31
   

Our planet is being destroyed, does anybody care?

 
 
north
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Dec, 2010 12:42 am
@tenderfoot,
tenderfoot wrote:


Hi there Reasoning Logic..... For many years now, my wife and I have commented to each other on the problem of over population in China and realized that it it was going to be a world wide problem


true


Quote:
also that normal evolution trends would solve the problem eventually, as it is done in the locust plagues and mice plagues.
But thought humans could speed up the solutions and do it in a more "humane " way, but wouldn't have a clue how, in other words just "thinking" out load.


birth control ( which China does now , apparently )
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Dec, 2010 07:59 am
Is this causeing our planet to be destroyed?

http://www.youtube.com/user/RevolutionNewsDotUS#p/u/30/lCwQvbA-IlU
Caroline
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Dec, 2010 06:47 pm
@Chumly,
Chumly wrote:

I absolutely care. I am watching a show on the tube called "Aftermath: Population Overload" and I believe it to be a very likely nearer-term scenario. http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/series/aftermath/4463/Overview
Quote:
Imagine our population doubling overnight to 14 billion people, demanding more from an already struggling planet. Billions of people are homeless even as mega-skyscrapers are built. Food supplies and natural resources dwindle, and clean water rationing is a part of everyday life. Deadly smog shrouds cities. Countries are transformed as people are forced to migrate to survive. NGC shows you the devastating impacts of a suddenly overcrowded world.
I assert that the essential problem is we are unable/unwilling to change so as to have a small stable population and thus minimize the negative effects on the environment and maximize our own survival.

We are in essence doomed to ****-up big time and kill ourselves off.

The knowledge of this net result weighs heavily on me, even though for all intents and purposes Man can not last forever and will inevitably die off, the immediacy and stupidity of it all exacerbates my sadness.
If only everybody cared like you, sometimes I think the world is full of idiots but they will start caring when things get worse the question is will it be too late then? Thanks for your input.Smile
0 Replies
 
Caroline
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Dec, 2010 06:51 pm
@tenderfoot,
Definitely but you get some dumb fools that say that population control takes away the individuals right and freedom, (to have more than one child) which is the dumbest thing I have ever heard, I ask myself is the world full of idiots? Thanks for your input. Smile

The east have got it right, China is now controlling it's population and a city in Japan have safe and green public transport, it's really neat, they're like these electric pods. Think how clean the environment would be without black gas and electric instead, so why aren't we doing it, idiots I say!
Caroline
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Dec, 2010 06:55 pm
@reasoning logic,
What has wiki leaks got to do with it?
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Dec, 2010 07:02 pm
@Caroline,
That would depend on who you listen to!

If you listen to the fox news channel you will get something completely different than what I tried to share with you in the video. Drunk
Caroline
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Dec, 2010 07:09 pm
@reasoning logic,
Still none the wiser, I watched your link, well some of it and it was talking about Iran and stuff, I'm still clueless to what you actually mean.
Oylok
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Dec, 2010 07:11 pm
@Caroline,
Caroline, I agree with you to some extent on this issue:

Caroline wrote:
...you get some dumb fools that say that population control takes away the individuals right and freedom, (to have more than one child) which is the dumbest thing I have ever heard, I ask myself is the world full of idiots?...

The east have got it right, China is now controlling it's population...


However, "population control" need not involve authoritarian one-child policies like China's. Consider this idea as an alternative:

Green Witch wrote:
Many children are not planned or wanted and most women would chose to have no more than two if given a choice, but they live in a culture or country that does not give them that choice. So if these women who are now being forced to have between 3-10 children had the option of only having two you could have your 11 without straining the resources of the earth. It's the freedom of choice that seems of utmost importance to me.

http://able2know.org/topic/165237-1#post-4442195

In other words, in some parts of the world, if people had MORE choice they would actually have FEWER children.
Oylok
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Dec, 2010 07:15 pm
@Oylok,
I should add that GW wrote that in another thread, which is why it makes less sense in this one than it should. It was in reply to someone who asked why he shouldn't have 11 children.
0 Replies
 
Caroline
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Dec, 2010 07:19 pm
@Oylok,
Oylok wrote:

Caroline, I agree with you to some extent on this issue:

Caroline wrote:
...you get some dumb fools that say that population control takes away the individuals right and freedom, (to have more than one child) which is the dumbest thing I have ever heard, I ask myself is the world full of idiots?...

The east have got it right, China is now controlling it's population...


However, "population control" need not involve authoritarian one-child policies like China's. Consider this idea as an alternative:

Green Witch wrote:
Many children are not planned or wanted and most women would chose to have no more than two if given a choice, but they live in a culture or country that does not give them that choice. So if these women who are now being forced to have between 3-10 children had the option of only having two you could have your 11 without straining the resources of the earth. It's the freedom of choice that seems of utmost importance to me.

http://able2know.org/topic/165237-1#post-4442195

In other words, in some parts of the world, if people had MORE choice they would actually have FEWER children.
Yeah that would only help alleviate the problem, if you look at birth rates and how fast they are happening in the west for instance where women are not forced into child bearing then you will find that the planet cannot sustain us if we continue and don't do anything about it.

I disagree that China's solution is authoritarian because they are not stupid in that they recognized a problem and came up with a viable solution, I don't see anything authoritarian about it.
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Dec, 2010 07:58 pm
@Caroline,
I think that it is because of secrecy that our planet is being destroyed for the most part. Much of the dumping of waste that is not approved of by the people is done in secret to save money.
I included the wikileaks video that showed problems that we face because of secrecy.
More than 300 journalist have been killed sense the invasion of iraq, was it because of exposing secrecy?

P.S. How come I've got a green thumbs up on all my posts?

Is it because you are signed in and you are viewing your own post?
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Dec, 2010 08:02 pm
@Caroline,
Caroline wrote:

Definitely but you get some dumb fools that say that population control takes away the individuals right and freedom, (to have more than one child) which is the dumbest thing I have ever heard, I ask myself is the world full of idiots? Thanks for your input. Smile

The east have got it right, China is now controlling it's population and a city in Japan have safe and green public transport, it's really neat, they're like these electric pods. Think how clean the environment would be without black gas and electric instead, so why aren't we doing it, idiots I say!


I have a very hard time seeing how you or anyone could characterize China's policy of one child per family as anything else than an authoritarian removal of individual rights and freedom. It certainly is a denial of individual freedom over their own bodies and it is undeniably an authoritarian act by an authoritarian government.

Beyond that, I think you are in the grip of some misunderstanding about world population trends.
=> The fact is that Europe - from the British Isles to the Urals is depopulating rather fast. Female fertility (# births /female) is well below the equilibrium value (about 2.05) in every country on the continent - in about half of Europe, it is below 1.5, a rate indicating very steep population declines ahead.
=> In The USA the rate is about 2.1, indicating only very slight population growth - most of our growth is due to immigration.
=> In fact the modern urban lifestyle has amply proven itself to be the most effective form of birth control yet devised. China's enforcement of the one child/family rule has decreased as its population becomes wealthier and more urban - natural forces substitute for the authoritarian government action of the past generation. Current projections are for China's population to start decreasing in about 40 years.

Birthrates are very high in Africa, parts of the Moslem world and parts of India. However in each they are coming down very fast wherever there is modern economic development and the extablishment of free markets with individual freedoms. Are you proposing that we or someone should impose some population management actions on them?

Finally, I think you exaggerate the dangers to our planet. The earth is about 4.5 billion years old, and it has been through many cataclysims due to volcanism; asteroid or meteor impacts and continental drift . It has also seen its magnetic field die and then reverse polarity over a hundred times (as indicated in the geological record). Multiple mass extinctions and major climactic shifts have occurred and others are likely in the future. Its continental structure, climate, atmosphere and habitability to mammilian life forms have never been stable or constant. In a few more billion years the sun, in its red giant phase of decline will swell up and engulf the planet in a fiery end. So what is it you are worried about?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Dec, 2010 08:20 pm
@georgeob1,
The biggest problem with China's one child policy is the high rate of infanticide, and the resulting too many men who can't find partners for marriage - or anything else. They create an artificial imbalance in the gender, and the men end up suffering bachelorhood for the remainder of their lives.
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Dec, 2010 08:26 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Do you consider infanticide to be a crime?

I ahree with you about the imbalance in the male/femal mix in the generation now coming to adulthood - a very unusual, from a demographic perspective, ratio of about 1.05 males per female.

However, my goals in the post above were more modest. I was merely attempting to show that China's policy really was authoritarian and involverd the loss of individual freedom - and finally that it very likely will soon become unnecessary as the population becomes more urbanized and wealthier.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Dec, 2010 08:34 pm
@georgeob1,
In the US it's a crime, but it's almost a normal practice in some countries like China and India. I'm not a judge of what other people do where we have no business or understanding of their decision to kill their infants.

We did visit a woman's coop in one of the villages we visited in India (recently in November-December) where the leader, a Muslim gentleman, tries to have the mother keep the baby for three days. It seems that's the magic number of days for the mother to become attached to their baby.

If the mother decides after the three days she doesn't want the baby, the government will take over.

I thought that was an interesting change for many women in India that commit infanticide, because they worry about the dowry they must provide when the girl plans to get married.
0 Replies
 
Caroline
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Dec, 2010 08:53 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Yeah I know it does make you wonder what they are going to do for women partners?
0 Replies
 
Caroline
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Dec, 2010 08:54 pm
@georgeob1,
Why do you think China did it, to get all authoritarian on your ass, use your head and logic.
Caroline
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Dec, 2010 08:55 pm
@georgeob1,
Dream on georgy boy.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Dec, 2010 09:35 pm
@Caroline,
Caroline wrote:

Why do you think China did it, to get all authoritarian on your ass, use your head and logic.


Caroline wrote:
Dream on georgy boy.


Now there's a well reasoned response to a rational and factual post.
Caroline
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Dec, 2010 09:37 pm
@georgeob1,
No it wasn't factual, you just presented YOUR theory without backing it up with evidence, AGAIN!
 

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