31
   

Our planet is being destroyed, does anybody care?

 
 
Caroline
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Aug, 2010 01:38 pm
@Caroline,
The solutions are easy which will create jobs and have lots of positive effects that will benefit man if only he could see further than the end of his wallet.
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Fri 20 Aug, 2010 05:58 pm
@Caroline,
I've never met a woman in my life who could see further than my wallet. It's a basic evolutionary principle and nothing to be ashamed of.

Just look at those ugly and stupid footballers with class dames in tow. Imagine them as fork truck drivers.
Caroline
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Aug, 2010 06:00 pm
@spendius,
So you troll in this thread and insult me in another, and the intelligence is where? Pea brain.
HexHammer
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Aug, 2010 08:19 pm
@Caroline,
Caroline wrote:

So you troll in this thread and insult me in another, and the intelligence is where? Pea brain.
Please speak for youself, it is you who clearly have the pee brain, just look at our previous discussion and all your farfetched suggestions.
Caroline
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 20 Aug, 2010 08:21 pm
@HexHammer,
And you can eff off in all hex, if you don't like what I say then don't respond child.
0 Replies
 
William
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Aug, 2010 03:01 am
@deepthot,
deepthot wrote:

I am a philosopher as well as an activist.

As the former I ask: Why do we continue to render uninhabitable much of our planet? What forms of ignorance and neglect are entailed?

As an activist, I support the efforts of The Genii - The Global Energy Network Initiative. Their monthly newsletter is available at this site:
http://www.geni.org/
It is a project inspired by Buckminster Fuller's vision of the land masses (on the planet on which we all reside) interconnected with shared power grids. This reinforces our interdependence upon one another and thus makes war between regions less likely.

I spread the word that it is a fact that a very small portion of the Earth's deserts could supply all the power that Western Civilization needs via solar energy installations. This has to be supplemented with good sound transmission lines and cables to transport the virtually-free energy to places which are population centers. Hence I support the recent agreement between the nations in the North-African Alliance and those in Europe to share power grids. I welcome such cooperation. This is good news!

At the same time I believe in decentralized power sources, and am working for the rehabbing of business buildings to conserve energy; as well as for the placement of green, clean power-supply mini-windmills on each roof, and solar-energy panels in each backyard. I put pressure on local governments and utilities to supply money for this cause, to allocate resources to this end. :You could do the same.


Hello Deepthot, thanks for the link. Perhaps you can tell my why the price for registration is so much. For a global network of such admirable offerings, why such costs to register? I may be missing something here and if so please inform me.
William
Caroline
 
  0  
Reply Sat 21 Aug, 2010 03:26 am
@William,
Hi William, are you alright, how ya doing mate?
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  3  
Reply Sat 21 Aug, 2010 06:28 am
@Caroline,
I have been avoiding this thread because of the militant anti-environmentalists who sat here and attacked what the environmental movement. At the base of the environmental movement is common sense.

Spendius made a fool of himself on a thread discussing evolution. He is far from forward thinking and seems to exist in some sort of bubble.

I am not familiar with you or your posts but to have raised the ire of spendius is something of which you should be proud. It means that you are on the right track.
spendius
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 21 Aug, 2010 06:39 am
@William,
Quote:
deepthot wrote:


I am a philosopher as well as an activist.


The whole point of being a philosopher is that you're not an activist. Philosophy is an "on the other hand" business. That's why it's thrives. If anybody had any definite answers it would be long gone. That's why women are useless at it and especially the women we have on here. The only think POM and Caroline know about philosophy is how to spell the it and to pop it into conversation as a glitterword.

And as for preventing the planet being destroyed you can forget it. Women are the drivers of consumerism.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 21 Aug, 2010 06:45 am
@plainoldme,
Quote:
Spendius made a fool of himself on a thread discussing evolution.


I feel sure POM that viewers here would like a little explanation of what you mean. Assertions count for nothing.

If anybody wishes to see me running rings round my opponents on the evolution threads they only need peruse them. Taking your word for any damn thing at all looks to be a very risky business.

Still-it's nice to know you go way off topic to draw attention to me. Two silly moos is right up my street. My favourite leisure activity.
0 Replies
 
Caroline
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Aug, 2010 07:12 am
@plainoldme,
Hi plainoldme, thanks for your posts, good points you made, yeah spendi is easy to rile because he's such a div. Cheers then!
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  2  
Reply Sat 21 Aug, 2010 09:22 pm
Stores across Mexico City’s went bagless this week as amended ordinances on solid waste prohibited businesses from giving out non-biodegradable plastic shopping bags. The law affects all stores, production facilities and service providers within the Federal District (which encompasses the city limits) making Mexico City the second large metropolitan area in the Western Hemisphere to outlaw the bags. In 2007, San Francisco enacted an ordinance to phase out the bags, and Los Angeles is set to impose a ban if the state of California does not enact a statewide 25-cent fee per bag.

Isn’t that great?! Between 500 billion and one trillion plastic grocery bags are produced worldwide each year. (Isn’t that not great?!) The average number of plastic bags consumed every minute around the world is roughly 1 million a minute. Not too shocking to hear that plastic bags are the second-most-common form of litter, behind cigarette butts. The bags are the greatest form of litter on the globe’s oceans, the U.N. agency said in a recent report, resulting in the estimated death of 100,000 whales, turtles, and other marine animals annually.

In the United State alone, 12 million barrels of oil are required to produce enough plastic bags to appease our needs. And then there’s that little decomposition problem: 500 years in the landfill. About 90 percent of the bags used in the United States are not recycled.

According to a report from CNN, other places are taking the problem seriously as well: China has adopted a strict limit, reducing litter and eliminating the use of 40 billion bags, the World Watch Institute said. In Tanzania, selling the bags carries a maximum six-month jail sentence and a fine of 1.5 million shilling ($1,137). Mumbai, India, outlawed the bags in 2000 and cities in Australia, Italy, South Africa and Taiwan have imposed bans or surcharges. Ireland reported cutting use of the bags by 90 percent after imposing a fee on each one.
0 Replies
 
Zetherin
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Aug, 2010 09:27 pm
plainoldme wrote:
Isn’t that great?!

Not at all. I prefer carrying my groceries home in plastic bags. Try getting caught in a thunderstorm while walking home with groceries in paper bags. Trust me, it isn't pretty.
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Aug, 2010 11:58 pm
@deepthot,
deepthot wrote:

I spread the word that it is a fact that a very small portion of the Earth's deserts could supply all the power that Western Civilization needs via solar energy installations. This has to be supplemented with good sound transmission lines and cables to transport the virtually-free energy to places which are population centers. Hence I support the recent agreement between the nations in the North-African Alliance and those in Europe to share power grids. I welcome such cooperation. This is good news!

At the same time I believe in decentralized power sources, and am working for the rehabbing of business buildings to conserve energy; as well as for the placement of green, clean power-supply mini-windmills on each roof, and solar-energy panels in each backyard. I put pressure on local governments and utilities to supply money for this cause, to allocate resources to this end. :You could do the same.


All this sounds very good, but a reasonable person has to ask, if it is such a good idea why aren't power producers unvesting large amounts in the production of solar power inn desert regions? Why aren't homeowners installing solar panels and wind turbines on the roofs of their houses? Why aren't the owners of large commercial buildings doing the same? Even with large subsidies (cost transferred to other consumers) the response has been tepid at best. Wind turbines on rooftops would generally require significant structural strengthening of roofs as well.

Why do environmental activists "put pressure on local governments and utilities to supply money for these causes?

The answers involve several factors, the most limiting of which is the far greater cost of solar and wind power, even in the most favorable locations, compared to coal gas or nuclear power. Here I include both capital cost and operating cost. Protagonists are given to cite data for the comparative capital cost of coal or nuclear power per KW capacity to wind and solar and note that though wind & solar are still more expensive, the difference is only 20% - 40%. however when one considers the power actually produced over time, the fact that the wind doesn't blow and the sun doesn't shine all the time must be included. The capacity factor (% of theoretical capacity actually generated over a several month period) is at best only 30% for the most modern large wind turbines and not more than 40% even in the Mohave desert. (For the past 10 years our nuclear plants have averaged a capacity factor of about 90% even including periodic shutdowns for refuelling.) THus the capital and operating costs of wind and solar power per KW-Hr of energy actually generated is more than double that of conventional sources, and that isn't going to change anytime soon.

Moreover because of the daily variability in power produced, wind and soalr don't eliminate the requirement for reserve coal and nuclear powerplants operating in standby.

The net effect would be an enormous increase in the cost of energy - one large enough to wreck our economy.

Another ironic factor is that zealous environmenatlists have stoutly opposed the required expansion of our electrical grid and even the construction of wind farms and solar power stations because of their effect on habitat and the environment.
kennethamy
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Aug, 2010 12:39 am
@Zetherin,
Zetherin wrote:

plainoldme wrote:
Isn’t that great?!

Not at all. I prefer carrying my groceries home in plastic bags. Try getting caught in a thunderstorm while walking home with groceries in paper bags. Trust me, it isn't pretty.



I regularly request paper bags inside plastic bags. The plastic helps carry heavy paper bags loaded with food. And I use the bags or trash.
roger
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Aug, 2010 02:11 am
@kennethamy,
Aha! Choke a duck AND kill a tree.

Just kidding, but I was upset with my supermarket bagger the other day. Two (count 'em - two) packages of Canadian bacon with combined weight of 10 oz got their own plastic bag. One loaf of bread - one plastic bag. The bread comes in its own plastic bag. It needs another?

Really, I like plastic bags, but how about a little common sense? Anyway, I reuse them too. In late fall I will be stuffing the evaporative cooler with them. Block the wind and insulate the wind box.
roger
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Aug, 2010 02:13 am
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

Why do environmental activists "put pressure on local governments and utilities to supply money for these causes?


That's not the tough question you seem to think it is, George. Their agenda; someone else's money. Win - Win.
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Aug, 2010 08:18 pm
@Zetherin,
Ever hear of a tote bag? Stronger than either paper or plastic. Reuseable. Carries much more. Guaranteed not to make the retail clerk silently curse you which many do. I know because I work in retail and we hate folks who ask for plastic. The worst ones are the cyclists! For gawd's sake, get a bike basket!
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Aug, 2010 08:24 pm
@roger,
Before the bring your own bag movement, I once went to the store to buy a loaf of bread and a carton of eggs. The bagger put them in two bags. I am not reluctant to tell the bagger how wasteful that is or to point out that if the eggs went on the bottom and the bread on top, they wouldn't hurt each other.

I generally try to pack my own things because baggers will spread goods that need to be refrigerated among non-refrigeration bound items. Really a stupid maneuver. If packed together, perishables will help maintain a cooler temperature in the bag.

I will also repack bags when the method used doesn't suit me and, yes, I separate my perishables from non-perishables, keeping the perishables to the back. Some packers will wait for them!

A note to the store manager can be helpful as well.
0 Replies
 
Caroline
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Nov, 2010 04:32 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:


All this sounds very good, but a reasonable person has to ask, if it is such a good idea why aren't power producers unvesting large amounts in the production of solar power inn desert regions?
You tell me? Why aren't they?
georgeob1 wrote:
Why aren't homeowners installing solar panels and wind turbines on the roofs of their houses? Why aren't the owners of large commercial buildings doing the same? Even with large subsidies (cost transferred to other consumers) the response has been tepid at best. Wind turbines on rooftops would generally require significant structural strengthening of roofs as well.
Significant structural strengthening?! what about when you dont have an ozone over your head then, huh, what then Einstein? Solar panels are piss easy to install and who mentioned turbines on a roof, duh anyone can see that aint going to work unless you live in a windmill, not thought about turbines powering house another way then? say like big ones on the ground, not seen them then? hmmm? And why do you pick at ideas and not actually back it up with any substance?
georgeob1 wrote:
Why do environmental activists "put pressure on local governments and utilities to supply money for these causes?

The answers involve several factors, the most limiting of which is the far greater cost of solar and wind power, even in the most favorable locations, compared to coal gas or nuclear power. Here I include both capital cost and operating cost. Protagonists are given to cite data for the comparative capital cost of coal or nuclear power per KW capacity to wind and solar and note that though wind & solar are still more expensive, the difference is only 20% - 40%. however when one considers the power actually produced over time, the fact that the wind doesn't blow and the sun doesn't shine all the time must be included. The capacity factor (% of theoretical capacity actually generated over a several month period) is at best only 30% for the most modern large wind turbines and not more than 40% even in the Mohave desert. (For the past 10 years our nuclear plants have averaged a capacity factor of about 90% even including periodic shutdowns for refuelling.) THus the capital and operating costs of wind and solar power per KW-Hr of energy actually generated is more than double that of conventional sources, and that isn't going to change anytime soon.
Well aren't you the informative one, it doesn't cost shed loads to install solar, nuclear and wind power, for fucks sake we spend more on arms. You failed to see the advantage of these powers and that is they are GREENER FOR THB ENVIRONMENT, incase you hadn't noticed that is what this debate is. My point is cost shouldn't come before death, you chose costs rather then save the planet, that has got to be the most stupidist, selfish ignorant reason, duh do you not want to save the planet then? Screw the costs stupid you wont have a life, duh and double duh.
georgeob1 wrote:
Moreover because of the daily variability in power produced, wind and soalr don't eliminate the requirement for reserve coal and nuclear powerplants operating in standby.
Oh shut up, greener fuels can power us and incase you didn't know we are running out of options or don't you like to live huh? dufus
georgeob1 wrote:
The net effect would be an enormous increase in the cost of energy - one large enough to wreck our economy.
So you're a ******* economist now how smart. Give me a break, wreck our economy you have no idea that it'll create jobs, no Mr george the only economy it'll wreck is the big fat cats sitting on the top who don't give a **** about wrecking our environment coz they naively think it wont happen in their life so **** em, that is exactly what is going on, wreck the environment not the nice tidy fat profits made out of oil and coal.
georgeob1 wrote:
Another ironic factor is that zealous environmenatlists have stoutly opposed the required expansion of our electrical grid and even the construction of wind farms and solar power stations because of their effect on habitat and the environment.
Oh the irony is just so ironic, do YOU have a better idea then? And calling me an opinionated snit shows that you cannot control your emotions, like your arguments totally unstable. Wink
 

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