

kennethamy wrote:

Caroline wrote:

kennethamy wrote:

Caroline wrote:

Of course polar bears drowning has everything to do with the planet, they are drowning because the ice caps are melting which in turn makes the sea rise, are you one of these people who thinks just because it's not effecting you then it's not happening, rather niave I think. And it's not as small as you might think, why on earth would anyone want to scare us with propaganda? You only have to smell petrol fumes to understand they are damaging, how long before the ozone goes if we don't do anything which we aren't. So what's in it for the propagandists then Ken? And by the way I saw a polar bear drowning on a BBC docutmentry who have no sane reason to lie and are subject to liable if they do lie so a reliable source thanks. Why oh why would anyone want to lie plus you can tell petrol is poisonous to the environment, it smells awful.

But they are not (repeat, not) drowning. Why don't you look it up? Unless you just want to believe it whatever is true. That is why it is exactly like religion. Environmentalism has become just a matter of faith. What documentary was this? I imagine the polar bears do sometimes drown. But then, so do human beings. You think that whenever human beings drown it is because of global warming too? Don't you have just a little skepticism about all this hype we hear about global warming?

According to this documentry they are and will be at risk, you got it wrong Kennathmy, I don't get my info from propagandists, for instance, I heard about the raw sewage in my op from a holiday programme I was watching about the do's and don'ts on your holiday, and among non-enviromental issues was a warning to check for floaters before heading into the sea. yuk! I've never actually come across propaganda concerning the enviroment, (can't you tell). So no i'm not a skeptic, scientists have said the caps are melting, the ozone has holes in, we are polluting our world, that is the hard facts.

But even if it is called a documentary, that does not make it automatically true. As the link I sent you reports, polar bears can swim for long distances. In any case, whether or not polar bears drown, and whether or not the cause of that is global warming, and whether or not raw sewage is pumped into the ocean, that does not imply that the planet is being destroyed.

Where do you think the docu got it's information? The source, they send scientists out and the caps are melting so the bears have no ice to swim to, so they carry on swimming further looking for ice and if there aint none there they drown from exhaustion, does that answer your questions? I didn't get no link btw so I don't know what happened to that. And we are polluting our planet, is that not distruction albeit slow distruction or is it? I believe scientists who have no reason to lie and some say we only got a few years left then we will see the distruction for ourselves, I reckon first we'll fry then we'll have very bad weather, storms, this is what the scientists are saying Kenny, not the propagandists.

0 Replies

@kennethamy,

kennethamy wrote:

Caroline wrote:

spendius wrote:

I've yet to come accross a propagandist, I was hoping someone would enlighten me a bit more.
Thanks

I think what you mean is that you have failed to come across someone you believe is a propagandist. That is different. (Have you ever listened to commercials on the Telly, or listened to political speeches?).

Nope my sources as I've explained are from people who got no reason to lie, I don't listen to politicians, as if. Can't say I've seen any ads concerning enviromental issues Kenny.

2 Replies

Our planet is being destroyed, does anybody care?

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