31
   

Our planet is being destroyed, does anybody care?

 
 
parados
 
  3  
Reply Sun 1 Aug, 2010 10:17 am
@kennethamy,
Quote:
You think that from the fact that there was one accident which caused an oil spill, that drilling is dangerous enough to justify closing down all oil drilling in the entire Gulf?


This happens all the time in real life.

All planes were grounded on 9/11 and for 3 days after.

All planes in Europe were grounded because of volcanic ash just because of an incident with a plane crashing after flying through an ash cloud.
http://www.necn.com/04/16/10/Volcanic-ash-keeps-planes-grounded/landing.html?blockID=217944&feedID=4215

Product are recalled regularly because of a few incidents
http://moms.gather.com/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474978325948

The reasoning is usually that it is best to err on the side of safety when the outcomes are unknown. We don't know exactly why the incident occurred in the gulf so why not make sure it doesn't happen again before we let it continue.

Quote:
So that if there is a bad auto accident in Mississippi, no driving should be allowed in Mississippi? And why then only in the Gulf. Unless there is something special about drilling in the Gulf, why not in the whole United States?
Yes, there is something special about drilling in the Gulf compared to North Dakota. I think even you can figure out some differences there kennethamy.
kennethamy
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Aug, 2010 10:31 am
@parados,
parados wrote:

Quote:
You think that from the fact that there was one accident which caused an oil spill, that drilling is dangerous enough to justify closing down all oil drilling in the entire Gulf?


This happens all the time in real life.

All planes were grounded on 9/11 and for 3 days after.

All planes in Europe were grounded because of volcanic ash just because of an incident with a plane crashing after flying through an ash cloud.
http://www.necn.com/04/16/10/Volcanic-ash-keeps-planes-grounded/landing.html?blockID=217944&feedID=4215

Product are recalled regularly because of a few incidents
http://moms.gather.com/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474978325948

The reasoning is usually that it is best to err on the side of safety when the outcomes are unknown. We don't know exactly why the incident occurred in the gulf so why not make sure it doesn't happen again before we let it continue.

Quote:
So that if there is a bad auto accident in Mississippi, no driving should be allowed in Mississippi? And why then only in the Gulf. Unless there is something special about drilling in the Gulf, why not in the whole United States?
Yes, there is something special about drilling in the Gulf compared to North Dakota. I think even you can figure out some differences there kennethamy.



But in the cases you give there was some known general condition that made continuing to fly dangerous. But there was nothing like that in the off-shore drilling. There was no general reason to think that there was anything wrong with any of the other rigs. Just as if supposing there was a bad accident in Mississippi because of a drunk driver, that would not be a reason to stop all driving in Mississippi. There was an explosion on one oil-rig. That was no reason, in itself, to think there would be explosions on any of the others.

And we are, of course talking about off-shore drilling. North Dakota is not off-shore. And we knew that an explosion was the cause of what happened in the Gulf, and (as I pointed out) there was no reason to think that an explosion would occur on the other rigs. It is well to err on the side of safely when we have no idea why something happened, but that was not true in the Gulf.

Indeed, it was because the Judge who reasoned as I did, that he stopped Obama's order from going into effect. It is still officially pending in the courts since Obama appealed, but now that things have settled down, and even Obama is not panicking (since it has no political point) it looks as if Obama's order will die the death it deserves.

"Just a little commonsense". But then, of course, you do need a little commonsense.
Caroline
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Aug, 2010 10:32 am
@kennethamy,
I dunno Ken, stopping drilling is not a bad idea, we should be looking for greener resources anyway. Sorry couldn't resist. Smile
0 Replies
 
kennethamy
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Aug, 2010 10:36 am
kennethamy wrote:

Caroline wrote:

I dunno Ken, stopping drilling is not a bad idea, we should be looking for greener resources anyway. Sorry couldn't resist. Smile


No idea what you mean, or what your point is. Stopping drilling means the loss of at least 40,000 jobs, together with all the collateral effects on the regional economy. You might be less complacent if it were your job, or if you worked in a shop that depended on oil-drill workers to buy things, and you lost your job because of the stoppage which you knew was just political panic. Slime is green too.
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Sun 1 Aug, 2010 10:47 am
@kennethamy,
Quote:

You think that from the fact that there was one accident which caused an oil spill, that drilling is dangerous enough to justify closing down all oil drilling in the entire Gulf?


Yes - because it revealed that there is no plan for fixing problems at that depth. All the 'contingency plans' that BP and other drillers had on file were pure bullshit - they relied on factors which did not exist in order to be successful, and what more, 100% of the worldwide capacity for dealing with problems was currently already being used.

I should also point out that they didn't shut down ALL oil production in the Gulf, just the drilling of new wells.

We cannot just keep doing stupid **** over again and pretend that it isn't going to be a problem, in the name of oil company profits. This seems to be what you are advocating - damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead! right?

Quote:
In any case, how would seeing how the oil spill affected people have anything to do with assessing whether it was dangerous to continue drilling? Nothing at all, is the answer. More sentimental rubbish.


I suggested it, because the primary impression I get from your posts is that you don't give two shits about the problems caused by the oil gusher - and you don't care if it happens again, either. A little empathy on your part would help you look like less of a dick.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Sun 1 Aug, 2010 10:51 am
@kennethamy,
Quote:
And we knew that an explosion was the cause of what happened in the Gulf, and (as I pointed out) there was no reason to think that an explosion would occur on the other rigs.


You are incorrect; it was not an explosion on the rig which caused the problem. And I would also point out that currently producing rigs are NOT being stopped from producing - only those who are drilling new wells, for which there is no plan to fix them if anything goes wrong.

Your desire for ever-increasing amounts of oil does not trump the right the rest of us have to not have our environment fucked by a disaster. I grew up in the Gulf and have spent a lot of time there on various ships. I know plenty of people whose livelihoods are screwed by this event. Your casual disregard of this, in the name of keeping the oil flowing, doesn't reflect well upon you.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Sun 1 Aug, 2010 10:51 am
@kennethamy,
Is it your position that we should keep doing extremely dangerous things, for which there is no way to stop accidents when they happen, just so that we don't lose jobs?

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Aug, 2010 11:09 am
@kennethamy,
Quote:
And that shows it is a religious controversy between the Global Warming believers (on the side of Good) and the Deniers (on the side of Evil, and certainly against polar bears).


I said a can of worms ken. I meant it. That's way too simple. Both "believers" and "deniers" are aspects of the same materialist myth. Bedfellows. Getting off on each other. Symbiotic.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Aug, 2010 11:12 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Quote:
I would suggest that you go spend some time in the regions which are going to be hard-hit by this spill and then come back and tell us that it's no big deal...


They are as addicted to oil as the rest of us. No oil and they are empty, storm lashed and desolate. The equation is easy. Hand-wringers notwithstanding.
0 Replies
 
Caroline
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Aug, 2010 11:16 am
@kennethamy,
kennethamy wrote:

No idea what you mean, or what your point is.
My point is clear and consistent through out this thread!
kennethamy wrote:
drilling means the loss of at least 40,000 jobs, together with all the collateral effects on the regional economy.
There won't be much of a planet left if we continue, why put off the inevitable and the right thing to do? Don't you think a solution for job losses wont be thought of, I mean come on, don't underestimate our capacity to solve problems like this.
kennethamy wrote:
You might be less complacent if it were your job,
and you might be less complacent when there's no habitat, (careful what I say now,Smile), left, get your priorities right and stop panicking.
kennethamy wrote:
Slime is green too.
Sorry don't get it.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Aug, 2010 11:19 am
@Caroline,
Quote:
. It was one BIG accident that killed a lot of wildlife.


How much wildlife is killed digging the foundations to a house or ploughing a field. You're in danger, Caroline, of empathising with just the wildlife you see presented pathetically on BP hunting media. It wouldn't surprise me if it turned out that a few birds had been doused in crude to get the pictures.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Aug, 2010 11:22 am
@Caroline,
Quote:
Why not go in better prepared which would prevent this disaster from happening in the first place.


How "better prepared" and presumably applied to every drilling rig in the world of which there are thousands. There are 2,000 in the Gulf of Mexico alone.
Caroline
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Aug, 2010 11:29 am
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

Quote:
. It was one BIG accident that killed a lot of wildlife.


How much wildlife is killed digging the foundations to a house or ploughing a field. You're in danger, Caroline, of empathising with just the wildlife you see presented pathetically on BP hunting media. It wouldn't surprise me if it turned out that a few birds had been doused in crude to get the pictures.
Dont make assumptions about me spendius, I regard extinction of ALL species to be wrong, how many animals become extinct by ploughing one field? Be realistic. I empathize with the unnecessary harmful things we do to animals, like polluting their environment on a bigger scale such as the oil spill, it has environmental consequences that are damaging, hardly the same scale as ploughing a field is it, what is your point exactly? Yeah maybe they did douse a few birds to get the pics, who knows but I'll tell you what I do know, that there was big oil spill and it effects the willdlife badly, that's just common sense or are you in danger of thinking there's nothing wrong with ******* up our environment? Hmmm?
Caroline
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Aug, 2010 11:31 am
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

Quote:
Why not go in better prepared which would prevent this disaster from happening in the first place.


How "better prepared" and presumably applied to every drilling rig in the world of which there are thousands. There are 2,000 in the Gulf of Mexico alone.
Like I said, don't cut costs.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Aug, 2010 12:48 pm
@Caroline,
Quote:
hardly the same scale as ploughing a field is it, what is your point exactly?


That millions of fields are ploughed every year to bring your food. Millions--every year. Not once in a blue moon.

One of your supporters on this thread goes out and shoots wildlife and has cleaned seafood, as he called it, out of the bow thrusters of his boat after a jaunt on the ocean. Dollops of crushed little, delicate creatures.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Aug, 2010 12:51 pm
@Caroline,
Quote:
Like I said, don't cut costs.


Are you kidding? It's whinge and whine in the USA when gas goes up a few cents. Look at the signs outside every gas station. Here as well.
Caroline
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Aug, 2010 12:55 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

Quote:
Like I said, don't cut costs.


Are you kidding? It's whinge and whine in the USA when gas goes up a few cents. Look at the signs outside every gas station. Here as well.
I'm sorry I don't understand your point you're trying to get across?
0 Replies
 
Zetherin
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Aug, 2010 01:06 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Your casual disregard of this, in the name of keeping the oil flowing, doesn't reflect well upon you.

You're too emotionally invested in this issue and conversation.
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Is it your position that we should keep doing extremely dangerous things, for which there is no way to stop accidents when they happen, just so that we don't lose jobs?

What makes you believe that drilling for oil is an extremely dangerous thing? Because there have been oil spills in the past? Is driving a car to you an extremely dangerous thing? There have been tens of thousands more car accidents than there have been oil spills, so I suppose your answer to that is yes.
0 Replies
 
Caroline
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Aug, 2010 01:08 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

That millions of fields are ploughed every year to bring your food. Millions--every year. Not once in a blue moon.
Oh I see, well yes over farming is a problem, we are killing the land but not a real threat to the extinction of animals so I don't see your point still, sorry.
spendius wrote:
One of your supporters on this thread goes out and shoots wildlife and has cleaned seafood, as he called it, out of the bow thrusters of his boat after a jaunt on the ocean. Dollops of crushed little, delicate creatures.
I'm not sure what to do with this information really, I don't hunt animals but I'm not about to get in someones face because they do but I have been partial to bit of seafood fresh out of the ocean now that you ask. I think the best thing to do is ask them to justify it not me, it's not my place to really is it.
Caroline
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Aug, 2010 02:18 pm
@Caroline,
I'm off now guys thanks for your input I really enjoyed it.
 

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