31
   

Our planet is being destroyed, does anybody care?

 
 
kennethamy
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Aug, 2010 02:22 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

Quote:
And that shows it is a religious controversy between the Global Warming believers (on the side of Good) and the Deniers (on the side of Evil, and certainly against polar bears).


I said a can of worms ken. I meant it. That's way too simple. Both "believers" and "deniers" are aspects of the same materialist myth. Bedfellows. Getting off on each other. Symbiotic.


What materialistic myth is that?
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Aug, 2010 02:48 pm
That man can live by bread alone.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Aug, 2010 02:52 pm
@Caroline,
Quote:
I'm off now guys thanks for your input I really enjoyed it.


Best thing really. You might end up in a cave in the Outer Hebrides living on seaweed. There are no degrees in matters of principle.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Aug, 2010 04:33 pm
It really doesn't matter; the universe is infinite, and will live on forever.

Human life is very short when measured in our planet's life; and we're the only ones measuring time based on our own creation.
0 Replies
 
kennethamy
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Aug, 2010 05:39 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

That man can live by bread alone.


And how does that connect with what we were talking about?
0 Replies
 
wayne
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Aug, 2010 12:08 am
@Caroline,
Caroline wrote:

wayne wrote:

Caroline wrote:

wayne wrote:

It seems that in America the only thing that motivates action is profit. When conservation becomes profitable then we will see action.
Which is why I think it's a good idea.


wayne wrote:
Yes, it is a good idea, the problem lies in how best to legislate change.
How come? is it because it's complicated?
wayne wrote:
The best solutions probably lie with personal choice. The best avenue towards facilitating personal choice is education.
Yes indeed, I agree, education is normally a good place to start when addressing issues.
wayne wrote:
K/A is absolutely correct that extremism only hurts the cause.
Yes indeed because things don't get done/sorted.
wayne wrote:
If we are to educate effectively, there needs to be a real effort made to be objective and practical about it.
I do believe that there are many people attempting to do just that.

Great news, I hope they are successful, is there much chance of that? oops it seems I've got the quoting a bit wrong, well my reply is there.


Legislating change is more than just complicated, Americans don't like anyone telling them what to do. Least of all, the government. Just look at the hoopla over national health care. Can you imagine the reaction if the government told us how many children we could have, or rationed our gasoline?
That leaves education as the only viable route to effective change. Actually, we've been at that since I was in grade school in the 60's.
I think one reason it's moving so slow is our consumer society. We are constantly bombarded with images of the good life. Earn more, buy more, and you will find happiness. It's pretty hard for moderation to gain much ground against that, even among the willing.
Caroline
 
  0  
Reply Mon 2 Aug, 2010 06:03 am
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

Quote:
I'm off now guys thanks for your input I really enjoyed it.


Best thing really. You might end up in a cave in the Outer Hebrides living on seaweed. There are no degrees in matters of principle.
What on earth does that mean?
0 Replies
 
Caroline
 
  0  
Reply Mon 2 Aug, 2010 06:06 am
@wayne,
wayne wrote:

Caroline wrote:

wayne wrote:

Caroline wrote:

wayne wrote:

It seems that in America the only thing that motivates action is profit. When conservation becomes profitable then we will see action.
Which is why I think it's a good idea.


wayne wrote:
Yes, it is a good idea, the problem lies in how best to legislate change.
How come? is it because it's complicated?
wayne wrote:
The best solutions probably lie with personal choice. The best avenue towards facilitating personal choice is education.
Yes indeed, I agree, education is normally a good place to start when addressing issues.
wayne wrote:
K/A is absolutely correct that extremism only hurts the cause.
Yes indeed because things don't get done/sorted.
wayne wrote:
If we are to educate effectively, there needs to be a real effort made to be objective and practical about it.
I do believe that there are many people attempting to do just that.

Great news, I hope they are successful, is there much chance of that? oops it seems I've got the quoting a bit wrong, well my reply is there.


Legislating change is more than just complicated, Americans don't like anyone telling them what to do. Least of all, the government. Just look at the hoopla over national health care. Can you imagine the reaction if the government told us how many children we could have, or rationed our gasoline?
That leaves education as the only viable route to effective change. Actually, we've been at that since I was in grade school in the 60's.
I think one reason it's moving so slow is our consumer society. We are constantly bombarded with images of the good life. Earn more, buy more, and you will find happiness. It's pretty hard for moderation to gain much ground against that, even among the willing.
Yes I know, we are brainwashed into thinking that we need these material things but we need to change.
0 Replies
 
Caroline
 
  0  
Reply Mon 2 Aug, 2010 06:13 am
@kennethamy,
kennethamy wrote:

Caroline wrote:

I dunno Ken, stopping drilling is not a bad idea, we should be looking for greener resources anyway. Sorry couldn't resist. Smile


No idea what you mean, or what your point is. Stopping drilling means the loss of at least 40,000 jobs, together with all the collateral effects on the regional economy. You might be less complacent if it were your job, or if you worked in a shop that depended on oil-drill workers to buy things, and you lost your job because of the stoppage which you knew was just political panic. Slime is green too.

There will be enough jobs created through recycling, look at India, they recycle are large percentage of their rubbish, they sift through their garbage, they have an economy based on it. If everyone did a their little bit, work as a team then there would be more conservation and mass recycling. Nature gives us everything we need, for instance it produces bio degradable gases, we do not need to rob the land. How do you think ants have survived on this planet for so long? They work, they work as a team, they have a queen that gives birth, workers that bring food, some go around feeding the eggs, some make sure the temperature is right, and they all have a pacific job to do for their whole lives and that's what we need to do. We are like ants and everyone has to do their bit because if we ALL did that then we would have a better environment to live in. But you have to be committed which takes a bit of effort, but it's not hard!!!!
Caroline
 
  0  
Reply Mon 2 Aug, 2010 06:31 am
@Caroline,
Life is not rocket science.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Aug, 2010 06:35 am
@Caroline,
It is. Moreso. Rocket science is simple stuff.
Caroline
 
  0  
Reply Mon 2 Aug, 2010 06:37 am
@spendius,
Who is Moreso?
0 Replies
 
Caroline
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Aug, 2010 07:24 am
@kennethamy,
kennethamy wrote:

You might be less complacent if it were your job, or if you worked in a shop that depended on oil-drill workers to buy things, and you lost your job because of the stoppage which you knew was just political panic. Slime is green too.
I'm talking about the environment and damaged caused by oil I don't think it's political panic more of a case of greener solutions which should not cause panic, the time to panic is when it's too late, for real!
HexHammer
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Aug, 2010 05:53 pm
@Caroline,
Caroline wrote:

I heard the other day that one country produces 152 million tons of raw sewage a year. The sea is our dumping ground. It's only a matter of time before it bites us on the bum, what I dont get is that nobody seems to give a hoot.
P.S. How come I've got a green thumbs up on all my posts.
I'm sorely baffled by these extremely ignorent words, for many decades Green Peace has fought for the enviroment all over the world. Goverments do care, but their will vains in the budgets, crisis, lobbyists sooth saying ..and most of all vots and goodwill.
There has been passed many laws, though with little effect, but slowly and steadily we'r getting there.

Back in the 80'ies industries could freely domp waste in the ocean and rivers in western countries, only getting minor fines. Chemical industries didn't bother to concern themselves with wastewater which were led directly into the drinking water, polluting and sickening many civilians around the world.

I just wonder how you can avoid all this, there's been made movies about it, the internet are stuffed with all kinds of such reports ..etc.
Caroline
 
  0  
Reply Tue 3 Aug, 2010 04:19 am
@Caroline,
How am I ignorant? As I said before we need to find the money to stop pollution, I bet we spend more on arms then cleaning up the environment, how is that ignorant? We all need to be active, have you only read one of my posts? that's being ignorant, read the facts, that is we keep shirking our responsibilities for whatever reasons and slowly getting there isnt fast good nor fast enough. Ignorant? i'm highlighting a problem that needs to be addressed, you tell me we are getting there eventually and i'll tell you we need to do a lot more and I'm the one whose ignorant? give me a break.
Caroline
 
  0  
Reply Tue 3 Aug, 2010 04:39 am
@HexHammer,
And I'm not sure what point you're even trying to make, yes I know we did worse in the 80's and I know governments are trying but as my op states we are still polluting, whats your point? My op is just an example, they knew 20 years ago and did nothing, it's only been the last ten years that's there been stricter laws and technology, so it hasn't been that long, my point is we should be pulling our bloody finger out! What's yours? They have big meetings about it, (G8), they fly there and drive their big cars there and all they do is talk, hypocrites .
0 Replies
 
Caroline
 
  0  
Reply Tue 3 Aug, 2010 05:04 am
@HexHammer,
My point is they could be doing a lot more then they could be doing, for instance, electric cars have been out since the 80's if not before. Emissions should be at least half by now but it cost billions for companies to convert, there is not enough money in it for them. Too much debate and arguments and not enough action.
0 Replies
 
prothero
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Aug, 2010 10:04 am
Actually you know I have decided the planet will survive.

After watching the history of the earth and seeing how the planet has evolved and life has survived basaltic lava eruptions, meteor strikes, snowball earth, ice ages, etc. The planet will survive and life will go on. Now humans may not survive and our current cultures and societies may collapse due to catastrophic changes in climate but life and the planet will survive with, without and despite us. We may disrupt and destroy the current balance and the current ecosystems to our own detriment but the planet and the presence of life on it will endure. It is a tragedy to be sure but man is not the measure or the purpose of all things and life and the planet are more resilent and enduring than commonly supposed.
0 Replies
 
HexHammer
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Aug, 2010 12:44 pm
@Caroline,
Caroline wrote:

How am I ignorant? As I said before we need to find the money to stop pollution, I bet we spend more on arms then cleaning up the environment, how is that ignorant? We all need to be active, have you only read one of my posts? that's being ignorant, read the facts, that is we keep shirking our responsibilities for whatever reasons and slowly getting there isnt fast good nor fast enough. Ignorant? i'm highlighting a problem that needs to be addressed, you tell me we are getting there eventually and i'll tell you we need to do a lot more and I'm the one whose ignorant? give me a break.
Ah, so you ain't ignorent, just selfcontradicting, most of my worries are gone now.

Caroline wrote:

And I'm not sure what point you're even trying to make, yes I know we did worse in the 80's and I know governments are trying but as my op states we are still polluting, whats your point? My op is just an example, they knew 20 years ago and did nothing, it's only been the last ten years that's there been stricter laws and technology, so it hasn't been that long,
Do you know the operational radius of even the modern electric cars, and the recharge time?
Caroline wrote:

my point is we should be pulling our bloody finger out! What's yours? They have big meetings about it, (G8), they fly there and drive their big cars there and all they do is talk, hypocrites .
Whenever I see anyone rush to do something, it usually goes horrible wrong, lots of money wasted as in the billions, now with the recent war on terror far over 1.5 trillions $ were wasted on nothing. Least for Denmark, each year we waste about 450 million kr, on Africa ending in the wrong pockets, after 3 decades the people are still piss poor, nothing works down there.

How do you as goverment avoid being too bossy thus the buisness outsource their activities to less strict countries? Nor can you as country being bossy towards other soverein nations and tell them how to run their stuff with enviroment and what not.

prothero wrote:

Actually you know I have decided the planet will survive.

After watching the history of the earth and seeing how the planet has evolved and life has survived basaltic lava eruptions, meteor strikes, snowball earth, ice ages, etc. The planet will survive and life will go on. Now humans may not survive and our current cultures and societies may collapse due to catastrophic changes in climate but life and the planet will survive with, without and despite us. We may disrupt and destroy the current balance and the current ecosystems to our own detriment but the planet and the presence of life on it will endure. It is a tragedy to be sure but man is not the measure or the purpose of all things and life and the planet are more resilent and enduring than commonly supposed.
Sure the earth will presist, but the animals not, too many animals are on the endangerd list, if humans are not whipped in place they will die and lots of races become exinct.
Caroline
 
  0  
Reply Tue 3 Aug, 2010 01:09 pm
@HexHammer,
HexHammer wrote:
Ah, so you ain't ignorent, just selfcontradicting, most of my worries are gone now.
How am I self-contradicting, you haven't explained why you've called me ignorant so how am I supposed to understand?

HexHammer wrote:
Whenever I see anyone rush to do something, it usually goes horrible wrong, lots of money wasted as in the billions, now with the recent war on terror far over 1.5 trillions $ were wasted on nothing. Least for Denmark, each year we waste about 450 million kr, on Africa ending in the wrong pockets, after 3 decades the people are still piss poor, nothing works down there.
So different policies are needed, ones that work.
HexHammer wrote:
How do you as goverment avoid being too bossy thus the buisness outsource their activities to less strict countries? Nor can you as country being bossy towards other soverein nations and tell them how to run their stuff with enviroment and what not.
Education, if you educate the people the benefits and there will be jobs- incentives. I'm not sure what you mean, you could offer money incentives to businesses to stay in the country. Do you mean less stricter as in they can dump more so it's cheaper, then I say money incentives and to be honest all countries should have strict laws concerning dumping.
 

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