33
   

Our planet is being destroyed, does anybody care?

 
 
Caroline
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Aug, 2010 06:10 am
@wayne,
wayne wrote:

It seems that in America the only thing that motivates action is profit. When conservation becomes profitable then we will see action.
Which is why I think it's a good idea.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Aug, 2010 06:36 am
@Caroline,
Same old story. Profit for who? What about profit in terms of competition between the contending states? Individuals and individual companies are a minor matter.

More power to the UN is one way but is it possible? When it comes to "damage to the planet" one country is neither here nor there.
Caroline
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Aug, 2010 06:42 am
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

Same old story. Profit for who?
Profit for the capitalists.
spendius wrote:
What about profit in terms of competition between the contending states?
I'm not sure what you mean, could you expand a bit please?

spendius wrote:
More power to the UN is one way but is it possible?
Yes but only if it's not corruptible, (which it is), but it can be done.
spendius wrote:
When it comes to "damage to the planet" one country is neither here nor there.
I'm not sure what you mean, could you be more specific please? Thanks.
wayne
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Aug, 2010 06:44 am
@Caroline,
Caroline wrote:

wayne wrote:

It seems that in America the only thing that motivates action is profit. When conservation becomes profitable then we will see action.
Which is why I think it's a good idea.


Yes, it is a good idea, the problem lies in how best to legislate change.
The best solutions probably lie with personal choice. The best avenue towards facilitating personal choice is education.
K/A is absolutely correct that extremism only hurts the cause.
If we are to educate effectively, there needs to be a real effort made to be objective and practical about it.
I do believe that there are many people attempting to do just that.
Caroline
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Aug, 2010 06:51 am
@wayne,
wayne wrote:

Caroline wrote:

wayne wrote:

It seems that in America the only thing that motivates action is profit. When conservation becomes profitable then we will see action.
Which is why I think it's a good idea.


wayne wrote:
Yes, it is a good idea, the problem lies in how best to legislate change.
How come? is it because it's complicated?
wayne wrote:
The best solutions probably lie with personal choice. The best avenue towards facilitating personal choice is education.
Yes indeed, I agree, education is normally a good place to start when addressing issues.
wayne wrote:
K/A is absolutely correct that extremism only hurts the cause.
Yes indeed because things don't get done/sorted.
wayne wrote:
If we are to educate effectively, there needs to be a real effort made to be objective and practical about it.
I do believe that there are many people attempting to do just that.

Great news, I hope they are successful, is there much chance of that? oops it seems I've got the quoting a bit wrong, well my reply is there.
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Aug, 2010 07:32 am
@Zetherin,
Zetherin wrote:

The real tragedy is that thousands of gallons of one of our most precious commodities was wasted! All that poor, poor black gold gone, lots even washing up on shorelines. Horrific.
Random Article wrote:
However, it also must account for damages that may not be clear right away, such as if a fishery never recovers.

I suppose some people may have to change their diets then. Not a problem, we'll just butcher more cows. Don't worry folks, we'll keep the protein comin'!


I see now that you are not really serious.
0 Replies
 
Caroline
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Aug, 2010 07:37 am
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

Same old story. Profit for who? What about profit in terms of competition between the contending states?
What about it? Do you think it won't work if the countries are competing for profit? I think it will, it would be great that they fight over who is not going to pollute the most, make a nice change. Um is that what you mean?
0 Replies
 
Caroline
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Aug, 2010 07:43 am
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

When it comes to "damage to the planet" one country is neither here nor there.
You mean they don't really care about it?
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Aug, 2010 07:45 am
@Caroline,
Quote:
Profit for the capitalists.


That's too easy. It turned out the BP's dividend made up 12% of pensions. We are all involved. Denigrating capitalists is just a way of absolving yourself. I have not the slightest doubt that you would be at Royal Ascot for five days in different kits if you had the chance.

Quote:
I'm not sure what you mean, could you expand a bit please?


China and India, and others, are not listening to your utopian schemes. They see those schemes as a means to hold them back. They use cheap energy i.e. dirty energy and the bargain hunters can't get enough. The Olympic Games in China was powered by coal and it was lapped up.

Have a listen to Dylan's Union Sundown sometime.
Caroline
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Aug, 2010 08:16 am
@spendius,
Quote:
Profit for the capitalists.


spendius wrote:
That's too easy. It turned out the BP's dividend made up 12% of pensions. We are all involved.
Yes I know and I wouldn't absolve myself, I know we are all involved, shareholders for eg.
spendius wrote:
I have not the slightest doubt that you would be at Royal Ascot for five days in different kits if you had the chance.
Moi? Me? Are you suggesting I choose consumerism over the environment, get real! Not if I had to make a choice between the two then, ahem. Although there are plenty who do, it's just too tempting and irresistible for some people, wrong path to take though for a number of good reasons including ones that benefit the individual far more than consumerism.
spendius wrote:
China and India, and others, are not listening to your utopian schemes.
Yes they are the real bastards. Btw have you seen what they do to dolphins, horrendous!
spendius wrote:
They use cheap energy i.e. dirty energy and the bargain hunters can't get enough.
Can they not be bargained with, again a solution that satisfies environmentalist and a profit for them. Nothing is impossible but I haven't given it a lot of thought.
spendius wrote:
Have a listen to Dylan's Union Sundown sometime.
Who, I will try to find it on youtube sometime, thanks, could you tell me the gist of it, if you want?
0 Replies
 
kennethamy
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Aug, 2010 08:18 am
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

Quote:
Profit for the capitalists.


That's too easy. It turned out the BP's dividend made up 12% of pensions. We are all involved. Denigrating capitalists is just a way of absolving yourself. I have not the slightest doubt that you would be at Royal Ascot for five days in different kits if you had the chance.

Quote:
I'm not sure what you mean, could you expand a bit please?


China and India, and others, are not listening to your utopian schemes. They see those schemes as a means to hold them back. They use cheap energy i.e. dirty energy and the bargain hunters can't get enough. The Olympic Games in China was powered by coal and it was lapped up.

Have a listen to Dylan's Union Sundown sometime.


Well, China and India don't count, because, after all, they are not the West, and they can do anything they please, since they are not evil (capitalist) and the West is evil (capitalist). Don't you know that? I keep telling people that this a a religious controversy, and it hasn't anything much to do with the environment.
Caroline
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Aug, 2010 08:21 am
@kennethamy,
kennethamy wrote:

Well, China and India don't count, because, after all, they are not the West, and they can do anything they please, since they are not evil, and the West is evil. Don't you know that?
And your point is.......?
kennethamy
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Aug, 2010 08:26 am
@Caroline,
Caroline wrote:

kennethamy wrote:

Well, China and India don't count, because, after all, they are not the West, and they can do anything they please, since they are not evil, and the West is evil. Don't you know that?
And your point is.......?


That, as I said in the same post, this is a religious controversy. It is about good and evil. It is not about the environment which is only the ostensible topic.
Caroline
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Aug, 2010 08:38 am
@kennethamy,
No it's not it's about countries polluting the earth, hard facts, not myths about good and evil I know what you mean though, but come on that's a backward argument and cant be used as as excuse to **** up our world for good can it, not realistically. Good point though.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Aug, 2010 09:10 am
@kennethamy,
Quote:
I keep telling people that this a a religious controversy.


I accept that it is too. But what a can of worms that is.
Caroline
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Aug, 2010 09:18 am
@spendius,
What do you mean by religious controversy, I'm really tired which is why I'm a bit dim and how does it tie in with environmental issues? And how is it a can of worms? Thanks.
0 Replies
 
kennethamy
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Aug, 2010 09:19 am
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

Quote:
I keep telling people that this a a religious controversy.


I accept that it is too. But what a can of worms that is.


And that shows it is a religious controversy between the Global Warming believers (on the side of Good) and the Deniers (on the side of Evil, and certainly against polar bears).
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Sun 1 Aug, 2010 09:34 am
@kennethamy,
kennethamy wrote:

But the panic was not the doing of the oil spill. It reminds me of Obama's panic in ordering oil drilling to stop for 6 months. Luckily, the courts did not panic, and stopped him. In fact, in reminds me a little of the panic of the government, the media, and the environmentalists. Lesson. Don't panic.


That wasn't a panicky move, it was a smart one - for the gusher in the gulf revealed that nobody actually had an adequate plan for dealing with deep-water spills. Why should we go forward with dangerous activities, that we know for a fact we don't have the capability to stop if something goes wrong?

You have an opinion, but no facts to back it up. It seems more based in ideology than reality. I would suggest that you go spend some time in the regions which are going to be hard-hit by this spill and then come back and tell us that it's no big deal...

Cycloptichorn
kennethamy
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Aug, 2010 09:57 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:

kennethamy wrote:

But the panic was not the doing of the oil spill. It reminds me of Obama's panic in ordering oil drilling to stop for 6 months. Luckily, the courts did not panic, and stopped him. In fact, in reminds me a little of the panic of the government, the media, and the environmentalists. Lesson. Don't panic.



You have an opinion, but no facts to back it up. It seems more based in ideology than reality. I would suggest that you go spend some time in the regions which are going to be hard-hit by this spill and then come back and tell us that it's no big deal...

Cycloptichorn


You think that from the fact that there was one accident which caused an oil spill, that drilling is dangerous enough to justify closing down all oil drilling in the entire Gulf? Do you think that is also true of automobile accidents. So that if there is a bad auto accident in Mississippi, no driving should be allowed in Mississippi? And why then only in the Gulf. Unless there is something special about drilling in the Gulf, why not in the whole United States?

It is just blatant nonsense. Obama was, of course, not personally panicked. Presumably he saw it was nonsense. But he was politically panicked. His poll numbers were dropping, and he hope to slow it down by showing how much he cared. Indeed, why close down driving in Mississippi? Why not the whole United States?
That wasn't a panicky move, it was a smart one - for the gusher in the gulf revealed that nobody actually had an adequate plan for dealing with deep-water spills. Why should we go forward with dangerous activities, that we know for a fact we don't have the capability to stop if something goes wrong?

In any case, how would seeing how the oil spill affected people have anything to do with assessing whether it was dangerous to continue drilling? Nothing at all, is the answer. More sentimental rubbish.
Caroline
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Aug, 2010 10:08 am
@kennethamy,


kennethamy wrote:
You think that from the fact that there was one accident which caused an oil spill, that drilling is dangerous enough to justify closing down all oil drilling in the entire Gulf?
That's not the meaning I understood. It was one BIG accident that killed a lot of wildlife, it just shows that we cut costs and don't care about the consequences for the sake of a buck, shame on them.

kennethamy wrote:
why close down driving in Mississippi? Why not the whole United States?
Why not go in better prepared which would prevent this disaster from happening in the first place.
 

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